Trying CDN'S Help

[soy327]

Hi all, I've been waiting for a week to get the CDN wick from JBN. Got them today(my 1oz freebie Mexican vanilla OMG), anyway I've been using the accu-soy 10 from Swans, in a 3" status jar, CD 14 a little hang up on the sides (1/2 way burned down), small mushroom, Sweet pumpkin spice from peak 2 drops orange 1 drop brown. I wanted to try the CDN's I've been reading about. Where should I start? How much hotter do these burn? and I hope this isn't a dumb question but here it goes......If I have a wick that mushrooms should I wick down or up? and why,:confused: This is probably a question for Stella or Top.:yay::yay:or anyone that has been doing this longer than I. I keep going back and forth is the smaller wick drawing to much to get the fuel clogging the wick or should I have a bigger wick for the color and FO content so it won't clog up oh 1oz pp. BW in one, 1/4 oz, but no BW in the other one. Stella I did pour to the top!!!

I'm making my husband and a three dogs crazy:laugh2::laugh2:

[topofmurrayhill]

If only there were rules for these things it would be so much easier.

For mushrooming you can wick up or down. One of those might work better or it might not. Sometimes the wick is too small, sometimes too large, and sometimes the wick size isn't the problem per se.

The way you learn as much as possible and avoid confusion is to never change more than one variable at a time in your candles. Try the CDN in the exact same size as the CD so you can clearly see the difference in the burn without mixing it up by changing the size also. Then you can go from there.

You may not see the exact same difference that someone else reports. The two wicks are the same except for the salts they're soaked in during manufacturing. The difference in performance depends on your wax and sometimes the fragrance.

A lot of people get good results from CDN in soy. I didn't see a big difference when I was testing them. I have compared LX versus LX NST2 (a comparable chemical treatment) in pillars and the NST2 wicks burned crappy. They didn't curl enough and mushroomed a lot. You just have to test and see.

Edited November 14, 2009 by topofmurrayhill

[soy327]

Top, thanks for the reply, I also am wondering about the curl are the curls suppose to face each other or go opposite on a dbl. Am I making sense with the question? When I wick a single the side that doesn't have the curl facing it takes longer to pool. So I have one candle Coconut wax same jar same everything I dbl wicked, the wicks curled opposite (one points to the north and the other to the south) are you with me? and both side melt the same. So how do you find the flat side that curls out, I can't feel it with my finger.:laugh2::laugh2:Am I all wet about this?:confused:

Linda

[topofmurrayhill]

It's good that you're paying attention to that.

I would put the wicks close together (maybe an inch or a touch more depending on the size of the container) to keep the pool round, and point the curl outwards. That means the side of the wick with the braid pattern pointing up should be on the outside.

^

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It's not always the flatter side. That just depends on which way the wick goes through the waxing machine, so it doesn't tell you anything about the curl. The wick is actually flat on both sides if you melt the wax off. But look at the pattern and you'll know which way it curls.

[soy327]

I'm going to have to get a magnifying glass for this (another chandlers tool):laugh2::laugh2:I might have to look closer at that ^^ to figure that out. But I think I get it. Thanks, I was just trying to get that single wick look. I'm trying to hard, and being a perfectionist. I am also testing my other favorite wax ecosoya advanced and it's burning great maybe need to wick down one (single wick) full, 1/8' mp in 2 1/2 hrs. Working on the HT using 2 tsp CO maybe need to add more CO.

The coconut wax is doing great I started with HTP 105 :mad: went to HTP 126 singles.:rolleyes2 now started with DBLhtp 93 :smiley2:went to HTP 83:yay:decided to test the waters and have a HTP 73:yay::yay:I think I'm getting there. Is OCD a good thing or a bad thing????

[naomiheck]

I have found that a little OCD can be a good thing when testing, as long as your family doesn't depend on you to cook, clean, buy groceries, work outside the home, or anything else for that matter.

Naomi

[soy327]

O.K., I have been testing all weekend. I have the cb advanced my other favorite wax up against the accu-soy. So here are my 2 pics after a power burn day. The advanced is the 1st and the accusoy is the 2nd 4hrs burn time on these. The one on the right (in picture 2) I burned since friday night 3 burns and pulled the wicks, replaced with a cd 16 and it's better, thats why it's not full. I plan on doing another with the advanced and a cd 16 this week. For the final answer. CD or CDN :confused:

[ATTACH]18286[/ATTACH]

Edited November 16, 2009 by soy327

[Stella1952]

You might need to wick up or down, depending on how things balance out for your combo. That's why it's good to have an assortment of sizes to try...

CDs & CDNs burn hotter on the curl side, so unless you place them to compensate for this, you will have to recenter the wick or turn the candle to keep the melt pool perfectly centered. I twist my wicks a few turns, but Top pointed out that this might change the way the wick burns, so I am testing some untwisted sisters to see if it makes a difference with mine... So far, haven't noticed any difference except I have to futz around with the wick more to keep the MP exactly concentric...

Who's got OCD? :laugh2:

[soy327]

I think I do:laugh2::laugh2::laugh2:have OCD. We all gotta have something.

Edited November 16, 2009 by soy327

[Stella1952]

We all gotta have something

Isn't everyone like that? :embarasse:laugh2::laugh2:

*...step on a crack, break jo' mama's back...*

[soy327]

The CDN seems to get a little muchroom on it, But no mushroom on the CD. So please bear with me what is the difference between the two I can live with a little tiny mushroom, but don't want a black jar. in the end. The jars seem to be burning nice just a hair of hang up.

Thanks for all these reply's I have learned so much in the i month I've been on the forum.

Linda:rolleyes2

Edited November 20, 2009 by soy327

[Stella1952]

The CDN seems to get a little muchroom on it, But no mushroom on the CD...what is the difference between the two

The CDN is treated with chemicals to resist oxidation; the CD is not. For more information, search the forums.

[soy327]

Stella, I have searched the forum and obviously, My question has not been answered or I wouldn't be asking. Maybe I need to read some raves between you and Top and I might get the info I'm looking for. I posted the pics of my testers and have got no input on the burn, if you don't want to help that's fine don't answer. We new ones are probably still trying to master the art of searching for things that go on for miles. :p:p

Edited November 20, 2009 by soy327

[Stella1952]

Stella, I have searched the forum and obviously, My question has not been answered or I wouldn't be asking. Maybe I need to read some raves between you and Top and I might get the info I'm looking for. I posted the pics of my testers and have got no input on the burn, if you don't want to help that's fine don't answer. We new ones are probably still trying to master the art of searching for things that go on for miles. :p:p

I answered your basic question. I think it's asked at least monthly! Entering the search term "CDN wicks" yields 8 pages - there are at least 6 discussions of those wicks that give further resources for Stabilo series wicks (CDs & CDNs). We aren't typing encyclopedias here - you can learn more by searching for information here or even reading other places, like the manufacturer's website, wick distributor sites, etc.

I posted the pics of my testers and have got no input on the burn, if you don't want to help that's fine don't answer

If you are referring to the photos in post #7, I cannot tell much of anything from those photos... the candles are in two different containers - I would not expect them to burn the same. There's really nothing much to say...

For comparing two wicks, you have to use the same everything - wick size, FO, container, wax amount, etc. - otherwise you don't know if the difference in the two candles made a difference in the burn or whether it was the wicks themselves!!! :rolleyes2

[topofmurrayhill]

Hi Linda. Here's a quick summary of what these chemical treatments are about.

All types of wicks are soaked in a solution of chemical salts so that they will work as candle wicks. Without this soaking, they would just burn away instead of wicking the wax properly.

With some types of wick, the manufacturer offers more than one kind of chemical treatment that you can choose depending on what kind of candle you're making. For instance, you can buy CD wicking from Heinz with a special treatment they call KST (in other words, CDN wicks) or LX wicking from Wedo with a treatment they call NST 2.

Both of these treatments are intended for candles that have a high amount of free fatty acids that might cause regular wicking to overtrim or otherwise deteriorate too quickly while burning. I think the original intention was for candles containing a large amount of free stearic acid, like certain kinds of pillar candles. It can also help with certain FOs in highly fragranced candles.

Typical soy container waxes these days do NOT contain high amounts of free fatty acids. It's usually close to zero. It might be different with certain pillar blends, but generally these waxes are not what the chemical treatments in question were intended for. Nevertheless, some people say that they get better results with these particular wick treatments in soy wax. Your mileage may vary. The only way to know what works best in your candle is to try it.

I have not done extensive comparisons between alternative wick treatments, but I don't think there's anything unusual in the results you're seeing. When you use a wick with a chemical treatment that's not matched well to the mixture it's burning, you can have problems like that. I have definitely seen cases where wicks with this kind of treatment didn't curl properly and mushroomed excessively.

So apart from all the technical stuff, the bottom line is that you should use whatever wick works best for you. CD is a great wick. There's nothing about CDN that says it should automatically be the thing you use in a soy container. When people say they get a larger melt pool with it, it could just be because it mushrooms. A shroomy wick always makes a larger melt pool, but I'd still rather use a wick that burns cleanly.

[naomiheck]

I am in the process of comparing CD's and CDN's, and I'm finding what Top says to be true. I use my own parasoy blend. In some candles, CD's do better (less mushrooming), and in others, the CDN's do better. Drives me crazy that every candle is different!

Naomi

[earthfriendly]

Stella, I have searched the forum and obviously, My question has not been answered or I wouldn't be asking. Maybe I need to read some raves between you and Top and I might get the info I'm looking for. I posted the pics of my testers and have got no input on the burn, if you don't want to help that's fine don't answer. We new ones are probably still trying to master the art of searching for things that go on for miles. :p:p

:rolleyes2 WOW!! Soy, you were a bit harsh with Stella. She and Top have been very helpful in answering your questions. JMO

[soy327]

Earhfrienly, I agree that Top and Stella have been helpful, more Top taking the time to explain deeper than Stella. It seems to me that Stella is tired of answering the same questions over and over so her answer is to say"search the forum there is a gold mine of information"I have been through this forum on many subjects, and have also seen that I am not the only one that gets harsh with Stella, or the only one Stella gets harsh with either.

You are right I was a little harsh, That post hit me at a down time candles that are burning fine and all of a sudden they take a dive it's a let down, and I have been reading alot here searching for information, some people (Top for instance) can explain things in a way I understand, and thanks TOP I appreciate that very much. You take the time to explain things.

Stella-As for my pics the interlude jar I was testing had advanced in it for a test for that jar, the other jar had accusoy 10 for a seperate test in that jar, maybe I didn't explain that correctly or maybe we just have a different way of testing. I understand I have only been doing this for about a year, but I have had alot of outside guidance and suggestions from different people at seminars I've attended etc so I'm not going at this totally blind. I do appreciate constructive critism but not the harsh quick to judge stuff I've gotten. You have misunderstood things I've posted and taken sentences in my post in a totally different manner in which they were intended or maybe I have not explained things well enough. Anyway Stella I apoligize for being a little harsh on that post. It's not like me to be that way. :rolleyes2

Linda

P.S. I'm not giving up!!:laugh2: