Attention GB 464 users

[dhmill]

I just ordered gb 464, I use cd, rrd and eco wicks... of the three , can you tell me if you have had good results with any of these wicks in the 464?

[naomiheck]

CDs and sometimes HTP's have worked well for me in straight 464. I would think the CDN's may be good too. I'm just starting to test them in a blend that's mostly 464, and it's going well.

Naomi

[moonshine]

I am brand new to the forum and to candlemaking....decided last winter that I was spending to much money on Yankee Candle tarts and little did I know- it was cheaper than trying it myself! but now I am hooked...and determined

I started right out with 464 and eco wicks like CS recommended and used the max 12% fragrance per pound (weighed) and my candles when burning were like greasy looking and the wicks would soot making the wax streak with black and the scent throw was not as amazing as the claims no matter what size wick. With the leftover wax I would pour it in tart molds and although I had to pop them in the freezer to get them out the scent throw was amazing- the burn your nose and make your eyes water strong that I DO want. I tried all different sizes of wicks in the candles and gave up and ordered the CB135. With this wax I used the LX wicks and tried the ECO as well and got a much better looking candle and the scent throw was good as well but still not as strong as what I am looking for and the tarts were not as strong.

So now I am back to 464 and I made the switch to PB/135 blend for tarts which do look better but they do not throw far and strong!

Any suggestions as to how to get this 464 to throw strong and far in a candle would be sooo much appreciated- I have read all the forums on this site and did order CD wicks to try but how do you determine what wick type and size to go with as a starting point?

Recommendations for tarts??? what wax has the best results for throwing scent far and strong?

Thanks so much

[annie123]

Wouldn't that be too much co? to what % of FO. I know that GB 464 can take up to 12 % but when I tried to up my fo load I got a mess...the top of the candle were sweating like crazy.

I add 2tsp's per pound of coconut oil, and they have great scent throw.

[TallTayl]

Hiya! I use 464/ECO Soya PB blended at 75/25 and have amazing, long lasting throw with a nice firm texture that holds up to wear and tear. I don't worry about frosting since I shrink wrap them with a cute label on the top.

With this blend I found I don't need load up to your level of FO. FWIW. I don't have my notes handy to quote the actual FO load, but I calculated what I needed based on 6% fragrance load for the PB and 10% for the 464. It comes to something like 9% total - which some may still consider high but it works for me.

[Catlover]

I get great throw with most all fo's in 464 by using a 9% load--I've gone a bit higher with the really light scents, but generally that's plenty. More is just a waste. I DO let my candles cure for at least a week before burning--5 days minimum, 7 days preferable. This makes a huge difference for me. I know it's hard to wait, but it's worth it IMHO!

CD wicks performed by far the best in my testing--they're great self-trimmers and I don't get many 'shrooms except in the heavy fo's with a power burn.

I use 1 tsp/pp of coconut oil also, but the jury's still out as to whether it's made much of a difference; the CT and HT were already great. I've been pouring around 150-155, but I may try the hotter temp today as I'm still seeing a few annoying sinkholes.

[moonshine]

Hiya! I use 464/ECO Soya PB blended at 75/25 and have amazing, long lasting throw with a nice firm texture that holds up to wear and tear. I don't worry about frosting since I shrink wrap them with a cute label on the top.

With this blend I found I don't need load up to your level of FO. FWIW. I don't have my notes handy to quote the actual FO load, but I calculated what I needed based on 6% fragrance load for the PB and 10% for the 464. It comes to something like 9% total - which some may still consider high but it works for me.

Thank you for replying-

I tried the 464/PB blend as well but at 50/50 blend- so do you use the PB at 75% and if you dont mind my asking at what temp do you pour? I have read that alot of oils will work less using max load which I cannot wrap my brain around! LOL it seems to me the more the better and stronger- I am going to try out your blend with using less fragrance and see where I come out- Thank you so much:smiley2:

[moonshine]

I get great throw with most all fo's in 464 by using a 9% load--I've gone a bit higher with the really light scents, but generally that's plenty. More is just a waste. I DO let my candles cure for at least a week before burning--5 days minimum, 7 days preferable. This makes a huge difference for me. I know it's hard to wait, but it's worth it IMHO!

CD wicks performed by far the best in my testing--they're great self-trimmers and I don't get many 'shrooms except in the heavy fo's with a power burn.

I use 1 tsp/pp of coconut oil also, but the jury's still out as to whether it's made much of a difference; the CT and HT were already great. I've been pouring around 150-155, but I may try the hotter temp today as I'm still seeing a few annoying sinkholes.

Thank you Catlover-

I have not cured for a week- 4 to 5 days is all...guess I need more patience. So it sounds like CD wicks might be where its at along with less fragrance and good to know on pour temp- I have been heating to 185 and pouring at 140-145... do you add your fragrance right after heat temp or do you let it cool first?

Thank you so much:smiley2:

[TallTayl]

Hi Moonshine - my reply was more geared toward the tarts, but I could not figure out how to go back to edit to clarify.

For my 464/pb tarts I add FO at 180*, stir for 2 minutes and pour right after. I haven't taken a temp on them at pour time, sorry. I get little frost at all, though other variables like ambient temp could be partially to credit.

I did a test with just 464 containers and tarts a few months ago. I got the least amount of frost pouring at 140*. I've been using ECO and CD wicks for the 464.

[Catlover]

Moonshine, I add my fo at about 180*, then stir for two minutes solid--just the same as Tall Tayl. I always (knock wood) get really good throw.

Whether it's the weather or the addition of c.o., lately I've had more sinkholes and funky tops than normal, so I'm going to try pouring a little hotter and also going back to doing some without the coconut oil....I think this wax is pretty awesome on its own and maybe it's just messing with a good thing. :smiley2:

BTW, there are some good charts to help you decide where to start with your wicks. You can just google it and you'll find plenty.

Edited October 14, 2010 by Catlover

[TallTayl]

Moonshine - I have to say that 464, when wicked well, is a very good container wax all by itself. I'm getting a delightful result from a 'garbage' candle made from leftover wax in small jelly jar testers that were burned only about 1/2 way. The leftover of the wax gets quickly melted in the MW, and poured into a waiting wicked Mason jar (usually ECO). When the jar is full I burn it. Imagine the funky colors and layers... As it burns the scent changes every couple of days as new layers are exposed. FWIW, I test using 6% FO load.

I guess my point is the overall temp, additives and whatnot don't seem as important as finding the right wick for your application.

[moonshine]

Thank you TallTayl and Catlover- sorry for the delayed response I was out of town at my daughters Eqestrian State Competition and they won the State Championship- Go Milford!

But anyway- I am going to try the 75/25 blend- are you using the PB at 75%? I will go back to the drawing board on container candles with the 464- my CD wicks came in so I will give them a try

As far as fragrance companies- I have been using Candle Science, Natures Garden and Lonestar- Have either of you used bitter creek? I have been real happy with CS and so far NG is pretty good- Lonestar has a few good ones but this is getting expensive!

Thanks again

[TallTayl]

Congrats Milford! I'm a horse person myself.

For tarts, I been liking 464 at 75% and PB at 25%. YMMV, but it seems I get the best features of both products in this ratio.

I use all of the FO vendors you listed along with several others discovered through swaps. As with anything, you'll find FO's that perform extremely well for you and some duds regardless of the vendor.

You may spend more per oz initially, but you may want to start with 1 oz sizes and look for sample size sales that pop up periodically. When you find some you absolutely love, order them in larger bottles. At least you won't have lbs and lbs of failed FO's to look at if you don't like them. I also soap, so I look for B&B safe versions that can perform double-duty. This is a very expensive hobby to learn. And people wonder why we have to price our products as we do.

Don't forget to give your creations some time to mellow and cure. I'm burning a few that I thought were failures a couple of months ago. Now that the temp is changing in my home these suddenly smell heavenly. Thank goodness I take good notes so I can recreate these!

[Shewill5]

As far as fragrance companies- I have been using Candle Science, Natures Garden and Lonestar- Have either of you used bitter creek? I have been real happy with CS and so far NG is pretty good- Lonestar has a few good ones but this is getting expensive!

Thanks again

CS is my fave so far. Lonestar called me yesterday because of a complaint on their fo's(nice customer service) but much happier with CS fo's performance. I ordered a pretty large quantity from Candlemakers and am holding breath with the money spent. I've been wondering about Bitter Creek south also since I live in OKC. It feels like I am spending tons of money just in shipping costs and wax to figure out the best place to order FO's from.

[moonshine]

Hello TallTayl-

I tried tarts at a 75/25 blend and they wont come out of the molds without putting in the freezer for a few seconds- do you have problems with this as well? Some have cracks as well. I heated to 185* and added fragrance right after I poured into my pour pot and stirred for a couple of minutes and when pouring into the tart molds (metal) it looked the same as always- starting to set up until the whole mold was filled and reliquified(if that makes sense) and I waited a couple hours and even left one batch over night and they wont come out! Maybe I dont know how to do math-LOL but if your making a 1 lb batch of tarts I figured that is 160z. of wax so I used 4oz of PB and 12oz of 464 tared out in the pour pot. Any input would be greatly appreciated- I just want to have wonderful tarts so that in the long run when I figure it out I can save money by not going back to Yankee $2.00 tarts! I blow through about 3 a day

Thanks so much

[moonshine]

Hi Swewill 5

I have also heard Candlemakers is good- the only hesitation I had is no scent descriptions- so please let me know how you like them. I just placed an order with Bitter Creek South and I will let you know how I like their scents. Every dime we can save in shipping expense the better! CS is my favorite so far as well- love their scents and the fact that they have a soy rating-I just wish they had more variety. Have you used their Angel? Love this one but in container candles I cannot wick it right- I think the oil is to heavy and I use the 8oz. sq. mason jars so I dont think 2 wicks would work but I am going to try the CD wicks and hope they work!

[IwantItgreen]

moonshine,

I think to up your PB to at least 50%. Your blending all soy, so you must not be concerned about frosting (that's the only reason I do para-soy). Why not just do 100% PB? PB is known to have great HT in tarts.

btw, Candle science is a great supplier. They tell you which scents work well with soy and they're right on. Not only that they have some of the cheapest samples, which would be perfect for tarts.

Edited October 23, 2010 by IwantItgreen

[leslee42]

Hi there,

I have been in a testing frenzie:tongue2: with the GB 464 wax.

I have been a c3 user and wanted to try a new wax that I have read good things about...the 464.

Anyways, I love the wax, it turns out so smooth with little to mostly no frosting, no sink holes, mottling, etc. However, I am so dissapointed with the scent throw. With the C3 wax, I would always get a good scent throw (with most scents)the next day when I was just testing the wicks. With the 464 I get little to no scent throw when testing the wicks and for the scents that I am getting a good scent throw, it is a faint smell.

For those of you who are using the 464, how long in general would you say you let your candles cure before getting an "excellent" throw.

Some of you have said on here that the throw is amazing and I am just so confused at that.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

I am using quality FO's and have tested with 3 different wicks. I really like the way the wax behaves with the exception of one of the most important things to me......the scent throw.

Thank you

Christina

I have been using 464 for over 2 years and it is great. I use CD wicks and I really like the way they burn - no mushrooming, etc.. I usually never have to use more than an ounce of fragrance to get the scent throw - hot or cold. I use fragrances from Candle Science and Peak. I have used Eco Soya, C3. GB464 and 444 are great for scent throw. I get my CD's from candlesandsupplies.com. Hope this helps.

[moonshine]

Thank you for replying IwantItgreen

I have tried the tarts with 50/50 PB and 464 and although they do come out of the molds really good the scent throw was not as strong as I am looking for. I started off with just PB and that was even weaker- I like tarts and candles to be super burn your nose and eyes strong! LOL

Candlescience is so far one of my favorites for strong oil but I need to find the best wax for tarts- I have not used parrafin at all and do not want to get into second pours and all that- you mentioned parasoy.... would you say that has a better scent throw than soy alone and if so can you recommend a blend or company? Thank You so much!

[moonshine]

Leslee42

Thank you for the information- I was just using Eco wicks in straight 464 per CS wick recommendation but after alot of research on 464 users I did order CD wicks to try- I use the 8oz. square mason jars for candles and have always used the max fragrance load-12% but maybe that is too much oil for this wax and contributing to my burn problems, but that wouldnt explain why my tarts are weak- so frustrating! Thank you for the site for CD wicks- they are not easy to find without buying in 100 plus. Also you say you use Peak? I tried a few of them and they seemed real weak, if you dont mind sharing the ones you have had success with in the 464?

Thanks so much

[TallTayl]

Moonshine: I've never had a problem with them sticking in the molds at that proportion. The ambient temp in my soap/candle room is about 65 - not sure if that makes a difference.

To make them I just:

1) heat to the waxes in the presto pot to180

2) weigh out the amount of wax I need into a tin wax pitcher (from CS)

3) add a reddig-glo color chip stirring until it's completely melted

4) add FO (6-9% depending on the FO) stirring for 2 full minutes

5) pour into little 1 oz metal tartlet molds. If pouring into a lot of tart molds I'll stir after every 6 or so pours.

Any leftover wax gets poured into either silicone icecube trays or tiny plastic ice cube trays. After about 2 hours they all fall out of their molds with no muss, no fuss. If any seem to not be completely cooled, I just flip the little tartlet mold over onto the cooling table and let it sit. By the time I come back to them they've fallen from the mold.

I shrink wrap them the next day and they hold up very well in transit to/from shows. the ones I use at home sometimes stick a little in the melter, but they all pop out after a few minutes in the deep freeze (same as YC tarts IME).

HTH a little

[Shewill5]

Hi Swewill 5

I have also heard Candlemakers is good- the only hesitation I had is no scent descriptions- so please let me know how you like them. I just placed an order with Bitter Creek South and I will let you know how I like their scents. Every dime we can save in shipping expense the better! CS is my favorite so far as well- love their scents and the fact that they have a soy rating-I just wish they had more variety. Have you used their Angel? Love this one but in container candles I cannot wick it right- I think the oil is to heavy and I use the 8oz. sq. mason jars so I dont think 2 wicks would work but I am going to try the CD wicks and hope they work!

The Candlemakers FO's should be in tomorrow and I will test asap.

Candlescience is still the best so far for me. I have their Angel and will test it tonight. From the bottle it seems like it will be heavy like CS's linen fo's.

[kdorfman]

I use the same wax as well with the eco #10 wicks....I have been trying for months cant get a throw.

[Shewill5]

Hi Swewill 5

I have also heard Candlemakers is good- the only hesitation I had is no scent descriptions- so please let me know how you like them. I just placed an order with Bitter Creek South and I will let you know how I like their scents. Every dime we can save in shipping expense the better! CS is my favorite so far as well- love their scents and the fact that they have a soy rating-I just wish they had more variety. Have you used their Angel? Love this one but in container candles I cannot wick it right- I think the oil is to heavy and I use the 8oz. sq. mason jars so I dont think 2 wicks would work but I am going to try the CD wicks and hope they work!

Angel from CS is very strong. I'm allergic to this one so going to have others test the hot throw after curing. It's perfumey and strong even cold.

I got the Candlemakers FO's in but allergies are going nuts so can't smell them very well. Huge waaa, I'm such a whiner. lol I'm going to post the FO's in the Fragrance only thread

[moonshine]

TallTayl-

Thank you so much for the information- I am going to give it another try tonight, could be that the molds were brand new- hopefully that is all it is because when I melted the chunks after mutilating them getting them out of the molds - the 75/25 blend are so much better and stronger!! Thank you Thank you Thank you