Beverley Posted December 20, 2008 Author Share Posted December 20, 2008 Well, I specifically asked for strong fragrances and gave them some examples of brands of candles that I use regularly that have a great scent throw. They sent what I asked for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leisa2003 Posted December 20, 2008 Share Posted December 20, 2008 Bev, I dont think you are hurting any one supplier by your post, atleast you didnt name any suppliers you've dealt with as some have on here. Maybe search around and find another board that doesn't allow suppliers on the boards. ( I think they have them.:undecided ???). I know I would like to find one, seems their would be less "scariness" to post about problems with any suppliers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beverley Posted December 20, 2008 Author Share Posted December 20, 2008 That would be helpful..... unbiased information, like consumer reports for candle making! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southern.scents Posted December 20, 2008 Share Posted December 20, 2008 Maybe I have been in the dark the entire time I have a been a memeber of this forum but I have never once seen a post about a supplier be removed unless it got out of hand. Peak may own this board but that is where it ends. People are allowed to talk the good and the bad about ANY suppliers (in my experience) so from what I can tell this board is not "biased". Just because the board is supplier owned and suppliers are allowed to post doesn't mean its "biased" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tess Posted December 20, 2008 Share Posted December 20, 2008 That would be helpful..... unbiased information, like consumer reports for candle making!May----Be--, It's just me but is it not "biased" to categorize ALL suppliers as "liars who dilute their oils"?I gotta say anyone who is coming across with a problem is you. You got awful defensive just because an admin told you that you could not hold a co-op. It's not personal, there are just a lot off rules imposed because of fraudulent co-op hosts. So if in fact you found your perfect candle formula, great. Best of luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beverley Posted December 20, 2008 Author Share Posted December 20, 2008 I totally understand the rules for the co-op.... just couldn't find them. The link wasn't working. The thing that got me a bit upset about this whole thing was that I wasn't even the one who suggested a co-op. It was suggested to me and I thought I'd go for it if anyone wanted to do one. I don't even care anymore. I have my happy candles and my happy FO's and now I'm off to my happy bed! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Druin Posted December 20, 2008 Share Posted December 20, 2008 In somewhat of Bev's defense, many of the areas of this forum are not accessible to new members. In fact, Sara and I have had an email discussion about this over the past week - some of the rules, the "Board Usage" forum, etc are not able to be seen by new members, so it is legit that Bev did not know about the Co-Op rules. The only reason I know about them is that when you are NOT signed in (or before you join here), you have access to read those forums (like the Classifieds). Once you are a new member and signed in, you cannot view many of these areas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cindym Posted December 20, 2008 Share Posted December 20, 2008 In somewhat of Bev's defense, many of the areas of this forum are not accessible to new members. In fact, Sara and I have had an email discussion about this over the past week - some of the rules, the "Board Usage" forum, etc are not able to be seen by new members, so it is legit that Bev did not know about the Co-Op rules. The only reason I know about them is that when you are NOT signed in (or before you join here), you have access to read those forums (like the Classifieds). Once you are a new member and signed in, you cannot view many of these areas.And there is a very good reason for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Druin Posted December 20, 2008 Share Posted December 20, 2008 I certainly don't doubt that! I have been in those shoes (forum/site admin) and I totally understand why rules are in place. I'm just saying that it's sometimes its hard to find your way around a new place when the things that are in place to help new people (such as the rules and the "board usage" forum) are not accessible to the new people. It would be like driving in a foreign city but no maps are available to guide you.I hope that clears up any confusion about my post above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForHisGlory Posted December 20, 2008 Share Posted December 20, 2008 Maybe you are right. All I know is that when I received several samples from the mfgr, they worked in every tester......This is what happened to me. I didn't order straight from a mfgr, but I happened to choose my first set of FO's that just worked and I "thought" (lol) I was on easy street - then - I got in some vanilla and some heavier scents, etc. and the game was on.I learned what it meant to "test", "test" and "test", pull your hair out, kick the cat (j/k), etc.Needless to say, my little bubble burst big time and I was laid flat just like everyone else that starts out in the candle business. LOL! I think I even wrote an apology thread here! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tootie04 Posted December 20, 2008 Share Posted December 20, 2008 Like some here...I was VERY lucky when i started out and everything was PERFECT...or so I thought. I had no candle board except vickies at KY and had some help there. I used her wax and FO's (which are NOT cut) and did very well. Then came the move West and had to find a new wax and THAT has been just like starting over again. I have a formulation picked out and I order my FO's from GOOD suppliers and I have till next Fall to perfect my candles. I still have some customers I sell to but they are very few right now. So anyway I am trying to say that MANY of the suppliers here do NOT cut oils as you would suggest.tootie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beverley Posted December 20, 2008 Author Share Posted December 20, 2008 Im not saying that I have this down for every FO I am going to try in the future. But so far the ones I have tried from the mfgr have worked for me. I am fully expecting to run into problems with certain oils as I go along. But for now, I am able to offer the FO's that I tested and that worked. I'm not trying to launch 80 candle fragrances at one time! I agree that each oil needs to be tested thoroughly which is why I made samples in the jars I will be selling in and so far I only needed to wick up on one candle and all have burned beautifully. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leisa2003 Posted December 20, 2008 Share Posted December 20, 2008 I dont think any of the supplier members of this board "cut" their oils, infact I think the best suppliers out their, are some of the one's who are members on this board. I actually posted a few years back, about a supplier I was having problems with(who wasn't a active member of the board), and had someone here ( a member) email the supplier that I was dealing with, and told them I was over here talking "bad" things about them. Not that this board itself has anything to do with that ( it doesn't) but its just a very few, that wants to make things even worse, for their own pleasure. Now, their is 1 supplier that is local for me, and I heard alot of raves on this board about this particular supplier ( not a member here), and until I visited them locally, I can't say they cut their oils, but I sure could tell how they were cheating customers on their weight of oils. And I always thought if they were going to cheat you in anyway, it would be from online orders, but I had SEEN how they were weighing oils with tape, sand-paper, and napkins taped to their scales when weighing oil with all that and lids on the bottles. Maybe its just me, but I want the amount of oil I am paying for.And no, I will never ever post the name of any supplier here, because of "tattle tales". ( You're never away from kindergarden)I do not buy oils from this company any longer, but I do buy my wax from them, and I like this because I save on shipping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vicky_CO Posted December 20, 2008 Share Posted December 20, 2008 Supplier post good or bad do not get removed from this board unless people get nasty about them but that is going to be on any board, people defend their suppliers. People get attached to their suppliers and sometimes go over board in defending them. That is a fact of life on any board. We as Mods are here to try and keep thing on an even keel I admit it does not always happen but we try very hard.Peaks is the owner of this board but he turned the running of it over to us years ago and now all he does is maintain it and has a permanent link on here. We can talk about just anything we like.Bev I was giving you a heads up before you where talked in to something that would have been against our rules not to be mean or nasty just a heads up to try an prevent me from having to shut down a co-op you started because members talked you in to something that was against the rules.This is a thread I will be watching closely lets hope we can all behave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beverley Posted December 20, 2008 Author Share Posted December 20, 2008 I appreciate that you posted the co-op rules. I had no idea of what I was getting in to!! Yes, I have noticed that people are very attached to their suppliers and I will continue to look for one that is suitable for me to use when testing new fragrances and there are a few that are often mentioned here that are within driving distance. I am hoping to set up an appointment and visit one of them that is about 2 hours drive for me and see how it goes. Although I am planning to use a direct source for a handfull of FO's, it doesn't make much sense to do that with FO's that aren't selling as well yet still sell enough to warrant keeping the fragrance as a buying option. I will possibly look into the co-op option once I have met the requirements. Thanks for your help! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JacquiO Posted December 22, 2008 Share Posted December 22, 2008 Beverly, I want to apologize for suggesting the co-op. I didn't even look at your member stats and didn't realize that you have not been a member long enough. When I saw Vicky's reply I was like - oops!I've been a member of this forum since 2002 and pop in from time to time. I hope that you haven't been too turned off by all the attacks. We all seem to get our share of attacks every now and then and often by the same boardies. And if they don't know who they are by now rest assured that the rest of us do. But that's all I'm going to say about that. One of the reasons I joined and the reason I stayed is because Alan (from Peaks) stated from the get go that we could discuss any supplier on this site unlike some other candle making forums. But I remember a time when I was inquiring about a supplier and instead of getting the feedback I was looking for I got about 20 replies telling me I should buy Peaks and should be ashamed of myself for even mentioning another fragrance supplier. I was so turned off I don't think I came back for six months even though Alan himself chimed in with a helpful reply. I was just really turned off by the upity-ness of some people. Then I learned that I have to just roll with the punches. Most of the time I get real help and other benefits of this site such as the swaps, tutorials, classifieds and co-ops. Well I guess my point is that I hope your experience here didn't turn you off to the forum. There is a lot of good information and good people on this forum and we really work together to provide a network of support and awareness in the craft. Cheers, Jacqui Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beverley Posted December 23, 2008 Author Share Posted December 23, 2008 Hi Jacqui, Absolutely no need to apologize for suggesting the co-op. [removed] I do appreciate your post (and those of you who have emailed me directly). I don't intend to leave the forum simply because of some juvenile behavior, you will get that most anywhere and from some of the most unsuspecting places! I have however found the forum to be quite helpful in my endeavor and will stick around as I grow my business. I still have to wick other jar sizes ya know! I am sure I will have plenty of questions when I start playing with other jar sizes after Christmas and would love to continue to learn from those of you who have been helpful - it is all very much appreciated!I would have posted this on the "other" thread but it seems I can read what is being said about me but do not yet have privileges to post there.....I may be new HERE but not totally new to candles so if you all would give me some time and get to know me I am sure everyone can benefit from the wealth of knowledge to be found on this forum. If anyone has questions about the nature of my business, why the Bahamas is listed on my site, why I have a PA phone number, how I'm selling in other countries more so than here in the states, etc... I invite you all (you know who you are) to ask whatever you like. Maybe I am ignorant, but I didn't know that when I joined here to find some information on wicking a tumbler that I'd need to be interrogated, tarred and feathered and a get a credit check! I just want to make candles...... Happy Holidays to everyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cissy Posted December 23, 2008 Share Posted December 23, 2008 Well, I've never ordered directly from a manufacturer, so can't compare the strength of their FO's. I have ordered some WYW FO's, and even though many of their (WYW) scents aren't my favorite scents because they are rather unique, I am impressed with the strength of their FO's and have wondered many times how or why they are more concentrated and stronger than many other FO's and have wished many, many times they would carry more 'common' everyday scents (without some of the unique base notes) that the majority of my customers seem to prefer. I have no idea why there is a difference in the concentration or strength. They are more expensive, but I for one would prefer higher strength even at a higher price. I would prefer having more control over getting the best possible hot throw without worrying about FO overload that affects the burn or safety ofthe candle.Now I have to confess that I've never ordered from Peaks (yet) because I'm on the east coast, trying to save on shipping, so please don't throw me off the board for admitting this.(LOL)I still plan to try Peak's sometime soon, just haven't got around to it yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beverley Posted December 23, 2008 Author Share Posted December 23, 2008 This is what I was told in a nutshell from a couple mfgrs.... (which may very well mean that suppliers aren't diluting FO's but the mfgr is doing it for them).... I was told from two mfgrs that when you are purchasing FO, the mfgr will ask the supplier or candle maker what they want to pay for the FO per pound to start. So lets say supplier x wants to keep their cost down and sell FO at $20.00/pp to the home based business for an example. The mfgr will then create (for example) a vanilla scent with ingredients that warrant the suppliers price point. You can get a more complex FO at a higher price that out of the bottle may smell very similar to the $20.00 FO but due to the lack of chemical components involved in the higher priced FO you don't end up getting a good scent throw in the end product. Does that make any sense? This is why I am willing to pay up to $50.00/pp for fragrances that don't seem to throw well in general.... But all in all, some FO's are light by nature and won't give me a strong and accurate throw in any case so I just don't use them... I'm going for wow factor. This is why I specifically asked my mfgr for very strong FO's. Also, in case anyone wondered (and someone did wonder on another thread), I get my FO from Alpha Aromatics in Fox Chapel, PA. Wasn't trying to keep that a secret - nobody asked! They don't have "stock" fragrances and do everything custom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cissy Posted December 23, 2008 Share Posted December 23, 2008 Thanks, Beverly. That explains it. Guess it just goes to show, you generally get what you pay for. Wish more consumers understood this so they wouldn't waste their money buying unscented candles/tarts elsewhere (LOL) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beverley Posted December 23, 2008 Author Share Posted December 23, 2008 It took me a long time to get that info.... just never thought to ask before but that's the explanation I got and it makes complete sense to me. By the way, my name is Erin. I used Beverley for the forum because my candle company is "Beverley Randolph Luxury Candle Co.".... Um, in case anyone thought I was being deceptive! (not at all aimed to you Cissy!) Glad I could help ya with that FO question!!! Hope you have a fab holiday! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CareBear Posted December 24, 2008 Share Posted December 24, 2008 I'm sorry it took you a long time to get that info. If you had asked here I could have typed it all out in just a couple of minutes.I can tell you from personal experience in the fragrance manufacturing industry (Givaudan, IFF, Symrise) that the FOs I purchase from Peak and many other quality suppliers are the same strength as those produced by the "manufacturers" with whom I've experience. FOs can vary in strength, quality, and impact but what the mfg sells is what you get. They are not "watering them down" as you accused. You are simply buying more expensive fragrances.And I did ask, twice actually, in your post over in the classifieds - and in a PM. Your description in post 68 is fairly accurate, by the way - you (and your supplier) get what you pay for.BTW, we in the fragrance manufacturing industry no longer use the term "wow factor" - it's now "passion"ETA: as you were told, Peak does not have any rules about posting about them or other suppliers. This is about as unbiased as you are going to get here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beverley Posted December 24, 2008 Author Share Posted December 24, 2008 Thanks for the post! I would have responded but I don't have access to the classified section at this time and I never received the PM..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CareBear Posted December 24, 2008 Share Posted December 24, 2008 my apology on that one, I got you mixed up with someone else. I did, in fact, not ask you. Honest offer - if you have questions about how the industry operates or about other technical fragrance stuff please don't hesitate to ask me. what I can't answer from my own knowledge or experience I'll happily ask our chemists and perfumers. Or heck, even our sales people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8-GRAN-ONES Posted December 24, 2008 Share Posted December 24, 2008 I have a question for you Carebear..Why do I have alot of trouble with fruit scents, haveing a fuel smell..I have very few fruits in my candle line because of the fuel smell.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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