Candle Warmers & Vegetable Wax WARNING

[TartAddict]

Yikes. I was reading the instructions for my new candle warmer (Sensible Aromas by Provo Craft...Wal-Mart). It says, "Never use the warmer with vegetable wax based candles. Using vegetable based wax candles on the warmer is likely to cause the candle to explode." Holy Moly!!

Anyone know if this is true for parasoy candles?? I was planning on giving relatives some parasoy wickless and candle warmers for Christmas. Now I'm not so sure. Phoeey.

Anyway, just wanted to pass along the warning.

D

[Fire and Ice]

I don't know but I would go ahead and test them on the warmer but keep it close and on a plate incase it does shatter.

Personally I don't like candle warmers. I'd much rather use an electric tart burner myself.

[TartAddict]

I'm with you on the tart warmers. I love my tart warmer. I just figured it was cheaper to give the warmers ($4.49) and wickless than an electric tart warmer ($19.99). But I guess if the dang thing is going to explode, I'm better off with the tart warmer...don't want to burn down my relatives and childrens' teachers' homes, LOL.

[DatCandleMaker]

Could it have something to do with the Flash Point of the vegetable waxes? I know the flash point of IGI Comfort Blend and Harmony Blend are 190 or so.

Dat

[TartAddict]

I'm not sure. Fern-Marie did a test on warmers and came up with the following:

Here are the results of the tests on the candle warmers:

Cozy Warmer from Michael's: After 3 hours, inside pool is 160 degrees, underside is 125 degrees. The plastic sides of the plate, on top, felt too hot to me, I had a hard time handling it. I burnt my fingers.

Aroma Warmer from Lakeside Collections: After 7 hours, inside pool is 163 degrees, underside is 115 degrees. The plastic sides of the plate, on top, did not feel hot, and I did not fear a burn when I touched it.

[Kaybee23]

Could it have something to do with the Flash Point of the vegetable waxes? I know the flash point of IGI Comfort Blend and Harmony Blend are 190 or so.

Dat

I don't think that would be it. Cargill C3 has a flashpoint of greater than 600 degrees. Ecosoya has a flash point greater than 450 degrees. Not sure why they would recommend not to use with vegetable wax based candles. That is a new one on me.

[topofmurrayhill]

Could it have something to do with the Flash Point of the vegetable waxes? I know the flash point of IGI Comfort Blend and Harmony Blend are 190 or so.

Dat

LOL, since when do we use Celsius around here? I'm not afraid of calculating things but it can get tiring after a while. That would be about 375F.

When we talk about explosions we're usually talking about flash point but I don't think that can be the case here. The flash points of soy waxes do seem to be comfortably high. I wonder if it has something to do with uneven heating that could make the jar erupt due to pressure from the bottom. Just pure speculation.

Kind of related to this subject, I seem to periodically hear about soy tarts smoking. I think this is probably not the best wax for making tarts. It may not be possible to get it hot enough to explode, but I think it scorches a lot more easily than paraffin. Just for the sake of irony I would like someone to document the toxic fumes undoubtedly emanating from a smoking soy tart.

[BruceCarvesWax]

Could be because soy doesnt shrink much and would not release from the sides so when you melt it from the bottom up the pressure builds up and blows like a volcano from the expanding melted wax under the top unmelted cap. Bruce

[TartAddict]

Go Top Go! I nominate you to not only document the smoking tart's toxic fumes...but to test the exploding soy theory!! "

Doesn't that sound like fun?

On a side note, the insert in the candle warmer package also said:

"By way of example only, many White Barn Candle Co. Candles are made with a vegetable based wax."

I'm wondering if they've got some lawsuit with people who used White Barn Candles and had them explode. Seems odd for them to single out one company.

[topofmurrayhill]

I'm afraid I don't have the equipment to document the toxic fumes, but the exploding soy candle would kick ass.

[faerydust]

okay guys i just made up 13 wickless candles with igi comfort blend for the warmers!!!! yikes...i figured its nice and soft & has a low melt point & would be good for the 17 watt warmers i purchased!!! of course i am going to test but has anyone done wickless with this wax? i was brainstorming yesterday after making up a soy/blend candle that had no throw & i threw it on my warmer to see if that workd and the wick just wasn't right. i have had that candle on my warmer everyday for a week w/no problem and smells great. this is what prompted me to make up the wickless w/cb..i thought it was a great idea! i have 25lbs still hanging around that i never tested to much because of the gooey factor..lol now i am freaking out after reading this...lol

p.s...i found warmers in a boxed set with a mug included at the christmas tree shop for 1.99!! they had them in red, green and blue & go perfect with the different baskets i am going to make up for the craft fairs. after reading about peoples exploding warmers i am going to plug them all in for a few hours before i put them in the baskets to see if they get to hot. i have had one from michaels for over a year with no problem at all. and most of my friends/family have them to from michaels with not problems either.

[hawaiiansun]

I rarely use veg wax in tarts or wickless candles, however I've used soy in a tin on my warmer and no explosions, and I've also used Astor Q in baby tins, food jars and jelly jars with no explosions. These were wicked candles that didn't pan out. I leave my warmer on at home.

Best thing is do extensive testing, check your glassware for cracks and keep it in a safe place. If you have doubts I'd say don't use it

good luck

[faerydust]

hi there! i have used soy as well in all kinds of containers to!! if i have left over soy when i am making containers i pour tarts and either use them for myself or give them to my mom. never any problem. if i put them in a tealight warmer they smoke so i figured the burner is much better!! i use c-3 for my soy wax.

i am worried about the comfort blend now...ughhhh i didn't realize the fp was only 190. if you look as the msds it says it can support a flame above the flashpoint. i would hope so sometimes those flames can get pretty warm, especially if wicked wrong in testing..ask me how i know , logically i would think that using it on a warmer would be better because there is no flame involved. & the warmers are only 17 watts so don't get super warm. well i just threw one on the warmer so we shall see!!!

[topofmurrayhill]

i am worried about the comfort blend now...ughhhh i didn't realize the fp was only 190. if you look as the msds it says it can support a flame above the flashpoint. i would hope so sometimes those flames can get pretty warm, especially if wicked wrong in testing..ask me how i know , logically i would think that using it on a warmer would be better because there is no flame involved. & the warmers are only 17 watts so don't get super warm. well i just threw one on the warmer so we shall see!!!

The flashpoint of comfort blend is 190C or 375F.

[hawaiiansun]

Let us know your results Faery good luck

[faerydust]

thanks guys....have i said lately how much i love this board???

[TartAddict]

Yes, good luck I made up some wickless with Ky Parasoy and now I'm wondering if I should even bother testing them. I think my dh would disown me if I had exploding candles all over the house

[faerydust]

hahahaha i don't know if its the candle so much as the warmer..LOL

i read a post from back in october that said they were having trouble w/the warmers! i really do use soy tarts all the time in my little dish on the warmer with no problems at all. go ahead and give it a test run.

i have had the comfortblend on my warmer now for about an hour completely melted down and no issues so far :smiley2: ...i just made it yesterday and its so strong i want to shut it off..LOL

[DonnaGA]

Could be because soy doesnt shrink much and would not release from the sides so when you melt it from the bottom up the pressure builds up and blows like a volcano from the expanding melted wax under the top unmelted cap. Bruce

I'm with Bruce....I think would be true of any container fill, ESPECIALLY paraffin since it has a higher volumn increase when melted.

my 2¢,

Donna

[Mtngrl]

Just for the sake of irony I would like someone to document the toxic fumes undoubtedly emanating from a smoking soy tart.

You are too funny.

Besides, if anyone uses electricity to make soy candles, they just defeated the whole purpose of soy. lol. It would be interesting, though, to compare the emissions of all types of candles (inlcuding palm, blends, etc). The truth of the matter is, I think, that none of us really knows what we put into the air when we burn any candle.

[Fire and Ice]

LOL, since when do we use Celsius around here? I'm not afraid of calculating things but it can get tiring after a while. That would be about 375F.

Kind of related to this subject, I seem to periodically hear about soy tarts smoking. I think this is probably not the best wax for making tarts. It may not be possible to get it hot enough to explode, but I think it scorches a lot more easily than paraffin. Just for the sake of irony I would like someone to document the toxic fumes undoubtedly emanating from a smoking soy tart.

Well I make soy clamshells and have never had a problem with them smoking. But them I'm placeing them in a TART Melter and not a candle warmer.

I've never heard of tarts smoking unless they are not made properly like not properly incorperating the F/O into the wax.

[topofmurrayhill]

Well I make soy clamshells and have never had a problem with them smoking. But them I'm placeing them in a TART Melter and not a candle warmer.

I've never heard of tarts smoking unless they are not made properly like not properly incorperating the F/O into the wax.

joyofsoycandle had that problem when someone put one of hers in an oil warmer instead of a tart melter. I've heard about that sort of thing a couple of times so I figure it's happening often enough. You don't really know what people are going to put the tart into. I just figure that if they smoke sometimes and paraffin smokes never, then paraffin is a better wax for tarts. Once the tarts start to smoke, they're toxic regardless of what they're made of, so why not make them out of the safest material?

[faerydust]

well i had the wickless jar made with the comfort blend on all day and it was fine . i just had to shut it off no more smells for me today!

as for the soy tarts smoking i think when they are in the tealight warmers and the flame is to close is when it happens. in my experience anyway. i no longer buy the burners that are smaller or for oils but you can't really control what others put them in so i just assume keep them for friends/family at least they allow me to educate them...sometimes... lol

[Fire and Ice]

joyofsoycandle had that problem when someone put one of hers in an oil warmer instead of a tart melter. I've heard about that sort of thing a couple of times so I figure it's happening often enough. You don't really know what people are going to put the tart into. I just figure that if they smoke sometimes and paraffin smokes never, then paraffin is a better wax for tarts. Once the tarts start to smoke, they're toxic regardless of what they're made of, so why not make them out of the safest material?

The reason why is because my customers want soy. I'm one of the VERY FEW soy candles makers in my area who know how to work with soy wax. I give out a flyer with ALL clamshells that tells them not to use the oil warmers nor the stove top! I tell them what to use and what not to use. It may take a little extra time to type out the flyer and run them off on my copier but I have never had customers complain and many tell me thanks for the info. It's all bout safety with my products.

[topofmurrayhill]

The reason why is because my customers want soy. I'm one of the VERY FEW soy candles makers in my area who know how to work with soy wax. I give out a flyer with ALL clamshells that tells them not to use the oil warmers nor the stove top! I tell them what to use and what not to use. It may take a little extra time to type out the flyer and run them off on my copier but I have never had customers complain and many tell me thanks for the info. It's all bout safety with my products.

I'm not saying you don't do all that you can do. I'm just suggesting the possibility that paraffin may be safer. It's a reasonable discussion point.

There is no absolute place to draw the line on safety. It's all a matter of relative risk. I've heard a few people mention smoking soy tarts. Someone on this board said it only happens with soy and they wouldn't make soy tarts for this reason. Personally I've heard enough to make me doubt it's a suitable material for the product. We don't make customers anything they want.