just some comments on "high end" candles

[felixncharlie]

I'm fairly new to the art of candle making and have been pretty hard on myself as far as perfect containers,packaging and waxes that I test and so on etc.I know we all want to make the "perfect" candle-one that burns well and has a great throw so I went out on a very expensive mission to see just how well the "high end" candles burned compared to my own testers and here is a little of what I found.I am testing with soy so I purchased primarily soy candles but a few were a soy blend.I paid any where from 20.00 for 7 oz to 38.00 for 10 oz and so far I've tested 6 different brands that have beautiful packaging and a great scent throw but they burn about the same as mine do except some of their wicks are off center and one of them was very underwicked,just as the room filled with their great scent the wick was barely able to stay lit.So what I think I'm trying to say here is I think it may be all be in the packaging that makes these candles sell.If I did not make candles would I buy one of these?probably yes but I would not be a repeat customer and THAT is what I'm working on, not just getting someone to love your candles but to want them again and again.So do you think the average consumer really pays attention to the burn quality or do they purchase just for scent and looks??? Thanks for reading and your opinion.

[Candybee]

They do both. Some are into the high end candles just because the tradename is well known or they think because it costs an arm and a leg to buy it must be a good candle!

When I bought candles (before I started making my own) I would always buy ones that I recognized the name on and had purchased from before. So I always bought them from my own experience of burning brand name candles. Thats because I got tired of buying an unknown candle on a whim that turned out crappy.

Now that I make them I have repeat customers that tell me they like my candles so they buy from me again. Repeat customers are my best customers so thats what I aim for is getting new customers to try mine out so they become repeat customers.

[RNSandSCENTS]

I can tell you now in complete embarrassment, I am a candle wh*re. I have about 40 out in my house and ususally there is at least one burning all the time, well at least it seems that way. I stopped making candles about 15 years ago and recently started making them again....the reason? SOOT! My goodness, I could spend about $1000 a year buying candles from you know where but this year what I noticed....the jars are turning black ALL THE TIME! I can blow it out, let it harden back up, tirm the wick, and reburn if I am burning longer than a couple hours, and it did not matter. And then they have the audacity to raise their prices again! WTH! I pay attention to the burn quality, packaging and all that because I love candles and consider them a part of my decor. But the lack of quality and the price is what drove me back to making my own. Yes the consumers are paying attention....

[sudsnwicks]

You are right the upscale packaging has a lot to do with it. And don't forget the famous brand name. Having a celebrity endorsement also contributes to the brand name being desirable, sought after.

As for actual burn quality, I am not sure how many consumers even know what to look for. I don't know if the underwicking is a design flaw, or if it is because the manufacturer was afraid the consumer would not bother to extinguish the flame after the recommended X number of hours. A lot of people I've come across don't bother to read the burn instructions on the label.

Underwicked candles tend to leave a lot of leftover wax, and my grandma used to use these leftovers as pin cushions. I know she wasn't aware you weren't supposed to have so much leftover wax. She thought this was normal. I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of others consider these problems to be normal either.

[Guest jurnalynn]

ok i'm going to voice my opinion because i'm not a candle maker and i don't know what i'm looking for in a candle so maybe i am the best person to answer this...........all i own are party lite candles mainly because once a party is started in your group everyone gets suckered into having one, now with this being said i love the scents thats what i go for and i know that thier scent lasts i won't buy dollor store crap or even ones at walmart i still have lots because i am not an avid candle burner..........the main selling point that got me is when the hostess told me that if the candle where to get tipped and the wax got onto one of my babies it wouldn't burn them.........i still didn't like to burn around the kids because i was scared to that is why i still have a shitload of them i would burn them at night and my 3 wick is still sitting on my shelf gathering dust for the last 9 yrs

now that i have plenty of candles made by people here from swaps i think i will start burning them and compare

hope i helped

Laura

[CandleLytes]

I did the same thing. I was feeling a little insecure about my candles. I am really, REALLY hard on myself and try to get as close to perfection as I can. So I had some extra money and bought some candles from a few other candle makers. There is one I bought from a person on here and let me tell you, although she makes it seem like on here that her candles are 110% perfect, it is not at all what I expected. In fact, you can hardly tell the difference between my candle and hers, other than the scent, which I don't have. A friend of mine came in and asked how I made that candle and I said I didn't. even she couldn't tell the difference but she said I dress my up a little more. She told me she would buy both candles and doesn't care much about the packaging, but wants the scent and performance to be good.

Maybe it's 50/50. Some care about the name, others care that it smells good and burns good.

All I care is that people buy my candles, and they do. I love those words "I want another candle" LOL.

[CandleLytes]

Let me add that if I was a normal customer and not a candle maker, I would have been quite pleased with this woman's candle I used in my example. I was in no way, shape or form critisizing her candle. I was shocked because how similiar mine was to hers, and that's a good thing. Just had to add that.

[MissMary]

As for actual burn quality, I am not sure how many consumers even know what to look for. I don't know if the underwicking is a design flaw, or if it is because the manufacturer was afraid the consumer would not bother to extinguish the flame after the recommended X number of hours. A lot of people I've come across don't bother to read the burn instructions on the label.

I agree, but some of my candles from "famousee" high end places didn't have anything related to burn time - just trim before relighting, so I was burning sometimes for 10-12 hours a 16 ounce apothecary. This is also why I include not only burn info on my warning labels, but also inserts and a section on my site.

I've also compared my 16 oz. apothecaries to those "famousee" ones. I found burn times for mine were around 200 hours while theirs died after around 100-125 hours. I quote 50 hours more on my site of "big name companies", just to give benefit of the doubt.

Almost all of my candles burn damn near double what the pricier brands do, exception is the votives and my 4 ounces. Now that I know more about what a GOOD candle is - I've realized what a danger I've been to my family with other burning candles.

My candle budget a month ran around $200. I went through around 15 votives a day, always had several of those giant triple wicked pillars, several 2" and several 3" every three days or so. I was a candle NUT.

That's what started my mission to make my own - I thought - this HAS to be cheaper than buying them. While it is to an extent, I took the business route so someone else could share in my costs.

[Pam W]

Before I started making candles (pillars), I didn't know a candle was supposed to burn any other way - tunnel down the middle, trim off the excess as it burned and then throw away the leftover. I find that most people I make candles for are the same way - they don't know any better. I educate everyone that gets one of my candles - how to trim wicks & hug as it burns.

What I've found is that by teaching people the ins & outs of proper candle burning one thing happens - it's longer before customers reorder cause the candles last so much longer. So I'm wondering if this is possibly a motivation of the big candle companies - if they sell a crappier candle the customer has to come back & buy more sooner...hmmm

I've had countless people say ''your candles burn forever" and to hear that just makes my day

"now that i have plenty of candles made by people here from swaps i think i will start burning them and compare"

Laura

Laura: burn those babies - there is nothing better than homemade:wink2:

[Circle]

Branding is always important to people no matter how the candle burns!!!! Some companies have heaps of money and good marketing which makes them well known and branded, but maybe when they started small, they used to make the candles themselves and they were good, now they have worker bees who are not concerned about what the original chandler was:grin2: That is the way of the world. Right time, right place, right product and lack of other the same.

[MissMary]

Yep circle, I agree. It probably was at one time a great candle. Now it's mass produced, cost the least you can and jack up the price time. I will never go that route - if I have to, I'll get 10 of those.... Mark VII's. Of course, I'll probably never get that big but hey, I can dream huh?

Pam, that's an excellent point on coming back for more. I couldn't even begin to imagine how much I cut or burn with a lighter, excess wax on pillars, and how much was left after my jars. I'd probably run through town nakie just to get my hands on how much wax I've thrown away, including some pillars that wonked out after about 3/4 of the way down.

Just from what I had leftover, I made 30 3x6 pillars and 100 votives from my "yearly"collection. I used to burn a different scent for each season and couldn't keep throwing away all the glass and pillar bits. Crazy scents I tell ya, once I got them all down.

[Grumpy Girl]

I used to buy them when I worked. Yankmee is crap, always has been but I'd go for Votivo or Diptyque brand in a second.

I still splurge on Diptyque a few times a year. I call it "Market Research."

[stacien]

I thinks some candle companies just ask for too much $$$$. Parrafin wax alone is not very high in price yet YC ask a fortune for their candles along with CCC and Partylite. It's not that difficult to add fragrance to a maching and have them pour on an assembly line. It's basically hard to screw up Paraffin period! I have in the past gone to this one specific place in Door County Wisc. They have a big candle business out there and everyone always makes it there business to drop in there just to buy their candle. So I decided to see what all the hype was. I bought three jar candles. I burned them and sure enough they were very over wicked and over saturated with FO. The jars were black when I was finished not to mention. When I burned them the jars were so hot I could not pick them up. I paid the same amount as YC charges and bough a potential fire hazard. No, a lot of consumers do not buy candles for their quality. They buy them for the marketing, the scent and esthetics. They don't understand burn time or wicking. YC and the others just have to go by the guidelines to avoid liability with the ICGA.

I have said it before we are all too hard on ourselves with esthetics. I have seen globs of wax in a jar and people still buy it if it smells good. I have caught my own sister doing, because she likes candles in general and doesn't have the patience to wait for one of mine.

[Circle]

I thinks some candle companies just ask for too much $$$$. Parrafin wax alone is not very high in price yet YC ask a fortune for their candles along with CCC and Partylite. It's not that difficult to add fragrance to a maching and have them pour on an assembly line. It's basically hard to screw up Paraffin period! I have in the past gone to this one specific place in Door County Wisc. They have a big candle business out there and everyone always makes it there business to drop in there just to buy their candle. So I decided to see what all the hype was. I bought three jar candles. I burned them and sure enough they were very over wicked and over saturated with FO. The jars were black when I was finished not to mention. When I burned them the jars were so hot I could not pick them up. I paid the same amount as YC charges and bough a potential fire hazard. No, a lot of consumers do not buy candles for their quality. They buy them for the marketing, the scent and esthetics. They don't understand burn time or wicking. YC and the others just have to go by the guidelines to avoid liability with the ICGA.

I have said it before we are all too hard on ourselves with esthetics. I have seen globs of wax in a jar and people still buy it if it smells good. I have caught my own sister doing, because she likes candles in general and doesn't have the patience to wait for one of mine.

Paraffin wax has gone sky high due to demand, so I can't agree with your comment on this. It is more expensive than any other wax in my area at the moment.

[candlesprite7]

I have in the past gone to this one specific place in Door County Wisc. They have a big candle business out there and everyone always makes it there business to drop in there just to buy their candle. So I decided to see what all the hype was. I bought three jar candles. I burned them and sure enough they were very over wicked and over saturated with FO. The jars were black when I was finished not to mention. When I burned them the jars were so hot I could not pick them up.

I think I stopped at that place this summer. I didn't end up buying anything because as I looked at their votives I kept seeing air bubbles... aesthetically that wasn't pleasing to my eye.

[Pam W]

Pam, that's an excellent point on coming back for more. I couldn't even begin to imagine how much I cut or burn with a lighter, excess wax on pillars, and how much was left after my jars. I'd probably run through town nakie just to get my hands on how much wax I've thrown away, including some pillars that wonked out after about 3/4 of the way down.

A few days ago my neighbor came over asking for a candle - he's fridge had gone out while he was out of town and the house was somewhat smelly. He hasn't had one of my pillars before so I proceeded to educate him on how to burn it. Explained about trimming the wick and when I said, "and after each burn, that little bit of wall..."" right at that point he interrupted and said "I know, you cut it off"!!!!!!!!!!! I replied "like hell you do - my candles are engineered to burn so that there is no waste". I just happened to have one burning that was ready to hug so I showed him how it should be done.

My point to this is that the average candle buyer does not know how a pillar can burn if made and burned properly. I have two pillars burning right now that are self-consuming and every time I look at them, I'm just so proud of myself that it's almost silly.

[Sharon in KY]

A few days ago my neighbor came over asking for a candle - he's fridge had gone out while he was out of town and the house was somewhat smelly. He hasn't had one of my pillars before so I proceeded to educate him on how to burn it. Explained about trimming the wick and when I said, "and after each burn, that little bit of wall..."" right at that point he interrupted and said "I know, you cut it off"!!!!!!!!!!! I replied "like hell you do - my candles are engineered to burn so that there is no waste". I just happened to have one burning that was ready to hug so I showed him how it should be done.

My point to this is that the average candle buyer does not know how a pillar can burn if made and burned properly. I have two pillars burning right now that are self-consuming and every time I look at them, I'm just so proud of myself that it's almost silly.

I always loved hugging my pillars. Was obsessed with it, I would mess with them too much and break them. I should make me one just to feel the wax...

[Circle]

Certain waxes you can't "hug" so customers get confused. You have to make it clear to them.

[Tinker-ing]

I don't want to ruffle any feathers but it's all in the marketing/packaging first. After that it's the product. I know a lot of people who keep trying to tell themselves that if they have a good product that they don't need to spend the extra on the lid, box, label, embellishments, etc... BS! People buy into a "feeling". It's marketing and good marketing sells candles or whatever else you are trying to sell to your target market. The kicker is knowing your customer and finding a way to grab their attention. It's basic stuff like this that holds the average crafter back and keeps them from penetrating the mass market.

[2rottndogs]

Speaking only for myself... I don't give a rat's behind about embellishments. I don't care about the jar, the lid, the lable or any of the hangy thingys off the jar.

When I pop that top, it's the scent that grabs me and then the color.

When I buy a candle, I don't care about glass adhesion, I don't care if the top is smooth and frosting doesn't faze me. I want a good smelling candle that scents the room it's in.

Now as a candle maker... glass adhesion is important, I expect the tops to be smooth with as little frosting as I can achieve. I also expect my lables to be perfect and my jars to look their best.

Kimberly

[Gdawg]

I think the packaging of the candle says alot, and yes I think we are harder on ourselves for that perfect candle when reality is that the customer really doesn't know what a perfect candle/burn is.

[prairieannie]

I don't want to highjack this thread with a "low end" candle post, but I do have an experience to share that seems related to what's being discussed here.

It's been a LONG time since I've bought a candle. But a few months ago I was doing a little shopping at Walgreens, and they had an aisle display of soy candles with no labels. They did have a little hang tag on them, and the candle was pretty big.. I'd say 20oz, I'm too lazy to go check at the moment for sure. They were selling them for $8.00. I love sniffing candles, nomatter what kind they are or who makes them, and so I started sniffing them. There were only 3 kinds. Oatmeal Raisin Crumb Cake (or something like that) Some kind of Cranberry, and some kind of Mulberry I think. I wasn't crazy about the other two scents, but that Oatmeal Raisin candle had me at hello! As in" HELLO THERE YUMMY SMELLING CANDLE!!" So I figured, hell it's $8 I'll try it.

It's about two thirds gone now.. burning perfectly (double wicked), and so far the scent is still throwing like a major league pitcher!!! Absolutely wonderful!

It makes me wonder how insane people are to be so caught up in packaging and so unconcerned about the good stuff! I'll buy more of these candles I think, because they are the epitome of a perfect candle to me (other than the evil soy thing! I really hate that frosting after they are burned ) It was presented nicely too~ It has a black lid on it, kind of country style... overall it's really a great candle for the money! I'd pay more for it actually. Lots more!

On the other hand, it's too bad that whoever made the candle didn't do more to give it some brand recognition, because all I know is where I bought it, and if they are out when I go back, I'll have no clue where to find another. The hang tag is long gone, but I don't recall much info being on it anyway. Ahh well.

Anyone ever find a "low end type" candle that surprised them?

[felixncharlie]

yes prarie I did also find a "low end" candle at Wallymart.It was by candlelite and I wrote another thread on it. It was about 10-12 oz and 3.99 ! It burned beautiful and scented the whole house.This was in the same week I purchased an Aquiesse luxury fragrance tumbler candle.It smells great but mysteriously like bath and body works warm vanilla sugar and it was 30.00 and burns nothing like the cheapy but it was in beautiful packaging.I let it burn for 4-5 hours and it still has a lot of hangup and the wax discolored after the melt pool cooled but if I did not know anything about candles I probably would have been ok with it because the throw is so strong.I just don't know now because I am at a point where I'm finally starting to feel good about my wax blend/wick combo and throw and would like to start selling by spring (after insurance/legals of course) but I am having a hard time deciding to get custom printed boxes $$$$$ or get boxes from a place like papermart.com and add my custom printed labels on them?? What have some of you done regarding packaging?

[Caramel]

If and when I begin selling (or even giving them away), I thought about buying nice boxes and printing simple labels and tags/decorations. Because I will not be coloring my candles, I will have to depend on scent and packaging to catch the buyers attention (I figure dressing my containers may be a bit easier since I also make jewelry as a hobby, so I have materials to work wrt packaging).

Being a beginner, I only have experience with either drug/craft store candles and candles from YC or BBW. Looking at them now, I notice things I would have found normal before. But, as a buyer, scent was ALWAYS the top priority for me; the pretty package was a bonus. It is funny, but color attracts me too, not by much, but it draws your eye (even when unscented), yet I don't want to be bothered with color because 1) yet another wicking issue I don't want/need, 2) one less expense and 3) trying to come up with colors for each scent.

[bugtussle]

I do not sell packaging, I sell very good candles. This year, I got very pretty white boxes (with clear logo labels) for all my larger candles and offered them both ways. I still have most of the boxes left. Most of my customers are only interested in a good candle. Just my observation! Carole