Newbie 464 Testing

[Caramel]

Thanks, Stella, I will look into this!

Tootie- What jars do you use? I am thinking of changing to something straight-sided (as suggested here). Perhaps that will give me a starting point.

I am scared to get into mixing (I am sure something would possibly go wrong *L*), although I am intrigued by the CO angle. Does this mix really work better that soy or soy blends or does it have its own challenges (I have read some of what you guys post... so much stuff to remember! *S*)

In any case, thanks for the help! *S*

[tootie04]

Right now I pour into 6oz and 8oz tins. I used to use the 9oz hex jar. I am going to be testing tumblers by the 1st of Feb. In the 9oz hex jar with that wax you could start with a CD 12 or 14.

tootie

[Caramel]

I started out using 2 oz tins, but changed to glass 1) due to the tin getting hot and having a weird smell after burning and replacing the top after the candle cooled and 2) to have a different, upscale option (I was also had a heck of a time to decide on a size tin I wanted- I decided I would use 6 oz tins, if I decide to use them again).

I will take this into consideration. Keep me in mind when you start testing your tumblers. I would love to know how that works out for you (and perhaps get some helpful tips! *S*).

Thanks so much!

[tootie04]

I always post my testing....stay tuned....BUT my testing will be with my 50/50 mix AND the Frost palm wax from CS. so you would have to adjust your wick sizes.

tootie

[Caramel]

Oooh! I have been wanting to test the palm wax (actually thought of doing a soy/palm mix, but could not find info about this and if it was good... no one posted results).

I can't wait to see your findings! *S*

[tootie04]

Some on here are using the Glass Glow Palm but I saw the Frost Palm and I like it cause it looks like the patterns are smaller.

tootie

[Caramel]

Testing Update:

So, I remelted my testers, rewicked my jars (tried straight jars instead of the tureens) and waiting 24 hrs. Here are my results:

4 oz ECO 10 tester after 4 hrs: http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=viewImage&friendID=338137274&albumID=963670&imageID=10168751

Lg mushroom w/flickering & possible drowning; 1/2" FMP and the glass was very warm after 2 hrs, but just warm (cooler) after 4 hrs (which supports the drowning?).

4 oz CD 8 tester after 4 hrs: http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=viewImage&friendID=338137274&albumID=963670&imageID=10168752

Lg mushroom w/flickering; 1/2" FMP and the glass warm after 2 & 4 hrs.

4oz CSN 14 tester after 4 hrs: http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=viewImage&friendID=338137274&albumID=963670&imageID=10168753

Sm mushroom w/flickering; 1/2" FMP w/slight hang-up and the glass was warm after 2 & 4 hrs.

4oz HTP 62 tester after 4 hrs: http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=viewImage&friendID=338137274&albumID=963670&imageID=10168766

Sm mushroom w/flickering; 1/4-1/2" FMP w/slight hang-up and the glass was luke warm after 2 & 4 hrs.

7 oz CSN 16 tester after 4 hrs: http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=viewImage&friendID=338137274&albumID=963670&imageID=10168767

Lg mushroom w/flickering & possible drowning; 1/2" FMP w/slight hangup and the glass was very warm after 2 hrs, but just warm after 4 hrs.

7 oz CSN 26 tester after 4 hrs: http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=viewImage&friendID=338137274&albumID=963670&imageID=10168755

Lg mushroom w/flickering; 1/2" FMP and the glass was warm after 2 & very warm after 4 hrs.

7 oz CD 10 tester after 4 hrs: http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=viewImage&friendID=338137274&albumID=963670&imageID=10168769

Med mushroom w/flickering; 1/4"-1/2" FMP w/lots of hangup and the glass was warm after 2 & 4 hrs.

7 oz HTP 83 tester after 4 hrs: http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=viewImage&friendID=338137274&albumID=963670&imageID=10168771

Sm mushroom w/flickering; did not reach FMP and the glass was luke warm after 2 & 4 hrs.

My novice eye tells me to wick up using the 3.5"-4" dia wicks on the larger jars. And to try testing the HTP 62, 83 and the other 3" dia wick in the smaller jars.

Do you all agree? (should I try the CO in my next new batch of testers, instead of using remelted ones? will this help?) Please help!

Thanks!

[Caramel]

bumping for feedback *shameless pandering* (LOL)

[Caramel]

Last try at asking for help or feedback. I really am stumped and frustrated.

Thanks!

[AntoniasCreations]

Ok well I dont really know what to say. Testing can be very tedious, but the pay off comes when you find that right wick.

I am not really sure if I can help because I really dont understand how you are testing.

Why are you only putting just a few ounces in those containers? I understand the are tumblers but IMO they should have a lot more wax in them. And this will also make your wicks burn differently.

Is this your first burn on these in the new jar? It is really best to burn all the way to the bottom in order to tell if the wick is burning right. Unless you can tell it is just really to small or if you are getting a FMP in very little time.

I dont really go for the FMP on the first burn. I like it to get there by the second burn or even the third burn.

Also did you add any FO and if so how much (what %)? To much FO can cause your wick to shroom like that, or not trimming enough, or it just not being the right wick. Also how is the scent throw with each wick (if you are using fo)?

I know testing sucks and everyone wants to skip it but what has worked for someone else might not always work for you. You really need to test it all the way to the end to see how it burns. GL

[Caramel]

Hi Antonia

These jars are what was left in my old tureens. I used the wax from those after reading here that you can test various wicks using the same wax (melting the wax down and using new wick). It was also mentioned that I should try a straight-sided jar(s), so I just poured the wax in there (was using the sample method of seeing if the wick gave a FMP before doing a complete burn test).

In all of my testers (3 scents) I used 1 oz per lb.

So I guess I should not be concerned if there is no FMP on the first burn? If that is the case, what about the mushrooming? As you can see, it is really bad in some (and a few of those also burned to fast/hot).

Thanks for the response. I am just so confused as to what I am looking for and if I am on the right track. So much information and I feel like I am getting none of it right (except for the reduced frosting part).

[Caramel]

I burned an older tester and it caught up from the last burn (but there was a noticable "film" on the glass), but when I burned it tonight, it tunneled a bit. Grr!

And the mushrooming! I can't stop the mushrooms from coming (some are bigger than others).

Not happy-making.

[Catlover]

This is mostly directed to Tootie, since it looks like you use (or have used) CD wicks in 464. (Anyone else using CD's with 464...would love your input too!) I've used the CD's in C3 and love the way they burn, but I wasn't sure they would do as well with the 464. My impression was that you were happy with them? My containers are between 3"'4" in diameter--probably won't go much bigger than that. Thanks for your opinion!

[Stella1952]

Caramel. I dunno where you read what about using used wax for testing, or testing a small amount of wax, etc., but instead of taking shortcuts which effectively leave you dazed and confused, just make test candles the right way. A test candle should be identical to one you hope to sell. It's a prototype and should be identical in every way (except labelling, etc.) to a production candle, otherwise you'll just have to test more!!

Burn your candles for test periods of 1 hour per inch of container diameter (widest part). Allow to cool completely, trim wicks, continue. Record your observations at the end of each burn period.

I think I have written these words a dozen times in the last couple of weeks: it is normal for veggie waxes (ie. soy & palm) to achieve FMP on the second or third burn. If they DO hit FMP on the first burn, chances are the container will be too hot as the candle burns down. Wick for the last half of the container. Unless the wick drowns or the flame becomes too high and container way too hot, keep testing the candle all the way to the bitter end.

If I tested that many candles with that many wicks at once, my head would be spinning!! Work on solving one problem at a time. If you are trying to get your wicking correct, don't worry about frosting. KISS is the rule of the day for testing. Slow down a little and get your priorities in order, ie. what are you testing FOR? If it's wicking, then make 3 candles and use three different sizes of the same wick type. Using wick charts, advise from others or voodoo, determine which size you *think* will work for the container. Then use one size smaller and one size larger for your 3 testers.

This isn't supposed to drive you batty. Easy does it.

PS I like CDNs.

[Caramel]

Hi Stella,

Thanks for the feedback. Yeah, I am testing the smaller jar right now.

As for your question about resuing wax, I found one of the threads here (http://www.craftserver.com/forums/showthread.php?t=78753&highlight=burn+test+candle) about testing wicks. I still had plans to do a full test, just was trying to test wicks without wasting much product. But, oh well, I will continue to try doing it the old fashioned way.

Thanks again!

[kimmeroo]

:smiley2:

Caramel;753386]Hi Stella,

Thanks for the feedback. Yeah, I am testing the smaller jar right now.

As for your question about resuing wax, I found one of the threads here (http://www.craftserver.com/forums/showthread.php?t=78753&highlight=burn+test+candle) about testing wicks. I still had plans to do a full test, just was trying to test wicks without wasting much product. But, oh well, I will continue to try doing it the old fashioned way.

Thanks again!

Hey Caramel..

I know how you feel..but Stella is right..you won't be "wasting" product because once you achieve the correct wicking in the jars and fo's you want to sell,someday, you will recoop that testing money back.Good luck..

Kimmeroo

[Caramel]

It's me, again. *L*

I have been testing my CDN wicks and I have been getting weird results. I forgot to take pictures from my 1st test burn, but I am in the middle of my 2nd and I will post those.

I will give you my notes: As usual, I had issues centering, but it was not bad. The glass jar hold a little over 6 oz and is 2-7/8" dia x 2-3/4" h.

CDN 8: This one burned a FMP that was barely 1/4" deep. It maintained a steady flame and had mushrooming during the 2nd hr check, but had none at the end of the 4th hr. The glass was luke warm to the touch. The burn seemed to reach FMP during hour 2.

CDN 10: This one burned a FMP that that seemed to be 1/4" deep. It maintained a steady flame and had large mushrooming during the 2nd hr check, but was smaller at the end of the 4th hr. The glass was warm to the touch. The burn seemed to reach FMP during hour 2.

CDN 12: This one burned a FMP about 1/4" deep. It maintained a steady flame and had no mushrooming during the 2nd hr check, but had a large one the end of the 4th hr. The glass was very warm to the touch. The burn seemed to reach an almost FMP before hour 2.

CDN 14: This one burned a FMP that looked to be over 1/4" deep. It maintained a steady flame and had large mushrooming during the 2nd hr check, but had a med one at the end of the 4th hr. The glass was luke warm to the touch. (?) The burn reached FMP before hour 2.

CDN 16: This one burned a FMP that that looked to be over 1/4" deep. It maintained a steady flame and had no mushrooming during the 2nd hr check, but med one at the end of the 4th hr. The glass was very warm to the touch. The burn seemed to reached FMP before hour 2.

So it seemed to me that the 8 and the 14 were the ones to watch on the next burn, but does that seem right? It is very odd, so I will be adding pictures after my 2nd test burn.

As always, all feedback is welcomed and thanks again!

[Caramel]

Ok, so here are the results of the 2nd burn test:

Started at 5:27 PM, checked on testers in hourly interval, Ended 9:30 PM

CDN 8: This one burned almost a FMP w/thin hangup that was barely 1/4" deep. It maintained a steady flame and had no mushrooming during the 2nd hr check, but had med mushrooming at the end of the 4th hr. The glass was luke warm to the touch. The burn seemed to reach FMP during hour 3.

http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=viewImage&friendID=338137274&albumID=963670&imageID=11021948

http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=viewImage&friendID=338137274&albumID=963670&imageID=11021952

http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=viewImage&friendID=338137274&albumID=963670&imageID=11021954

CDN 10: This one burned almost a FMP w/thin hangup that was barely 1/4" deep. It started w/a steady flame but ended up high w/minor flickering. Had small mushroom during the 2nd hr check, but had lg mushrooming at the end of the 4th hr. The glass was luke warm to the touch. The burn seemed to reach FMP during hour 3.

http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=viewImage&friendID=338137274&albumID=963670&imageID=11021956

http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=viewImage&friendID=338137274&albumID=963670&imageID=11021959

http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=viewImage&friendID=338137274&albumID=963670&imageID=11021960

CDN 12: This one burned a FMP a little over 1/4" deep. It started w/a steady flame but ended up high w/minor flickering. Had lg mushrooming during the 2nd hr check, but had a huge mushroom at the end of the 4th hr. The glass was warm to the touch. The burn reached FMP during hour 2.

http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=viewImage&friendID=338137274&albumID=963670&imageID=11021963

http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=viewImage&friendID=338137274&albumID=963670&imageID=11021964

http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=viewImage&friendID=338137274&albumID=963670&imageID=11021968

CDN 14: This one burned a FMP a little over 1/4" deep. It started w/a steady flame but ended up high w/flickering. Had lg mushrooming during the 2nd hr check, but had a huge mushroom at the end of the 4th hr. The glass was very warm to the touch. The burn seemed to reach FMP during hour 2.

http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=viewImage&friendID=338137274&albumID=963670&imageID=11021969

http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=viewImage&friendID=338137274&albumID=963670&imageID=11021973

http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=viewImage&friendID=338137274&albumID=963670&imageID=11021974

CDN 16: This one burned a FMP w/thin hangup that was 1/4" deep. It started w/a steady flame but ended up high w/minor flickering. Had slightly sm mushroom during the 2nd hr check, but small mushroom at the end of the 4th hr. The glass was warm to the touch. The burn seemed to reached FMP during hour 3.

http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=viewImage&friendID=338137274&albumID=963670&imageID=11021977

http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=viewImage&friendID=338137274&albumID=963670&imageID=11021979

http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=viewImage&friendID=338137274&albumID=963670&imageID=11021983

(added pictures)

[Caramel]

Today's update:

I did the 3rd test burn with three candles (CDN 8, 10, 16) and they all caught up and created a FMP that either was at or a little over 1/4" deep (CDN 8 has a thicker hangup flim than the 16 and 10, but I think that is due to my botched centering). The biggest problems has been the mushrooming-- it is horrible, except for the CDN 16, which was small compared to the other two. But, the CDN 10 and 16 flickered a lot more than the 10. Also, the CDN 10 container was warmer than the 8 and the 16.

I am a bit confused by my results, so I decided to burn the CDN 12 and 14 container to see what my results will be this time around.

Something TOLD me to burn them all at the same time, but I didn't listen. Will see how these come out in 4 hours, but my gut is also telling me that this FO is not working well (plus, I think it is sinking to the bottom of the candle during cooling).

[Caramel]

The 12 and 14 wicks are a bust. I am really upset because it seems as if nothing is working!

Should I be worried about mushrooming, this much if it is not affecting the burn? Because it is ugly, but they burn...

I need help or divine intervention... grrr!

[Stella1952]

The 14 and up would most likely be too much wick for that diameter jar. A 10 is a good starting mid-point - I would expect something between 8-12 to do the trick. I'm betting the 8 will leave more residue but have very similar burn time, ROC and hot throw as the 10. The temp of the container may be quite similar between the 8 & 10.

What kind of FO & supplier, dye, etc. are you using again? Are you trimming the wick before every test? Using any additives?

Since the container is 2 7/8" in diameter, the test period should be a little less than 3 hours per session; extinguish, take notes; let cool completely; trim wick and start again. Varying your test session time will not give you the most accurate results. Burning too long without trimming the wick encourages 'shrooming (notice they all tended to 'shroom during the 4th hour?). Once you get your wicking dialed in, THEN, do a powerburn (from start to finish without stopping the burn at precise intervals nor trimming the wick) to see how the candle performs when the general public gets hold of 'em...

due to my botched centering

So recenter the wick! You can correct minor problems (like the lopsided burn on self-trimming wicks like CD & CDNs) by pushing the wick in the direction it needs to go. Bigger deviances can be corrected by sliding a bamboo skewer (or equivalent pokey thing) to the bottom alongside the wick on the side it needs to be moved toward, then push the wick over with the skewer. Doesn't look real pretty, but for testing it works out okay.

[Caramel]

The 14 and up would most likely be too much wick for that diameter jar. A 10 is a good starting mid-point - I would expect something between 8-12 to do the trick. I'm betting the 8 will leave more residue but have very similar burn time, ROC and hot throw as the 10. The temp of the container may be quite similar between the 8 & 10.

The 8 and the 10 were the better performers, but the 8 mushroomed more and seemed to "drown" the flame a bit due to the large mushroom. It was really strange, though, that the 16 was burning like a 8 or 10, but with a high flame... the jar was not too warm or hot. It was really weird.

What kind of FO & supplier, dye, etc. are you using again? Are you trimming the wick before every test? Using any additives?

I used Citrus Strawberry from Nature's Garden, no dye and no additives (at this time, was thinking of adding CO for throw, but decided I needed to try getting a good wick WITHOUT anything added, first). I trim the wick to 1/4" before each burn session.

Since the container is 2 7/8" in diameter, the test period should be a little less than 3 hours per session; extinguish, take notes; let cool completely; trim wick and start again. Varying your test session time will not give you the most accurate results.

I was burning the candles for 4 hours each time. Since you say this is incorrect for the diameter, should I scrap these and start over, testing the next batch at 3 hour intervals?

Burning too long without trimming the wick encourages 'shrooming (notice they all tended to 'shroom during the 4th hour?).

But some were doing this during the second and third hour, which is why I was frustrated and wondering if it was the FO or if I should give up and try something else.

Once you get your wicking dialed in, THEN, do a powerburn (from start to finish without stopping the burn at precise intervals nor trimming the wick) to see how the candle performs when the general public gets hold of 'em...

*praying to get to this point* *L*

So recenter the wick! You can correct minor problems (like the lopsided burn on self-trimming wicks like CD & CDNs) by pushing the wick in the direction it needs to go. Bigger deviances can be corrected by sliding a bamboo skewer (or equivalent pokey thing) to the bottom alongside the wick on the side it needs to be moved toward, then push the wick over with the skewer. Doesn't look real pretty, but for testing it works out okay.

Yes, the curling is killing me because it burns too much or too hot on one side. But since all three jars caught up on the third and fourth burns, I was ok (and the jars were comfortably warm).

Stella- Thank you, as always, for the response. I am really trying hard to get this down. I am thinking on trying the another batch with CDN 10, CD 10 and ECO 6 or 8. I figure I should try these to compare. I have a hard time trying to get CDNs, so perhaps back ups that perform comparably would help... or should I forget this?

Thanks again for your help and feedback!