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415 and wick drowning


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So what's up with this anyway? There's a recent thread about it, but it also appears in many old threads. Sometimes it's discussed as an issue with a particular batch of 415, but it really seems more like a constant theme with this material. Apparently a lot of people have seen it.

Personally I saw it with an older batch of 415 I had a while back. I see it again with a newer batch while test burning the tempered candles I've been playing with recently, both with and without USA.

It's been suggested that you need to trim wicks longer with this wax, but I'm not buying it. If I start out with a wick trimmed to 1/4" and the candle takes off fine and the flame and melt pool develop fine, seems to me it should not be fading out at the tail end of a 3 hour burn. I don't see why special trimming instructions should be necessary. You might think a larger wick would be the solution, but I find that weird too. You wouldn't think an ECO 10 would choke that easily and it really does look adequate for these small test tumblers I'm using. With other soy waxes I've done tins of this diameter using smaller wicks without any sign of drowning.

I've noticed 416 does nothing like this. It burns very freely compared to 415 and never drowns wicks. My best guess is that 415 is an extra thick and viscous wax. I'm thinking maybe if the FO is on the thin side it ends up separating in the wick and traveling up faster than the wax, until finally the tip of the wick is fried. I'm just racking my brain trying to understand what's happening.

Anybody have an opinion on this?

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Your going to find out not alot of FO's work well in 415. I couldn't find a Candy Corn that works in it. I bought from at least 6 different suppliers with no luck. But then again I only tested it with the 2 main wicks I use for my wax. I figured if it didn't work for them, it's not worth it.

Top, lately I have been having some tunneling issues to wicking is not the problem. I called my supplier and they haven't changed anything. What I have been doing lately is filling the container half way letting it set, then pour the rest of the wax into the containers. That seems to be helping, but the only thing wrong with that is if your just making 1 candle at a time then it's very time consuming. I think it's air pockets.

I to at one time thought that wicking might be the problem and a longer wick means a better mp with my wax. But all it did was make the wick mushroom.

Mindy :)

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I did notice it varies with the FO. Even though some work better, I would have to say on the whole this wax doesn't burn very well from what I've seen. Once you're searching for wicks and FOs that prevent the candles from dying, seems to me maybe the choice of wax could be the real issue.

Mindy, if your problem is air pockets that's a different matter. Sounds like your containers are larger than what I'd normally use, which might make it tricker. I think you'd want to be pouring very cool, but remember it's about the wax consistency and not just about the temperature. That can be two different things so don't get too hung up on the thermometer. Stir it well and wait for it to get a little thicker before you pour.

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... and don't forget to rap the surface where it sets or the container itself and poke some relief holes as it is cooling. The idea when agitating the container is to allow the air bubbles to collect and break free to rise to the surface to break. Because the wax skins over the top first, you may see the air bubbles just below the surface. With soy wax, many times I can poke relief holes while the candle is still soft and setting up and there is no trace later. If you poke holes and do a second pour later, be SURE to make the holes large enough for the wax to penetrate into the air pockets and fill them before it hardens. Little skinny holes won't get it.:wink2:

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Not sure I'm down with that advice Stella. People talk about bubbles in containers after pouring and I have yet to see one with any kind of wax unless maybe the mixture was overheated with the fragrance.

Soy is enough hassle without getting into two pours or heat gunning the top. Besides the extra work it's just another opportunity to create frost. I think the idea here is to adjust the pour so you don't get contraction and pockets around the wick. If you pour straight soy at the right consistency, it's too thick for anything to be rising to the top. The whole shebang solidifies in minutes.

I tried my 402 tumbler yesterday. That stuff seems to burn a whole lot better than 415.

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Hey top! Long time.

I have not had drowning wicks when using zinc cored wicks in the 415/402/USA blend I have. My big problem has been having some wicks being too hot, even with the smallest size. For instance, I have double wicked a 3 1/2 inch keepsake jar with LX14 and it was still too hot, even with the heaviest of FOs. I can't single wick or the sides don't clean, unless I marathon burn :grin2:

Of course, I have been working off the same batch I bought last year. I'm down to my last 75 lbs out of 250 lbs.

The 415 batch that had drowning issues was last year, and was from MC IIRC. I had some old stuff from them that was doing the same thing, so that's when I bought from CStore.

geek

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If you pour straight soy at the right consistency, it's too thick for anything to be rising to the top. The whole shebang solidifies in minutes.
The air bubble thing is a problem and I am not disagreeing with you about getting the temp and consistancy correct so that the air pockets do not form - it's a fine line. Not only do you have to hit that "sweet spot" for a single pour, a little too cool or untempered and the candle does the major spitty thing when burned. Sure is tedious to wend one's way htrough the soy wax minefield, but it feels so GOOD when ya get some that work and look perfect without blowing up getting there!:laugh2::laugh2::laugh2:
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Hey Top, what date do you have on your 415. Been working with a batch from May and it is so nice and I just got another batch from Sept, haven't tested it yet. Just wondering when the hard to wick stuff was made.

I don't have a date. I use a different 120-125 MP straight soy for my parasoy work and I get that in cases, but I've only bought the 415 in smaller test quantities so it's been packaged up in plastic bags.

I can tell you that I first noticed the mediocre burn with 415 I got well over a year ago. I still have a little of that, but I got more recently and it seems about the same. It's basically impossible that those two samples are from the same lot. I also just got an additional batch from a different supplier but haven't tried it yet.

I think maybe you can see something like this with the Ecosoya waxes too. I've gotten samples of CB-Pure with pretty mediocre burn qualities, but the CB-135 reliably burns much better. I'll betcha the GB 435 burns better than the 415.

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My big problem has been having some wicks being too hot, even with the smallest size. For instance, I have double wicked a 3 1/2 inch keepsake jar with LX14 and it was still too hot, even with the heaviest of FOs. I can't single wick or the sides don't clean, unless I marathon burn

A long time ago when I still thought it might be worth designing veggie candles, I also found it was tricky to avoid having the double wicked containers really take off and get too hot.

Have you tried to see what difference it makes to leave out the USA? That stuff can be a mixed blessing. With more of a tendency to burn downwards sometimes the burn isn't as consistent from beginning to end and the flames start getting a little tall.

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