Jump to content

Newbie 464 Testing


Recommended Posts

Hi all! I am new to the board (lurker) and candlemaking. I have been reading up on it off and on for a few years before finally taking the plunge.:yay: Anyway, I am in the middle of testing my first 10 lb bag from Candle Science and I was wondering if you could tel me if this is normal or if I did something wrong.

I used 1 lb of wax, 1.5 oz of fragrance oil (I mixed Asian Amber, Cedarwood Vanilla and Honeysuckle Jasmine), four 2 oz tins and a bunch of tealights (I poured the leftover wax in a votive glass for a candle warmer test). I let it cure for 72 hours before I burned one of the 2 oz tins. I noticed a small amount of mushrooming (very small) and the melt pool was clear, yet cloudy, like I could see the wax or oil shifting (the closest I can think of is when you see a puddle and it is clear until you disturb the dirt/sediment just enough to see the dirt shift, but not mix with the water).

Should this be happening? Any advice you could give is appreciated.

Many thanks!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Oh, I meant to mention that I did 1 fragrance testing (I got excited and wanted to test a mix- as you see above). After testing that tin (which was ok), I put the top on after it cooled and came back two days later to start the burn again. When I opened the tin, I noticed it had a weird metallic smell. I was using Asian Amber (and it did the same in Honeysuckle Jasmine).

Sorry for the crazy questions, but I have searched this board (and others) and found nothing that came close (other than vanilla potentially rusting tins).

Thanks!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

that sounds like a lot of fragrance oil. No need to use that much. I would back it down to 1oz of fragrance per lb of wax, which is around 5-6% fragrance load. The most i would go up is 1.25oz of fragranc eoil per lb of wax, which is about 8% fragrance load.

i wouldnt worry about how clear your melt pool is, you should first worry about getting a full melt pool that is reaching all the edges, which should probably take at least 2-3 test burns to achieve.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks, Carrie, I will try using less. I was reading that you could do 1.5 oz with this wax, so I did the max. Hopefully, this will help with the mushroom.

However, I am now afraid to use tins because I would hate for this smell to hang around the candle after burning and replacing the top. I guess I will have to see if using aluminum tins will work.

Oh and I get a full melt pool in the tins, so it is all good there.

Thanks so much!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I use 464 only and here is what I do.

I melt my wax completley ( i have an electric turkey fryer) and then let it cool completley.

I then remelt, measure and add FO ( if you use Candlescience scents, you are wasting them by using any more than 3/4 to 1oz pp of wax. You might actually lose scent throw by adding too much.) I stir until around 105 to 100 degrees and then pour.

I use CD and Eco wicks and I love them. Nice smooth burn and great scent throw with 464.

You are adventurous starting with candle tins. They can be a pain to wick. Try a 6 or 8oz jar too.

Good luck.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Antonia- I noticed that I got a full melt pool around the 2 2.5 hour mark, but that was when I was doing the three scented one. When I did the one scent, it was around 2.5 to 3 hours. I was a bit concerned because everything I read was that I was supposed to get it around the 4 hour mark. So I kept coming back here to see what other people were doing and what I was doing wrong. I figured since this was the wick SC recommended, it should have been working fine.

Anabanana- Hmm, I may have to try your suggestions. I like that I can pour this hot, but maybe that is not the best course of action. I will also make sure to keep to the 1oz/1lb rule. It gets so frustrating because I am not always patient.

I also got the tins because they were inexpensive and seemed easier. I recently purchased 3 and 6 oz tureens... or should I have tried the jars?:confused:

I was told to use containers that I would be using for a finished product and learn to get that right before moving on (I think I read that here, too).

Oh goodness. Let's hope I did not make a mess of things!

Thank you all for the helpful tips!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You can pour it hot or cool. I prefer cool only because with the temperature fluctuations in my house I don't have to worry about heating the tops.

I just think that tins are adventorous because they can be unpredictable. For me anyway, they start off very cool and don't melt nice and then the end can be scorching hot. It takes alot of trial and error to wick them correctly.

Just my opinion, but I would try jars that are the same size from top to bottom and see how that works for you. Just until you get used to how they burn and get the wicking down. Like an inexpensive jelly jar or something. But again, that is just my opinion.

Good luck.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Antonia- I noticed that I got a full melt pool around the 2 2.5 hour mark, but that was when I was doing the three scented one. When I did the one scent, it was around 2.5 to 3 hours. I was a bit concerned because everything I read was that I was supposed to get it around the 4 hour mark. So I kept coming back here to see what other people were doing and what I was doing wrong. I figured since this was the wick SC recommended, it should have been working fine.

Ok not sure where you got 4 hours from but you are using the 2 oz tins right? They are 2" diameter so it should only take 2 hours to get a full melt pool but the thing is with tins you want it to be on the cooler side until it gets half way down because that is when it really starts to heat up in there and if you have a little bit of hang up from the first half it will catch up.

So just test, test, test and see what you get. And one of the first things I learned was how wrong those "recommended wick" charts are. It is more like a starting point so dont be surprised if it leads you wrong.

Good luck

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...

UPDATE:

After procrastinating due to the holiday (you would think I would be more productive), I finally did a batch today.

I did four containers: two 3 oz and two 6 oz tureens, four tealights (for scent samples), one 1 oz tart and I divided the rest up: one 3 oz melt tray and one 2 oz tart "votive (I was curious if it could be done).

So far, I like the way the tealights and 3 oz tureens came out. It was very smooth, even and smelled nice. The 6 oz tureens did not turn out smooth, though. It was due to the wicks not being straight and I moved it to another spot on the counter after I thought it had cooled enough... how wrong I was.

I used 24 oz of wax and heated up to 185 and added FO (1.15 oz of Honeysuckle and English Ivy from Wellington), stirred and cooled to 135 and poured into containers, leaving them to cool at room temp. The reason I used 24 oz of wax after guestimating that I would need this much (I weighed the containers, then filled with water to estimate how much they would hold).

VERY excited by my results so far. NO frosting, so far! I am thinking it was due to me putting it in a cool room to cool down. Right now, I put them in the upper oven to keep them out of the way (I read that here). I will let them rest for another day and then test (I am testing two types of wicks in each container: ECO 10 from CSci and Soy 2 from WSP for the 3 oz; ECO 14 and Soy 3 for the 6 oz).

I think I will try leaving the next batch on the counter/table to let them cool and see how this works.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Did the test burn at 11: 46 AM and all is not well. First, I made the mistake of not trimming the wick low enough, second issue was not being able to center the wick properly (I had no clothes pins at the time and tried using craft wire and wooden skewers). The smell is excellent cold and great hot (could not smell at first, until MP got going, but may be too light for a candle).

This is what they look like after a 2 hour burn (1:46 AM):

4 oz w/Soy 2 wick (WSP) - 1/2" MP, moderate mushrooming: index.cfm?fuseaction=viewImage&friendID=338137274&albumID=963670&imageID=9751354

4 oz w/ECO 10 wick (CSci) - 1/2" MP, horrible mushrooming:index.cfm?fuseaction=viewImage&friendID=338137274&albumID=963670&imageID=9751316

6 oz w/Soy 3 wick (WSP) - 1/2" MP, horrible mushrooming: index.cfm?fuseaction=viewImage&friendID=338137274&albumID=963670&imageID=9751314

6 oz w/ECO 14 wick (CSci) - 1/2" MP, no mushroom: index.cfm?fuseaction=viewImage&friendID=338137274&albumID=963670&imageID=9751352

This is what they look like after a 4 hour burn (3:46 AM):

4 oz w/Soy 2 wick (WSP) - 1/2 to 1" FMP, slight mushrooming: index.cfm?fuseaction=viewImage&friendID=338137274&albumID=963670&imageID=9751323

4 oz w/ECO 10 wick (CSci) - 1/2 to 1" FMP, horrible twin mushrooming: index.cfm?fuseaction=viewImage&friendID=338137274&albumID=963670&imageID=9751322

6 oz w/Soy 3 wick (WSP) - 1/2 to 1" FMP, moderate mushrooming: index.cfm?fuseaction=viewImage&friendID=338137274&albumID=963670&imageID=9751324

6 oz w/ECO 14 wick (CSci) - 1/2 to 1" FMP, horrible mushrooming: index.cfm?fuseaction=viewImage&friendID=338137274&albumID=963670&imageID=9751321

I found it interesting that some mushrooming cleared up on some wicks, while showing up in others. Sorry that I couldn't post the pics directly; I linked them from my MySpace page. I also will be getting some straight sided jars, as suggested.

Please let me know what you think... and thanks in advance!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I believe you need to wick down on all of them, especially the one that almost liquefied the WHOLE candle.

I usually like my mp to be only about 1/4 inch, but with my jars they taper at the bottom and the last little bit gets between 1/4 and 1/2.

Try wicking down and see if that helps with the shrooms also.

HTH some.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I was wondering if the jar played a role, too. I will try to use the smaller wicks on the larger jars and order the smaller ones.

The Soy wicks I bought from WSP is not working well. I will search, again, for wick suggestions on the board.

Thanks so much for looking!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The 4 oz is 3" and the 6 oz is 3.5". I used the wick guide from CSci when I first ordered my supplies and bought what they suggested. I searched the board and saw that logcabinmama (sp?) mentioned using CD wicks, so I think I will order some of these.

Does anyone have any other suggestions?

Thanks again!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I poured these candles at 115* and ended up with wrinkled tops. I realized I like pouring hot for the smoother tops (poured two testers at 150* tonight and got smooth tops). I experienced minimal frosting (I tried a version of tempering- by accident *L*).

Did test burn tonight at 8:50 PM; trimmed the wicks correctly and used clothes pins to try to center wicks.

After 2 hours (two views to see MP):

4 oz w/ECO 4 wick (CSci) - 1/4" MP, semi-centered wick; no mushrooming: http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=viewImage&friendID=338137274&albumID=963670&imageID=9820936

http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=viewImage&friendID=338137274&albumID=963670&imageID=9820941

4 oz w/ECO 10 wick (CSci) - 1/4" MP, looks centered wick; no mushrooming: http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=viewImage&friendID=338137274&albumID=963670&imageID=9820937

http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=viewImage&friendID=338137274&albumID=963670&imageID=9820942

6 oz w/Soy 2 wick (WSP) - 1/4" MP, off-centered wick; no mushrooming: http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=viewImage&friendID=338137274&albumID=963670&imageID=9820938

http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=viewImage&friendID=338137274&albumID=963670&imageID=9820940

6 oz w/ECO 10 wick (CSci) - 1/4" MP, semi-centered wick; slight bulb/slight wavering flame: http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=viewImage&friendID=338137274&albumID=963670&imageID=9820935

http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=viewImage&friendID=338137274&albumID=963670&imageID=9820939

After 4 hours:

4 oz w/ECO 4 wick (CSci) - 1/2" MP, small hang-up; small mushrooming: http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=viewImage&friendID=338137274&albumID=963670&imageID=9820945

4 oz w/ECO 10 wick (CSci) - 1/2" MP, slight hang-up; no mushrooming, but drowing flame: http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=viewImage&friendID=338137274&albumID=963670&imageID=9820946

6 oz w/Soy 2 wick (WSP) - 1/2" MP, even burn; small mushrooming: http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=viewImage&friendID=338137274&albumID=963670&imageID=9820948

6 oz w/ECO 10 wick (CSci) - 1/2" MP, even burn; large mushrooming:http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=viewImage&friendID=338137274&albumID=963670&imageID=9820944

(I hope these are in the right places... I am tired/sleepy while posting this)

Thanks for looking!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ok I dont know anything about ECO sizes but why are you using an ECO 4 and ECO 10 in the same jar? Are they really that close in size?

I think you got a few links mixed up, I think the second link for the 4oz ECO 10 should be switched with the second one of the 6oz ECO 10.

I cant really tell from your photos but it looks like the 6oz ECO 10 is doing the best as far as melt pool. Maybe try trimming the wick shorter than normal to see if you still get the shrooms, if so try wicking down one more.

The 4oz ECO 4 seems like it is going to drown out. Try wicking up just one size.

The other two look from the photos that they have a melt pool of half way down the jars, if so that is not good. Do you have any other pictures of them in better lighting?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Antonia! Thanks again for the feedback.

Yeah, I was tired, so I may have mixed the pics up (which is also why I didn't turn on more light when taking the pics before bed *L*). Unfortunately, I do not have better lit pics, will have to make sure I light better next time.

I tried the ECO 10 in the larger jar (again) with the wick trimmed properly as well as the smaller one to see if how it performed in another fragrance, in two different sizes. The ECO 4 was the only smaller wick I had on hand, so I tried it to see if it would work; it did great for the first 2 hours and drowned the last- so that sucked.

I now know that I will have to buy more wicks ASAP. I read CD's worked with this wax. Is this your experience or do you suggest something else? I am trying to get more options/opinions from you guys before I place another order.

This is so frustrating. *L*

Oh! And the batch I poured last night (@ 150* in cylinder, straight-sided jars) came out smooth with NO frosting! So excited!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well I dont use that soy wax but I do use CD wicks and I love them, of course I have only tried a few different wicks. I know tootie uses this wax and she also uses CD wicks so maybe she will chime in and give her two cents.

Good for you on being able to get smooth tops and no frosting. This is something that took me some time to master but now I have switched to a soy/paraffin blend and am having some more trouble with the top again. But I am trying to work it out.

Good luck and have fun testing some more, it really never ends.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I really think the no frosting was luck... I will check them again, when I get home to see if it stuck. If so, I know 150* is my number!

I will look into the CD sizes and see if I can find a size recommendation chart or a place that will give me a sample pack of all sizes.

I really am hesitant to keep testing in these tureens, being that I may not keep this style (I like the clean lined jars better now), but I will use what I have. Maybe this will be good research to see how multiple wicks perform (since I know I can reuse jars during testing) in different size (diam) jars.

I find I enjoy this more than I thought (the mixing), it is just the testing wick phase that makes me antsy (pouring, too). I know I have a long ways to go, but getting little glimmers that I MAY be on the right track (or even being able to see that I am not and to pinpoint what may be wrong) is encouraging.

My fiance is going to be SO annoyed when he sees more deliveries. *L*

Thanks, again, for your help!

Q

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I will look into the CD sizes and see if I can find a size recommendation chart or a place that will give me a sample pack of all sizes.

Here's WickIt's wick recommendation chart:

http://www.wickit.net/recommendations.html

JBN offers sample packages of the wicks they carry (CDNs, ECOs & RRDs). Most suppliers will provide samples upon request.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I dont do straight 464 anymore I mix it 50/50 with paraffin :tiptoe:

In my experience with this wax and ECO and CD wicks....I like the CD's better cause they consume wax slower than the ECO's.

I have never used the size jars you are using so I have no idea what size cd to tell you to try....:confused:

tootie

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...