Tried and true scents not throwing the same

[Holly]

Have any of you ever experienced tried and true scents not throwing the same? I am now experiencing another one that is a top seller and has been for 4 years that is not throwing as strong from the same company. I am not sure if it is a wax variance that just may not be throwing these oils as well anymore or an oil variance. It is very dissapointing and concerning. I have been getting great scent throws lately on a lot of new oils in the same wax. I don't really want to mention where I get them from and what ones they are because since I am not sure yet if it is the oil or not, it would not be fair to the supplier. Just wanted to know if anyone has experienced this before and what the outcome ended up being for you. I know it is not my nose -- my consultant/tester noticed it when she took a 10 oz. new candle of it to a show to burn as a sample. I then pulled one off my shelf and lit it, and I feel the same way. I tested a 16 oz. last night that was below the halfway point and it seem like it does much better in the 16 oz. at a lower level -- possibly because it gets hotter than at the top of a 10 oz. The 16 oz one did travel, but it still did not seem as good as it used to be, but not a total dud. The 10 oz. though is not passing my standards, so far anyway at the point it is at. Thanks for any input.

[Darbla]

Seems like somebody posted this same type of question recently, and some were wondering if the companies are using cheaper ingredients in formulas and not telling us.

Darbla

[Holly]

Seems like somebody posted this same type of question recently, and some were wondering if the companies are using cheaper ingredients in formulas and not telling us.

Darbla

Thanks. Yes, I think I remember a post that was similiar but could not remember for sure. If I remember correctly, it may have been a thread Bugtussle posted. Maybe Bugtussle will jump in here. I know there was a thread regarding wicking inconsistencies with certain oils and I was having this problem as well with some other fragrances. I do remember a few months ago having to change wicks with this particular oil -- had to go up a size (same type of wick though). I should have tested it for scent throw as well at this time but didn't. It really was a tried and true oil for scent throw and a very best seller. Regarding the wicking change a few months ago, I am not sure if it was because of the oil or the wax. My other oils seemed fine. I am really frustrated and this is not a good time to have problems like this. I have sold several of these scents recently and just got a fundraiser order in for several orders of one of the scents. I discontinued the other scent. When I was running a test for another soy I did notice that this scent threw well in this other was (organic) but then again it was in the 16 oz. jar and it does better in that jar in my current soy as well. This scent used to do really well in the 10 oz. jar in my current soy. I am going to have to run a test in the other wax in the 10 oz. jar and if it is better in that wax, I will have to use that wax for this scent for the fundraiser orders. What a pain in the butt!

[VerticallyEnhanced]

Here is one:

http://www.craftserver.com/forums/showthread.php?t=75940

[Holly]

Here is one:

http://www.craftserver.com/forums/showthread.php?t=75940

Thanks,

Yes, I remember that one too. That was one of them that the candle maker was getting the burn inconsistencies -- weak flames -- and those who responded suggested that it could be from the manufacturers using different.ingredients, etc. I just ran a search and found one from Brenda(OH) and Bugtussle mentioned she posted the same problem with decrease in scent throw but could not find that thread. Apparently, something appears to happening. It has happened more this year for me. I don't recall having a problem like this in the previous years....not that I know of anyway. Maybe I am just cathing the problems better this year, not sure.

[Judy, USMC]

Wonder if the FO's being "reformulated" to remove the phthalates has anything to do with it? Just a thought.

[Holly]

Wonder if the FO's being "reformulated" to remove the phthalates has anything to do with it? Just a thought.

I have read some about this on this board. It could be. I really do not think it is the wax, because I am using batches from last year since my supplier had discontinued it and did not get any newer batches this year.

What does the Phthalates do I wonder? If this is the case this is going to be a real drag if it keeps happening with one after another.

[Judy, USMC]

Found this by doing a search. It's by no means a comprehensive answer but it is interesting!

http://www.chemicalbodyburden.org/cs_phthalate.htm

The plastics labeled with a Recycle 3 in the triangle can leach them. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phthalate#United_States

And, of course, a link to the opposing view point http://www.phthalates.org/yourhealth/index.asp

Interesting reading!

[SliverOfWax]

Holly, I'm having a lot of wicking problems with comfort blend that I never had before. I think the wax is messed up, not the fo. Just my opinion. I have no proof.

I retest every new bottle of oil I get, even if it's a scent from the same supplier that I've used for years. Don't ask me why. Glutton for punishment, I guess. I just feel more comfortable doing it that way. Lately, I'm having to wick up on almost everything. This would be the last 4 boxes of comfort blend I've bought. It's giving me fits.

Another thing to consider. Everybody, including Farmer's Almanac, is saying this is going to be a very cold winter. People won't be able to afford to keep their houses as warm as usual. That's going to also require some wicking up. I mentioned on another board that I'll bet this winter, we get a record number of complaints from people who have bought our candles for years and now find they aren't burning the same.

Just something to look forward to. lol

[bugtussle]

There was a lot of talk about FOS being weaker, but I can't bring it up. It disappeared. Carole

[SliverOfWax]

I'm not finding that to be the case with the suppliers I use. I make a lot of wickless, too, and perfume, other things besides candles with wicks. The fo I use is behaving the same with products other than with wicks.

[LeeAnn Carlton]

Have you changed cases of wax? Different batch numbers? I recently switched wax(due to that very problem) and I have a few oils( Two most favs) in my new wax that is giving me fits! I am having to change my wick fo to tweek this fragrance! And my leather is driving me crazy! I am very picky...have tried every leather and the one I use isn't acting like it did! If I can not get it to behave to my expectation...I will have to move on to a different supplier. (anyway just a little food for thought....) Have a blessed day, LeeAnn~

[Holly]

I have had a few wicking inconsistencies as well and have not yet determined what caused this. The problem I am having right now with a particular oil is decrease in scent throw and the more I run tests the more I am coming to the conclusion that it is the oil. I am really irritated. It would not be so bad if I did not have outstanding orders for it with a fundrasier. Although, I hate the thought of what I have sold lately that to me would be considered a duddy scent throw.

You are smart to test every bottle. If I bought in larger quantities, I would definitely have tested each batch I got. But, since I have to budget I don't buy them in large quantities. I have to admit this year I have been tempted to test every single bottle that I get. I wish they had batch numbers on the fragrance oil bottles like with wax. This way we would know when to do a test. I do random tests from time to time, but maining for wicking.

Regarding the cold and that many may not keep their houses as warm, what a lousy thought of more problems possibly emerging. So far, I have not noticed a big difference in wicking with bot extremes. We keep our house pretty cool in the winter (60-63 and maybe 65 at times). I do wicking tests in the shop mostly though and I will say that my shop when working in there is warmer than my house -- I think. When I found some wicking issues (weak flames) recently it was in the summer and I think it was either the oils or possibly the wax.

Thanks for the response.

Holly, I'm having a lot of wicking problems with comfort blend that I never had before. I think the wax is messed up, not the fo. Just my opinion. I have no proof.

I retest every new bottle of oil I get, even if it's a scent from the same supplier that I've used for years. Don't ask me why. Glutton for punishment, I guess. I just feel more comfortable doing it that way. Lately, I'm having to wick up on almost everything. This would be the last 4 boxes of comfort blend I've bought. It's giving me fits.

Another thing to consider. Everybody, including Farmer's Almanac, is saying this is going to be a very cold winter. People won't be able to afford to keep their houses as warm as usual. That's going to also require some wicking up. I mentioned on another board that I'll bet this winter, we get a record number of complaints from people who have bought our candles for years and now find they aren't burning the same.

Just something to look forward to. lol

[Holly]

I'm not finding that to be the case with the suppliers I use. I make a lot of wickless, too, and perfume, other things besides candles with wicks. The fo I use is behaving the same with products other than with wicks.

You are fortunate that you have not experienced any problems with inconsistencies with scent throw. I am becoming less confident now and will probably end up like you -- run a test with each bottle I get - especially if a long enough span is inbetween purchases.

[Holly]

Have you changed cases of wax? Different batch numbers? I recently switched wax(due to that very problem) and I have a few oils( Two most favs) in my new wax that is giving me fits! I am having to change my wick fo to tweek this fragrance! And my leather is driving me crazy! I am very picky...have tried every leather and the one I use isn't acting like it did! If I can not get it to behave to my expectation...I will have to move on to a different supplier. (anyway just a little food for thought....) Have a blessed day, LeeAnn~

Thanks LeeAnn,

I have considered this as a possible problem. But the more I test this oil the more I am coming to the conclusion it is the oil. I have wax that is last years wax (from the same batch I used last year). I will admit though that I am not positive how long the decrease in throw has been going on. I had not tested this fragrance for scent throw in a while. It was so tried and true I was not too concerned about it. I will say though that there was an issue that came up with another oil from the same company and I did think that maybe I better test the rest but just did not get around to it. I did retest it for wicking and caught that I had to wick up, so this tells me it was an inconsistency with something -- oil or wax. Some of the other scents that I retested for wicking to make sure were find in the same wax - wickes stayed the same.

It looks like I will have to discontinue the scent.

[Sharon in KY]

What scent and who is it by? Maybe others are having problems with this scent too.

[Holly]

What scent and who is it by? Maybe others are having problems with this scent too.

Hey Sharon,

I am not sure if I should post it yet. I have not yet contacted the supplier yet. I have had trouble before with another scent from the same supplier so in all fairness at this point I don't want to become a thorn in their side. I will PM you.

~Holly

[LeeAnn Carlton]

If your other scents are peforming good then yes it could be the fo. It was originally our wax but with our new formula, We are having difficulty with a few of our existing scents...we are trying different wicking but the fo might not be compatible with our new wax...we will see! One FO at a time! Wish you luck! LeeAnn~

[so-soy]

IMO the only way people are going to now if there is any relation between what problems others are having and what you are having will be for everyone who has any type of problem to list what wax wicks and fo and jar. That is the only way to see if there is any connections with others. I am not saying it would automatically make it a suppliers fault either, they (the supplier) could be getting something different from their wholesaler and not even know it, kwim? This is the worst time of year for these suspicious troubles to be happening and could possibly destroy some people. I hope who ever has any type of these problems start listing stuff all in one thread for everyones sake. Good luck Holly I hope you get it figured out!

[LeeAnn Carlton]

There are so many different factors for a wax not to perform. Some has nothing to do with the supplier or yourself, has everything to do with the wax/fo combo just doesn't work. And some of you(as myself) found the fo/wax combo that worked for you, and then for whatever reason...you changed wax,and the same fo doesn't work!( our problem)It is not our supplier its the combo not working! However our wax did change to begin with, that is why we are on a new wax formula. Gosh are any of us sane? Anyeway I hope that makes sense, if not maybe someone else will say it better. Have a blessed day, LeeAnn~

[Holly]

IMO the only way people are going to now if there is any relation between what problems others are having and what you are having will be for everyone who has any type of problem to list what wax wicks and fo and jar. That is the only way to see if there is any connections with others. I am not saying it would automatically make it a suppliers fault either, they (the supplier) could be getting something different from their wholesaler and not even know it, kwim? This is the worst time of year for these suspicious troubles to be happening and could possibly destroy some people. I hope who ever has any type of these problems start listing stuff all in one thread for everyones sake. Good luck Holly I hope you get it figured out!

Hi,

Thanks for the response. Yes, I agree. I wanted to state exactly which scent and from where but since I don't think it is right at this time to state it on the board right now (can't really explain my reasons but there is a reason), there was no point in giving out the other info. I decided to just post a question in general wondering if others have experienced this sort of thing -- tried and true oils not throwing as well as it did before. I should have stated though......tried and true oils not throwing as well in the same application that has been used - type of wax used, wicks and jar.....not a different wax, type of wick and jar.

Anyway, I ran a test in another wax that I had gotten a really good throw with this oil when I had ran a test on this wax as a possible wax replacement (have to change soy real soon here) and it is not doing well in this wax either. This is an oil that is known to be a really good oil and many have gotten very good results over the last few years. I should have said it has been a best seller for me for 3 years not 4 -- did not start selling until the end of 2005, but I have used it for about 4 years.

I am really bummed out and I need to figure out what I am going to do for the fundraiser orders.

[Holly]

Ok, I guess I can at least tell everyone what kind of scent -- not that it will help that much if you don't know which supplier.

It is Orange Chiffon Cake and is not from KY. I am desperate to find a replacement right now.

[stacien]

Come to think of it. I normally order Buttercream from NG and this last bottle I ordered isn't as strong as it usually has been.

Have any of you ever experienced tried and true scents not throwing the same? I am now experiencing another one that is a top seller and has been for 4 years that is not throwing as strong from the same company. I am not sure if it is a wax variance that just may not be throwing these oils as well anymore or an oil variance. It is very dissapointing and concerning. I have been getting great scent throws lately on a lot of new oils in the same wax. I don't really want to mention where I get them from and what ones they are because since I am not sure yet if it is the oil or not, it would not be fair to the supplier. Just wanted to know if anyone has experienced this before and what the outcome ended up being for you. I know it is not my nose -- my consultant/tester noticed it when she took a 10 oz. new candle of it to a show to burn as a sample. I then pulled one off my shelf and lit it, and I feel the same way. I tested a 16 oz. last night that was below the halfway point and it seem like it does much better in the 16 oz. at a lower level -- possibly because it gets hotter than at the top of a 10 oz. The 16 oz one did travel, but it still did not seem as good as it used to be, but not a total dud. The 10 oz. though is not passing my standards, so far anyway at the point it is at. Thanks for any input.