Is this OK?

[cybersix]

Hi all, these are pics I took of my soy testers.

When they cool down I get those white lines against the container sides, is it normal?

Never saw a soy container candle in all my life, so I have to ask about almost everything, sorry!!!!

Thansk for looking

[islandgirl]

Yes.. That is perfectly normal..

They look good!!

Love the jars/glasses!!

[cybersix]

Yes.. That is perfectly normal..

They look good!!

Love the jars/glasses!!

Thanks IslandGirl!

The glasses aren't mine, I get them directly from the customer ( a big company, if everything will be of satisfaction for them I'll be their candle manufacturer).

Wha I don't know is what I should expect from this wax, really, never saw soy here.

So do you think they are quite fine? Do you see something wrong?

Thanks!

[Vicky_CO]

They look about normal for soy after the burn. Soy is not a pretty wax once it burns.

[islandgirl]

Cybersix.. They look good so far..

Even the tops of the candles are normal.

Was that your first burn?? Hows the scent throw??

Do another burn and post another picture..

We will help ya!!

Hope the Big Company works out!! CONGRATS.

[cybersix]

thanks girls, actually they burned for three to four times already.

I have one shot of the tops too.

I'm pretty satisfied with the hot throw, I let them cure at least for 48 hours because I noticed scent gets better, and they throw more.

I agree, soy wax is really ugly after burning, and my customer didn't know it though they asked for a vegetable wax. I'm trying to make them understand that is not paraffin.

Thanks a lot!!

[ah-soy]

I haven't made an all soy candle for about 3 years, but those look awfully nice to me...as I recall, mine looked just like that after burning. Looks like you're getting a clean burn at the top. Let us know as it gets down into the jar if the glass gets too hot.

[islandgirl]

t

I agree, soy wax is really ugly after burning, and my customer didn't know it though they asked for a vegetable wax. I'm trying to make them understand that is not paraffin.

Are soy candles are not big Italy??

This could work out great for you then!!

Your tops look fine, and your burn looks nice and clean!!!

Especially for the 4th burn!!!

[cybersix]

I haven't made an all soy candle for about 3 years, but those look awfully nice to me...as I recall, mine looked just like that after burning. Looks like you're getting a clean burn at the top. Let us know as it gets down into the jar if the glass gets too hot.

thanks.

the big challenge to me it's that tall glass, because if I use a wick too small it won't burn the sides in the first burns, but since it's so tall it has a looong way to go to the bottom...

[cybersix]

Are soy candles are not big Italy??

This could work out great for you then!!

Your tops look fine, and your burn looks nice and clean!!!

Especially for the 4th burn!!!

no, they aren't LOL, but candles in general are not big!! We don't have soy beans. here candlemakers work with paraffin and beeswax mainly.

I have 7 scents to test in three different containers. It will be a very long way!

[Stella1952]

Sabrina, the white line is frosting where the temp has changed the crystal structure. Using a "100%" soy product, this is to be expected as well as slightly lumpy tops. The NatureWax C3 that I use, which is soy-based (but has other ingredients and veggie oils in it) does NOT have ugly tops after burning, nor do some of the othe soy-based blends like EcoSoya; however, I understand that those products are not available to you and that you are working with what you have, so I think things are looking fine.

My only suggestion would be to order some USA to see if it would help smooth the wax and reduce the frosting a little - maybe it would and maybe it wouldn't, so it would simply be something you'd have to test to see how it worked for the wax you are using.

I think you're doing a great job!

[Circle]

Sabrina, the white line is frosting where the temp has changed the crystal structure. Using a "100%" soy product, this is to be expected as well as slightly lumpy tops. The NatureWax C3 that I use, which is soy-based (but has other ingredients and veggie oils in it) does NOT have ugly tops after burning, nor do some of the othe soy-based blends like EcoSoya; however, I understand that those products are not available to you and that you are working with what you have, so I think things are looking fine.

My only suggestion would be to order some USA to see if it would help smooth the wax and reduce the frosting a little - maybe it would and maybe it wouldn't, so it would simply be something you'd have to test to see how it worked for the wax you are using.

I think you're doing a great job!

Stella, I thought the Naturewax C3 was 100% soy??

Sabrina, what soy wax are you using?

[cybersix]

Sabrina, the white line is frosting where the temp has changed the crystal structure. Using a "100%" soy product, this is to be expected as well as slightly lumpy tops. The NatureWax C3 that I use, which is soy-based (but has other ingredients and veggie oils in it) does NOT have ugly tops after burning, nor do some of the othe soy-based blends like EcoSoya; however, I understand that those products are not available to you and that you are working with what you have, so I think things are looking fine.

My only suggestion would be to order some USA to see if it would help smooth the wax and reduce the frosting a little - maybe it would and maybe it wouldn't, so it would simply be something you'd have to test to see how it worked for the wax you are using.

I think you're doing a great job!

Hi Stella,thanks a lot.

Take it with the benefit of doubt, the importer todl me it's pure soy.

I know USA or beeswax could improve the look, but I'm trying to avoid complications in getting supplies. So first I'll wait to know what the customers think of the appearance, then I know I have some other things to test.

Thanks again!

[cybersix]

Stella, I thought the Naturewax C3 was 100% soy??

Sabrina, what soy wax are you using?

Circle, I don't know what this soy is. I knw it's one of those you have available there, and it's supposed to be pure soy, its melting point should be around 135 F.

This is the only info I have!

[islandgirl]

Stella, I thought the Naturewax C3 was 100% soy??

It is soy (97%) and( 3%) other botanical oils..

Mary @ NatureWax had told me this a few years ago..

It could have changed since then??

It is sold as 100% Soy, but is not????

[TheQueen]

Yep, looks like soy to me. Not pretty but neither I nor my customers seem to care. I tell first-time customers that soy wax doesn't make a very smooth top but they burn well. They don't care.

[Stella1952]

...sorry for the hijack, Sabrina... :embarasse

Stella, I thought the Naturewax C3 was 100% soy??

C3 is not sold as a "soy based wax." The MSDS lists its ingredients as "Hydrogenated Vegetable Glycerides." The word "soy" hasn't appeared on their website for at least the past year, if not longer. NatureWax C3 is labeled "premium vegetable wax." I would think that if, in fact, C3 IS 100% soy-based that they would shout it from the rooftops.

From a Sept 2007 thread, Del Craig of Cargill/NatureWax asserted:

"Our NatureWax® C-3 is manufactured with soy based wax and soy based additives. There is nothing in the NatureWax® C-3 wax that is NOT soy based."

http://www.craftserver.com/forums/showthread.php?t=59783

However, I had a telephone discussion (only days before his post) with a NatureWax rep where I was told that not ALL the ingredients are, in fact, soy-based. So, I have to assume that there is a certain percentage of "spin" and hype contained in the "100%" statement made above.

One has to be careful about exactly what the term "100%" actually means to the person asking the question and to the person answering it... As Top pointed out in the thread above where we previously discussed this, there is no industry standard that regulates how much soy anything has to be in a wax for it to be marketed as soy, let alone "100%" soy.

So, to say that C3 is "100% soy" may not be exactly as it sounds... It is certainly a very different product from the "100% soy" waxes sold by other companies, which are super-hydrogenated soybean oil shortening.

My current belief (subject to change as new facts are learned) from what I have been able to piece together is that the majority of the wax (hydrogenated vegetable glyceride) contained in C3 IS from soybean oil and that it does contain other ingredients and vegetable oils of an unknown percentage which give it the smoother, more stable properties than one sees with true 100% hydrogenated soybean oil waxes. I do not think there is anything inherently "evil" contained in it and I think that by calling it "premium vegetable wax" is NatureWax's way of being as straightforward and honest as they can about their trademarked, patented product formula.

These may seem like fine points, but as anyone who has used several different soy-based products can attest, there is a lot of difference in the appearance, performance, handling and other physical and chemical characteristics of the different products. I don't think that NatureWax is being dishonest (by current marketing standards) - their actual ingredients are closely guarded trade secrets (as are EcoSoya's, etc.), so one simply has to go with the most probable explanation. It is no accident that folks have been told different things at different times by different reps... Until there is an industry standard that forces manufacturers to disclose their ingredients in order of content (similar to food labeling), none of us will *know* what the ingredients are or their approximate percentages.

Sorry - didn't mean to divert the subject of this thread because of my personal war against marketing hype! :embarasse

[Circle]

Thanks, Stella.

Good luck Sabrina and please keep us updated with these burns

[cybersix]

hey girls I need another hint!!

I made other two candles, can't take pics right now, I let them burn (one burned for almost ten hours because I closed the room and forgot it, but everything was fine) and now that they are cold they don't have that white line!!!!!

I "tempered" the wax as the first time, maybe this time I stirred more, could this be the reason of no white frosting lines against the glass?

Or different FOs maybe, until now I tested three scents, and this set of candles in one scent is the one that doesn't have white lines.

Hope this makes sense!

[Sharon in KY]

This white stuff is a real puzzle. I sent some wax years ago to Golden Foods and ask what it was, but no one knew. Sometimes I would get it when my Presto Pot cooled. It's not frosting as we know it. It's more a powder that melts when you rub it between your fingers. I thought if I could just strain it out but it turns to liquid wax can't see any difference when melted. Plus it may disappear completely next time you pour. I have a chunk of wax from at least 7 yrs ago that hardened in my pour pot with the white in it. This may look different than what you have but when new it was a white powder. How do you guarantee it never happens??? I don't know, some batches are worse than others. And adding beeswax helps with long term powdering. Also Clean Wax worked but they quit making it. Sorry I'm no help...

[Stella1952]

It's not frosting as we know it. It's more a powder that melts when you rub it between your fingers.

It may look different, but it's the same thing: it is an area where the crystallization of the wax has changed to an undesirable form. Whether it's frosting, bloom, the dreaded white line or cauliflowering, it's all because soy wax is polymorphic and can change its crystalline structure because of its sensitivity to temperature change (especially heat).