Pinholes and fingernailing

[cybersix]

well,

the last five candles: two came ot fine, three completely covered by pinholes. I really don't know what to think. I had to heat gun a lot, but this I did to every candle.

My wax can go up to 195 F but no more, I try to be really careful, anyway I'm using direct heat so I can't be precise as a thermostat.

I'm using vybar at 0.5% and FO at 5%.

I guess I could use a bit more vybar without clogging the scent, but I don't think this is the real problem.

I was thinking to a test pillar I did some week ago, it came out from the mold so smooth and perfect and I didn't even babysit it because it was just a test.

The difference is in that I weighed the exact amount of stuff I needed for one pillar, melted in a small pot and poured in the mold. No bubbles, nothing at all.

I'm going to remelt the three ugly pillars one at a time, each one in a small pot and pour directly from there, to see if skipping the ladle thing can help me some.

Thanks Julie for trying to help!

[grama]

I found the stearic and vybar and pouring at around 170-175 took care of my problems. I don't fill my pour pot with a lot of wax because it seems to hit the mold "heavier" thus creating bubbles thus making the pinholes. I don't pour over 2 lbs at a time when pouring pillars. Of course I don't do pillars on a real large scale either.

[Scented]

If you're on direct heat without knowing the temp, you could possibly be pouring too hot. Just like if you're heat gunning the mold for long periods of time, the wax is just too hot. Those bubbles should lift off a heated surface and not return. You could try poking the bubbles free too.

Some additives help with surface imperfections.

[cybersix]

I found the stearic and vybar and pouring at around 170-175 took care of my problems. I don't fill my pour pot with a lot of wax because it seems to hit the mold "heavier" thus creating bubbles thus making the pinholes. I don't pour over 2 lbs at a time when pouring pillars. Of course I don't do pillars on a real large scale either.

thanks grama,

I'm using only vybar because I didn't have any problem until now.

if I change the recipe now I have to re-test the candles and I won't be able to ship my order in time before august.

I have only 1 lb of wax at a time in the pour pot, I'm doing 3x4.5 pillars and I weigh te exact amount I need to fill one at a time!

[cybersix]

If you're on direct heat without knowing the temp, you could possibly be pouring too hot. Just like if you're heat gunning the mold for long periods of time, the wax is just too hot. Those bubbles should lift off a heated surface and not return. You could try poking the bubbles free too.

Some additives help with surface imperfections.

Mt thermometer is always in the pot and I check it constantly, just because I'm using direct heat. It may go to 194 F but then I let it "cool" at 176 to pour.

I had the suspect that heat gunning too long could make the problem worse but I'm at the point I don't know what to do. I mean, I'm not a newbie with paraffin and pillars!! I'm ready to fight with soy and contaneirs because they are new to me, but not with pillars!!!!

[Scented]

I know you're not new at this. Honestly if those things didn't work, maybe adding a little steric might help, but it's befuddling me why you've got the prob. Wanted to be sure on the heat though. At that temp there really shouldn't be a prob, but wonder what happens if your pour even 5 degrees higher then.

[Groovy Chic]

Too much heat will cause the pinholes. Excessive stirring will cause the bubbles. Pour your wax in the pour pot and let it settle before pouring. Pour it down your wick at a steady pace. Don't overheat your mold, that will also cause the pinholes. Check your thermometer. It may be time to buy a new one. A good way to test the thermometer is to use two of them side-by-side. Is the fragrance a good quality? Lean toward pouring at a lower temp and maybe do a tester @ 160, 165 and 170 and note the differences. Best of luck to you, I hope you can figure out the cause(s) of your problems.

[cybersix]

I know you're not new at this. Honestly if those things didn't work, maybe adding a little steric might help, but it's befuddling me why you've got the prob. Wanted to be sure on the heat though. At that temp there really shouldn't be a prob, but wonder what happens if your pour even 5 degrees higher then.

Hi julie, I know you weren't saying I'm a newbie it was a vent LOL!

I don't know what to say. I'm remelting the three ugly candles. Bubbles released in wax, and they won't go away. I'm melting in a smaller pot. The big bubbles pop and go, the little tiny shiny bubbles are still there. I'm tapping the pot, I can see tons of them, they stay there. But why!!!!!!

[cybersix]

Too much heat will cause the pinholes. Excessive stirring will cause the bubbles. Pour your wax in the pour pot and let it settle before pouring. Pour it down your wick at a steady pace. Don't overheat your mold, that will also cause the pinholes. Check your thermometer. It may be time to buy a new one. A good way to test the thermometer is to use two of them side-by-side. Is the fragrance a good quality? Lean toward pouring at a lower temp and maybe do a tester @ 160, 165 and 170 and note the differences. Best of luck to you, I hope you can figure out the cause(s) of your problems.

Hi Groovy Chic thanks for chiming in. Just checked the thermometer agains a digital one and it works fine. Or both are broken LOL, they tell the same temp.

I don't usually heat molds, I just made them a little warm because I though it could help releasing bubbles. The FO should be fine, it's made by Daystar, and besides I already had a little similar problem with other FOs.

My guess is that the problem it's in the wax somehow. Tomorrow I'll call the supplier and check to see if there is omething I can do.

I mean I always do the same thing in the same ways, I just can't understand.

[cybersix]

ok another little update.

I let the wax cool dwon in one pour pot. I saw some bubbles of liquid on the bottom!!!!!!! Now, my thought is that the little bubbles I see are water, that I keep on moving heating with heat gun and tapping the mold, so they don't have the time to sit somewhere. Or the pillar cools to fast for them to settle on the bottom.

Maybe with the pillars I heated a lot with the heat gun the water evaporated. Those aren't zillions of new bubbles forming, but are the same running around.

I poured the wax once again in a pan, when it's cold I'll check for water.

But what brought water in?

I already tested the paraffin alone and there wasn't any water. The FO I don't think it's the problem, I already had it happen with another FO. Additives? Vybar and UV inibhitor??

Oh I'll think I'll die!!!!

[topofmurrayhill]

Any air in the paraffin will go away as soon as the wax melts. If I ever saw bubbles that didn't go away, I would assume something is very wrong with the wax.

However I think those bubbles are probably all water. To test that, simply hit the bottom of your melting pot with the heat gun and you will see/hear the water boiling off. Keep your face away from the wax if there's a lot of it.

It's a very common thing and a real pain in the ass. I don't know how the water usually gets into the wax. It might be cooling water from when the slab was poured, or it might get picked up during shipping and storage, or both. In any case, you can gently melt the wax and pour it off the water droplets.

Fingernails are equivalent to mottling. More additive will get rid of it, but I believe moisture in the wax can contribute to the problem.

[cybersix]

Any air in the paraffin will go away as soon as the wax melts. If I ever saw bubbles that didn't go away, I would assume something is very wrong with the wax.

However I think those bubbles are probably all water. To test that, simply hit the bottom of your melting pot with the heat gun and you will see/hear the water boiling off. Keep your face away from the wax if there's a lot of it.

It's a very common thing and a real pain in the ass. I don't know how the water usually gets into the wax. It might be cooling water from when the slab was poured, or it might get picked up during shipping and storage, or both. In any case, you can gently melt the wax and pour it off the water droplets.

Fingernails are equivalent to mottling. More additive will get rid of it, but I believe moisture in the wax can contribute to the problem.

Hello Top,

thanks for your thougths.

I did heat a piece of the slab above the water boiling point and herad no sound or rumors at all. and saw no bubbles in there.

So my guess is that it could be one of the two additives, or the color blocks.

I'm excluding FO because as I said I had it happen with different FOs.

I'm thinkinh the slabs are ok because the test I made for water was "negative". But then I end with those little bubbles. they are like the point of a needle. They don't pop.

I'm waiting for the wax in the pan to cool completely, that's the wax with all the ingredients I saw bubbles of liquid on the bottom forming.

Who knows. and everything happens when I have to deliver an order.

[Scented]

If it's a straight paraffin, what about going without the vybar ... you could try this, always able to add it if needed, but that might give you an idea if it's that which is causing the moisture. You'll have to eliminate one at a time and see.

If it's just moving around, it's got to be moisture, especially if it won't go away. Next, it could almost be FO. I've had some that simply stayed on the bottom like a sludge. Not saying this is the case, because it would be minute if you're just getting bubbles down there. Also, the candle would leak or ooze with the stuff if it won't blend (which it has done for me on more than one occasion.)

I'd start with process elimination if you've poured off, cooled and bubbles are forming ... see if you're able to draw any moisture out by patting it. If you're getting this on transfer, the water will stay at the bottom. Stay away from pulling wax off the bottom.

[cybersix]

If it's a straight paraffin, what about going without the vybar ... you could try this, always able to add it if needed, but that might give you an idea if it's that which is causing the moisture. You'll have to eliminate one at a time and see.

If it's just moving around, it's got to be moisture, especially if it won't go away. Next, it could almost be FO. I've had some that simply stayed on the bottom like a sludge. Not saying this is the case, because it would be minute if you're just getting bubbles down there. Also, the candle would leak or ooze with the stuff if it won't blend (which it has done for me on more than one occasion.)

I'd start with process elimination if you've poured off, cooled and bubbles are forming ... see if you're able to draw any moisture out by patting it. If you're getting this on transfer, the water will stay at the bottom. Stay away from pulling wax off the bottom.

I will try elimnating one by one the ingredients but my suspects now are concentrating on the UV inibhitor. It's the one I never use for testers, in which I didn't have any problem. And it's a fine powder, it could have absorbed moisture.

Who knows. I will test and see, thanks to everyone!!

[SatinDucky]

Just a couple thoughts...

Do you used primed or raw wick? If you're getting air bubbles show up in the mold even after they gone in the pot, it could be from the hot wax displacing air in the wick. It would continue to make air until it's all out (which takes a while even with hot wax) or until the wax cools enough to stop soaking in (in which case the wax would be too thick to let them float to the top as well).

I get pinholes usually from the wax or molds being too hot. Then again, I think many people use the term of pinholes for different round surface flaws, so that can make it confusing too. I've noticed that my tin molds are much more likely to get them than aluminum, even under the exact same conditions.

[cybersix]

Just a couple thoughts...

Do you used primed or raw wick? If you're getting air bubbles show up in the mold even after they gone in the pot, it could be from the hot wax displacing air in the wick. It would continue to make air until it's all out (which takes a while even with hot wax) or until the wax cools enough to stop soaking in (in which case the wax would be too thick to let them float to the top as well).

I get pinholes usually from the wax or molds being too hot. Then again, I think many people use the term of pinholes for different round surface flaws, so that can make it confusing too. I've noticed that my tin molds are much more likely to get them than aluminum, even under the exact same conditions.

thanks SatinDucky,

but these little shiny needle heads are in the pots. I actually found water, but just in one pot. while the "little bubbles" are in every pot....

what I don't understan is why using a lot the heat gun when wax is in the mold I can salvage them..... still need to test my ingredients!

[Scented]

cuz you shouldn't use the heat gun a lot. It isn't going to evaporate any of your water. You'd have to hold it there for longer than necessary and wouldn't be able to hold the mold to make sure you're getting all of what you see type of thing ... jmo.

Now you say it's water. Might be best to clear your pots and wipe the stuff out if you're still seeing it. If that's where the heart of the problem is then need to find a fix for it and if the pot is leaking ... get/use another pot.

[MissMary]

Any update on this? Did you get the culprit? I've been watching this thread like crazy in case it ever happens to me, I just wish I could be helpful about it.

[cybersix]

Any update on this? Did you get the culprit? I've been watching this thread like crazy in case it ever happens to me, I just wish I could be helpful about it.

Hi Miss Mary, I have no update for now because I'm stuck with another problem. I won't be able to do some serous tests until I'll be back form holidays, I need to finish some candles then I'll leave.

As soon as I have an answer I'll post it here! Thanks!

[cybersix]

A little update.

I accidentally poured one pillar hotter than I use to do, and it was perfect, no pinholes or bubbles at all. So now I'm pouring pillars and votives (I had the same problem with votives also) at 185 F instead of 176F and I have no problems. Fingers crossed, I hope this is not only a coincidence!!!

[Circle]

Sometimes pouring fast does cut down on the air bubbles, I know it is against the rules, but it does work. You have to add stearic or vybar, though

[grama]

If you use wick pins for your molds then pouring down the pin instead of directly into the bottom of mold helps to cut down on air bubbles/splatter on side of mold.

[NrthTxWind]

I use paraffin, but I use Micro as a additive in mine. Had the same problem.But it was not putting enough Micro in it.

[cybersix]

thanks again for your opinions, but I think I found the problem. Pouring some degrees hotter got rid of pinholes, while fingernailing was solved adding a pinch of vybar more.

Probably my paraffin likes a slightly hot temp to become smooth and shiny!