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Glass Glow palm wicking problem & question.


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I am hoping that perhaps someone can answer this question for me as it it beginning to drive me crazy.

I think that Stella uses this wax, but I do not know too many others who do.

With the summer fast approaching here (it was 100 here one day this week), soy isn't too much fun to work with, so we are currently experimenting with the Glass Glow palm for our containers.

We use mainly 10 oz apothecary jars for the bulk of our stock as the larger jars just dont seem to sell here at all. We are also using some plain old jelly jars for a more primitive line that we are doing.

The jelly jars are fine and I pretty much have those wicked to the point where I am happy with them, however they are not going to be to everyone's liking, hence the reason for also carrying out apothecary line into the palm wax.

They are standard apothecary jars, approximately 4" diameter in the main part of the jar with a 3" mouth. Current fragrance selection is from NG, with a few local oils as well. We use CDN wicks for these jars.

I would really like to be able to single wick these, although this is proving to be extremely difficult. Using a CDN 24 in the heavier oils is going nowhere near forming a full melt pool and just tunneling. I can go as high as a CDN 28 if I am going to persevere with the single wicking. I can also double wick if I really have to, however I would usually avoid that option like the plague.

I have just poured 4 more jars using to light and 2 heavier oils and double wicked those with 2 x CDN 14's and 2 x CDN 16's respectively. Will let cure for 24 hours and then begin to test.

Has anyone managed to successfully single wick these jars with this wax or is double wicking the only way to go with these, besides a smaller diameter jar.

Any advice much appreciated.

Cheers

Richard

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Hi,

I believe double wicking is the only way to go with that size of jar, especially with the Glass glow palm. I put 2 cd 5 in a 3" round, and tested the cd 5's in a 4" Victorian square apothhacary with a 3" opening but would got to 2 cd 6's. I really like the glass glow palm, and will be making more for the holidays.

Where do you get cdn's how do they compare to cd's?

Linda

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I also use this wax and never found a single wick that worked to my liking in the 16 oz version of this jar (similar diameter, just taller). I know some people will say I just didn't "try hard enough" but I don't care. Double wicking it with ECO 8 or 10 depending on the scent works beautifully for me so that is what I went with and am very happy with the results. Because I use the ECO series wicks with this wax/jar I can't help with the right size but hopefully Stella or someone else that uses them might be able to give you guidance on a starting point for the CDN wicks.

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When trying to wick palm wax of any kind, one must first realize that the burn characteristics of palm wax are very different from any other wax. What makes it so different is that there is a very short period of time between the liquid state of the wax and the solid state. There is virtually no "soft" time. It naturally "tunnels."

Using the wax's basic properties to wick is far easier than fighting them. A good example is wicking palm pillars. Since one cannot "hug" the pillar because of the expansion and hardness of the wax and its tendency to "blow out" before being totally consumed, it's far easier to wick pillars to leave a shell which can be illuminated with a tealight or electric tea light after it has burned down.

Many chandlers do not pay enough attention IMO to matching container shape & dimension with the properties of the wax they are using. To successfully wick container palm wax, it takes more heat to melt the sides cleanly because there is no softening of the wax to allow it to slip down the sides the way soy or paraffin wax would.

To single wick a 4" palm wax container, one needs to look at the larger wicks. Again, the shell does not melt off until the candle has burned well down into the container. You have to give it a chance, even though the flame may get to looking rather feeble at some points... I would try a CDN 22 to start and realize that I may need to step up to a 24 or even 26 to get a clean burn. I routinely wick 6" pillars (leaving a 1/2" shell) with no problem. While pillars and containers are quite different, with palm wax they are more similar because the shell acts as a container as the wick burns down into the candle. As the candle burns down, the rate of consumption appears to slow because the sides begin melting, one drop at a time.

There is nothing WRONG with not offering certain waxes in certain container shapes/sizes or fragrances! If big containers, heavy oils, etc. are gonna give ya fits, you do not HAVE to offer them! Because customers like to decorate with candles, they want showy containers, but our job is to give them showy containers with candles in them that actually burn well! Sometimes these goals are mutually exclusive... Trying to make everything work in every size and fragrance can scatter a chandler's energy needlessly. I always weigh how much of a demand is made for certain items and allot my energy accordingly. If I sell very few big containers and even fewer of those are certain difficult fragrances, why would I run my head into a wall over and over simply to offer an item that accounts for an extremely small percentage of my sales? Sure, I might tackle something difficult for a custom order (which would be priced accordingly), but I would not include such an item in my in-stock lineup.

One could also consider wicking large diameter containers the same way I wick pillars - with the intention of leaving a crystal shell on the inside and reilluminating with a tea light or electric tea light (my personal preference) after the interior wax has been burned out.

If I did consider multiple wicks in a round container, I would use 3, not 2 because a triangle burns in more of a circle pattern (all melt pools are circular) than a straight line (more like a rectangle rounded at both ends).

Where do you get cdn's how do they compare to cd's?
Linda, this has been frequently discussed and the topics are in the threads for researching. CDs are Stabilo and CDNs are Stabilo KST. The name was changed by the manufacturer some time ago but people refuse to give it up... ;) Basically, they burn very similarly because they both begin with exactly the same rolled wicking. The difference is the KST is impregnated (soaked) with certain chemicals which are designed to resist oxidation caused by the higher acid content of veggie waxes. IMHO, the CDNs burn slightly more efficiently, perhaps due to the chemical treatment in the wicking. The manufacturer's site explains this process better than I can. The difference is not a whole size step - more like a half step, ie. a CDN 14 might burn like a CD 15 (if there were such a thing). This is very handy when wicking heavier oils.

As for where to buy CDNs, JBN carries them in sizes 8-22. They offer a sample pack of several of each size, which I found to be a good value. Try some and see what you think... :)

Outside of sizes 8-22 (2-7 and 24-30), the only source is to request samples from Wickit. Unfortunately, if one finds a size they use frequently in that range, one has to order a LARGE quantity because Wickit is a distributor, not a supplier... Wicks Unlimited, another distributor, also carries them in sizes 2-22. Samples can be requested, but the minimum order quantity is, again, quite large.

I wish more suppliers would stock them in the entire size range, but so far, it ain't happened. :undecided :rolleyes2

Edited by Stella1952
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Thanks for all of the information. Yes I did consider triple wicking, perhaps for a nano second before discarding the idea. Double wicking is a total PITA, let alone triple wicking.

I have some CDN 26's and 28's here which I may just try to see how they go. If all goes well then great, and if not, I guess those particular oils will just have to go into the plain old jelly jars.

The problem with that is that here in Australia, prim is just not known or understoood by too many people, so despite all the deco making the jar very prim, people here will just see a plain old jar and wonder why we want to charge so much for it. Ahhhh such is life............

Richard

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I am hoping that perhaps someone can answer this question for me as it it beginning to drive me crazy.

I think that Stella uses this wax, but I do not know too many others who do.

With the summer fast approaching here (it was 100 here one day this week), soy isn't too much fun to work with, so we are currently experimenting with the Glass Glow palm for our containers.

We use mainly 10 oz apothecary jars for the bulk of our stock as the larger jars just dont seem to sell here at all. We are also using some plain old jelly jars for a more primitive line that we are doing.

The jelly jars are fine and I pretty much have those wicked to the point where I am happy with them, however they are not going to be to everyone's liking, hence the reason for also carrying out apothecary line into the palm wax.

They are standard apothecary jars, approximately 4" diameter in the main part of the jar with a 3" mouth. Current fragrance selection is from NG, with a few local oils as well. We use CDN wicks for these jars.

I would really like to be able to single wick these, although this is proving to be extremely difficult. Using a CDN 24 in the heavier oils is going nowhere near forming a full melt pool and just tunneling. I can go as high as a CDN 28 if I am going to persevere with the single wicking. I can also double wick if I really have to, however I would usually avoid that option like the plague.

I have just poured 4 more jars using to light and 2 heavier oils and double wicked those with 2 x CDN 14's and 2 x CDN 16's respectively. Will let cure for 24 hours and then begin to test.

Has anyone managed to successfully single wick these jars with this wax or is double wicking the only way to go with these, besides a smaller diameter jar.

Any advice much appreciated.

Cheers

Richard

Why don't you just let the wick leave about 1/2 inch of wax all around. So as it burns it will show the crystal effect. Then suggest a t-lite to add when it's burned all the way down. Soy t-lights burn so nice, I use an LX 8 wick and GF435 wax, they burn about 7 hrs or more.

I can't help with 4" jars but with the 3" I use a CD16. At first it leaves some wax but catches up on down the burn. Still has a film of wax on the jar but not much. Love Raspberry Zinger from NG in this wax... good luck

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Thanks Sharon.

In a 3" JJ I am using CDN 14 and CDN 16's which seem to work pretty well so far. They start slow and then do catch up to the point where the jar sides are totally clean, which is nice. I am getting 50+ hours burn time in these jars.

Just about to put a pic up in the gallery so you can see just how unexciting these jars are, (well to most aussies they will be as they don't understand prim.....LOL)

Cheers

Richard

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Richard drives me nuts.

Picture me constantly slapping myself on the forehead and making growling noises.

I've been SAYING kinda this sorta thing to him.

Palm wax just isn't SOY wax....it WILL burn differently!

Not that I am by ANY means the experienced wicker (or experienced anything) here...not at all! But I said to him that it looks kinda cool with that wax on the sides of the jar and the "glow" effect.

I mean after all....isn't it why they call it "glass glow" palm?

Anyway, I'm just glad he's got you ladies here to listen to.

In the meantime I'll just keep hitting myself on the head and growling while he has hissy fits all over the place.

Tracy

Edited by Desertrose
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If it helps at all I have been having great success with CS' CSN wicks in my 3" salsa jars. Getting a great clean burn and wax consumption. I had no idea that palm leaves a cleaner looking glass when the sides burn down than soy did.

But I had a heck of a time finding wicks that would burn clean even a 3" jar. I imagine if I tried a 4" like an apothecary I would do the double wick.

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Richard drives me nuts.

That's his job! :laugh2::lipsrseal:tiptoe:

The consistency of liquid palm wax isn't the same as soy or paraffin; the density/hardness isn't the same, etc.

I had no idea that palm leaves a cleaner looking glass when the sides burn down than soy did.

Because palm wax is so thin and runny when liquid, it DOES leave a cleaner jar than soy, when wicked just right... it's like the difference between a glass from which you drank milk as opposed to ginger ale. The milk glass simply has more residue because the stuff is thicker and greasier. This runniness is what makes blowouts in palm pillars sooooo messy as opposed to paraffin or soy blowouts... which also is why I don't test burn pillars on top of my television any more...:embarasse:lipsrseal

I like the different avenues one can take with palm wax. Because it will naturally form an "everlasting" candle (without the glass thingy in the middle), it opens the door to other marketing possibilities - a kit with a pillar and an electric tea light, for example. With the shells left by either containers or pillars, one has to be careful with heat to preserve the crystal pattern of the shell - that's why I went to the electric tea lights instead of "real" ones - the heat from the tea light sometimes causes the shell to heat up and change (or eliminate) the crystal pattern. Of course, if you take the "no crystals" and/or layered route, the changes from heat are far less pronounced. :tongue2:

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