soy327 Posted October 19, 2009 Share Posted October 19, 2009 Hi all,I have some soy oil I wonder in the regular soy wax if it would help smooth out the top on the other soy waxes? candlewics 120, 415 and 464, and even the ecosoya 135 etc? Ecosoya advanced says it's 98% soy and 2% botanicle oils what do you suppose those botanical oils are? Has anyone experimented?Linda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stella1952 Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 None of the manufacturers have defined "botanical oils" so your guess is as good as mine! Try it and see... Generally speaking, I would think that using a different oil (since soy oil is what soy wax is made from) to smooth & stabilize the texture would yield better results. The issue isn't how much oil is in a wax, but whether the crystal phase formation properties have been modified. I like USA best for this purpose. HTH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soy327 Posted October 20, 2009 Author Share Posted October 20, 2009 Hi, Thanks for the reply. If USA means universal soy additive I have tried it. May be I will experiment with it again. Though I hate that is so close to the Holidays and I am still having issues. I have alot of different waxes here, ezsoy, 444, 415, 402, milenium blend, enchanted lights soy cottonseed blend,. I see from your postings that you are using the C3, I have 1 lb of it. I made candles with some I orderd 2 lbs wasn't working does the usa help. How much do you use? Do you use UV Stabilizer? If so how much? You would think I could find the right combination in the 10 months I've been doing this. The ecosoya advanced has come the closest to what I'm looking for and it sometimes gets little air bubbles on the sides of the jar. Frustrated in Colorado,Linda:mad: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuck_35550 Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 Unless you are determined to use 100% soy in your candles, why not add a small amount of paraffin? Have you tried coconut oil? What kind of problems are you having? No ct/ht, cracks, wet spots, ect. ? Pure soy is a real beast for some folks in high altitude areas. You might try to find out from other local chandlers what they are doing to make candles. HTH.Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireStarter Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 Pure soy is a real beast for some folks in high altitude areas. SteveYa I am so looking forward to retesting everything.. just moved from almost sea level to about 5500 feet. WOOOHOO!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soy327 Posted October 21, 2009 Author Share Posted October 21, 2009 I'm not sure why high altitude is such a problem, maybe I should stick with the palm wax. No I really don't want to use paraffin. It would defeat my whole purpose of somewhat natural candles. I think I am going to try to put a little soy oil in the mix. I have been reading other post what is soy lethicin is it the same thing as soy oil? What other vegetable stuff is out there, what about almond oil? I know a candle maker that makes very soft creamy soy candles and won't share (It's propietary). What a shame I am not even in his area.Linda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WillowBoo Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 I use the coconut oil and paraffin and get a smooth soy (My combo is mostly soy) Did you try crisco? Somewhere here there is something about crisco. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stella1952 Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 I don't envy your altitude testing, Firestarter! Ones locale has a lot to do with how candles burn! Mine are manufactured & tested in the deep Gulf South. They do not burn exactly the same in Oregon or Maine because of temperature & humidity differences, not to mention altitude (I live at a dizzying 19 feet above sea level!!!). Linda, the reason altitude makes a difference is the same as the different instructions for baking cakes at higher altitudes and the fact that water doesn't boil at exactly 212°F way up there... Many of us need to go back to science class! It's all smoke and mirrors to me, too - I just understand that it DOES make a difference!! And it's harder to breathe way up there... not as much oxygen... gasp... :laugh2:How much do you use? Do you use UV Stabilizer? If so how much? First, understand that ALL USA is not the same stuff! Because we are not allowed to know exactly WHAT this stuff is, it's a good idea to stick with what works & try other suppliers if you are not satisfied. USA can be used in different amounts... I use 1 tablespoonful per pound of C3. More (or less) might be useful for other waxes.UV additive is the same... it isn't ALL the same stuff! I ALWAYS use UV in every candle I make, regardless of whether I use dye, because it protects the colors from fading, changing and yellowing. I use 1/8 tsp. per pound of wax. Works for me. Understand that technique figures into making great soy candles. This isn't just melt & pour candlemaking! There is an art to melting, tempering, pouring and cooling that has nothing to do with ingredients!Experimenting at this point for Christmas sales is a non-starter. Do what works for you or pass on the sales this year. Customers should not be used as beta-testers (despite what Microsoft does...). This is why we caution folks to NOT be in a hurry to sell... what is soy lethicinLecithin is a soy-based emulsifier used in MANY different soy-based waxes. Google helps... I know a candle maker that makes very soft creamy soy candles and won't share (It's propietary).Well, IF I were wanting to make a soft, creamy candle (which I do not think is desirable, especially in my climate), I would not expect another chandler to give up their formula to me. After all, THEY put in the hours of testing, researching, etc. They did their homework and are under no obligation to simply give that hard-earned knowledge & experience away to others who want to take a short cut... It is in doing the research, experimentation, etc. that we gain the knowledge. Simply asking others doesn't gain one the understanding of what works and what doesn't... If folks do their own homework, they have a better understanding of the subject matter! Sharing ideas is one thing - giving away the formula people or companies worked to develop is quite another... The veggie forum here is absolutely FULL of great ideas and shared knowledge - all you have to do is mine the gold. About the "botanical oil" crap... I am sooooo sick of reading this kind of hype!!! What EXACTLY are these mysterious "botanical oils" I keep reading about? Do these magical substances have NAMES? There are a LOT of plants at the Botanical Gardens in New Orleans - I wonder if any of their oils are included in these wax blends? Banana Tree oils, azalea oils, eucalyptus oils, castor bean oil, bird of paradise plant oils? What??!!! Why the mystery? Is it so we won't discover that some of these oils are pretty ordinary and "botanical" just SOUNDS ever so much cooler? :rolleyes2:rolleyes2:rolleyes2bo·tan·i·cal (b-tn-kl) also bo·tan·ic (-tnk) adj.1. Of or relating to plants or plant life.2. Of or relating to the science of botany. n. A drug, medicinal preparation, or similar substance obtained from a plant or plants....From Free DictionaryI mean, that's pretty BROAD, don't y'all think? Using that definition, poison ivy oil IS a botanical oil... :rolleyes2 This is deliberate obfuscation by wax manufacturers and complete environmental marketing HORSESH*T. SHAME on the manufacturers, distributors, suppliers and chandlers who invent, parrot and hide behind this kind of manipulative nomenclature and hype, hoping that no one notices that the Emperor has no clothes!!! That kind of bullsh*t makes all veggie wax afficianados look like a bunch of brain-deficient idiots!! :rolleyes2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soy327 Posted October 22, 2009 Author Share Posted October 22, 2009 Hey Stella, Don't hold back tell us how you really feel. Thanks for the reply and advice.:laugh2: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stella1952 Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 Don't hold back tell us how you really feelGood thing I edited the long version of that particular rave...:embarasse:D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topofmurrayhill Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 I think those botanical oils are very ordinary. All we're looking for here is a contribution of fatty acids, nothing exotic, so the cheaper the better. I think palm oil might be a good example. And of course it's become common for some people to add their own "botanical oils" in the form of coconut.Where I differ with Stella is in demanding that the wax manufacturers nurture this bizarre obsession vegetable wax chandlers have developed over the constituents of wax blends. For instance, what percentage of a candle wax composition is a particular magical vegetable oil, like soybean.Americans are willing slaves to their corporate masters. The agri-business industry spends millions of dollars telling you how important it is to you and the world that you consume one of their crops. They must be delighted by their return on investment, to have created such fanatics on the basis of nothing.It's just candle wax. It doesn't matter what particular cheap vegetable oils it's made of. What matters is how it works.Oh wait, I forgot...even that doesn't matter as long as it comes from the soybean fields. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stella1952 Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 Oh wait, I forgot...even that doesn't matter as long as it comes from the soybean fields.Ummm... you forgot AMERICAN soybean fields tended by American farmers... :rolleyes2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topofmurrayhill Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 Ummm... you forgot AMERICAN soybean fields tended by American farmers... :rolleyes2Sorry, I did forget. We must very supportive of those Americans who own those field that stretch out for miles to the horizon over in Iowa. But let's not worry too much about the farmers who grow real food that doesn't require a factory to turn it into something. Who cares if everything in the produce aisle is imported from Mexico and South America. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soy327 Posted October 23, 2009 Author Share Posted October 23, 2009 Stella, I just want you to know I appreciate everybody's candor and help, didn't think I was starting a debate but it was cool to hear both sides. Think I'll go make a palm candle:cheesy2:.LOLIf I could figure out how to send a picture of this dream candle my candle making friend makes you might understand why I was pimping him. I don't need his recipe. Just wanted a tip. Can't blame a girl for trying:pAnyway it might take me some time but I'll get it.Struggling in Colorado, burr,burr, :confused:it's cold here,Linda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stella1952 Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 (edited) Keep trying - stick-to-it-ivness is how we learn and get where we want to go! Sooner or later, he may give up a tip or two... OR you might figure out how to concoct your own formula along the way...:yay: Maybe with olive oil or palm oil or grapeseed oil or sweet almond oil... the world is FULL of fatty acid-rich oils!Don't get me wrong - I LOVE soy wax and only make veggie wax candles. I just hate exaggerated lies people tell to sell them. The soy industry launched a campaign against palm oil producers recently... here's a slightly biased, but relatively factual account... http://www.alohabay.com/planet/soy_deception.htmlBig Soy is just as disgusting an industry as Big Oil and Big Finance... they're in it for the money and will do anything to convince people that we need to buy THEIR products ad infinitum!! They even put soy in canned TUNA forchrissakes!Despite the recent ads with the musical farm animal feed trucks bringing quality foods from Cargill to the little guys, Cargill, Archer-Daniels-Midland and others are pretty evil corporate giants. Having said that, the wax I choose to use was manufactured by Cargill (who still has a relationship with Elevance). Politics has its place, but one has to do the best one can when it comes to purchasing quality materials at an affordable price. Unfortunately, unless one lives within driving distance of one of those elusive organic soy wax producers, it isn't cost effective to order cases of wax from across the country. Nor is it very green...didn't think I was starting a debateOh heck - we've been arguing and pontificating about this stuff for years! The idea is for people TO hear different sides of issues so that they can make up their own minds and be better informed, unlike the poor saps who think they're getting something special from Glade candles that contain essential oils!!! demanding that the wax manufacturers nurture this bizarre obsession vegetable wax chandlers have developed over the constituents of wax blendsThey don't have to tell me percentages - but I DO think consumers have the right to know exactly WHAT INGREDIENTS the stuff they buy contains...Now. Back to my poison oak botanical oil research...:laugh2: Edited October 23, 2009 by Stella1952 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soy327 Posted October 23, 2009 Author Share Posted October 23, 2009 Stella,Have you heard of this company www.soyawax.com are they the same as cargill? Do you know anything about the container wax?Linda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stella1952 Posted October 24, 2009 Share Posted October 24, 2009 Phytowax was the original soy wax formula that Michael Richards patented and marketed in 1992 before Cargill bought the patent rights to his formula and formed their NatureWax division. In March 2008, Cargill partnered with Materia to form Elevance Renewable Sciences to produce & distrubute their NatureWax line of products. Lots of folks still swear the C1 formula was the best soy container wax and superior to C3, developed later. C1 contains palm wax.Here's a good little history of soy wax article...http://www.nohmcandles.com/soy-candle-history.aspxMore history from Cajun Candles...http://www.cajuncandles.com/soy-wax.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soy327 Posted October 28, 2009 Author Share Posted October 28, 2009 Stella,How is your poisn ivy/oak botanicle oil research going. I might be tryin that next:laugh2::laugh2:Linda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stella1952 Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 ummmm... pass the calamine lotion, please... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soy327 Posted October 28, 2009 Author Share Posted October 28, 2009 :laugh2::yay:I need a good laugh tonight SNOW 8-12":mad: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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