Testing C-3

[MoonShadow]

I must be a glutton for punishment... but I am testing yet another wax. For the C-3 users, what temp are you adding FO?

Thought I'd get the temps fine tuned before I move on to the REAL torture...wick testing!!

TIA

[Carriegsxr6]

i usually heat to 170, add color stir, then add fo right away and stir. let cool to about 140 and stir a little bit again, then pour.

[grama]

I was looking at Nature Wax for that very same info. I have just started testing the same wax. They said to heat to 175 then add dye, fo. Let cool and pour between 155-165. This speeds up the cooling and curing. They say never heat over 200. They recom 6% fragrance load = 1 oz pp. That is what I did with mine this am. I am also using ECO wicks, seems to be the preferred wick that candlescience recom. :undecided hth

[kimmeroo]

I also use C-3 and heat to 170*,add color and fo then cool to 160 then pour.I have had good luck that way so far and smooth tops. I have only had one that frosted the rest are ok.The one that frosted my mother took,so maybe it was the change of atmosphere??? I try not to let that bother me,as soy is a natural wax and who can predict what kind of natural reactions may occur?:smiley2: HTH....

Kimmeroo

[Stella1952]

I add FO to C3 between 150° - 165°. I have added it as low as 130° with no ill results. HTH

C3 does have minor frosting issues which can be ameliorated by

1) using USA (from JBN) and/or coconut oil

2) tempering the wax

After testing a lot, one can predict frosting. It occurs worse with certain FOs and with certain colors. Just because C3 is a "natural" wax does not mean its properties are unpredictable. I have found C3 to be very stable and consistant, provided that my methods are the same each time I pour. HTH

[Rae]

I am also testing C-3 and it's my first with soy. I have been pouring at 125

because that is what CS recommends. Is that why my candles aren't smoothe and not a good HT? I tried adding CO yesterday so I will see if that

helps. How long do you all normally cure C-3?

Thanks!

Rae

[Stella1952]

Rae, I am not sure why your C3 is not giving you a good hot throw - could be the FO itself, could be the wicking, could be the temp at which you added the FO... If you add 3% USA (from JBN), it will help smooth out the tops, depending upon how you are cooling them, of course. If they are cooled too quickly and unevenly, nothing will help the tops! I doubt if the coconut oil will help smooth your tops much - it's mainly used for frosting issues. One supplier claims it helps with hot throw but I am not sure I buy that...

You didn't give us much to go on!:undecided

[Rae]

Sorry, Stella, I am testing with a 3" whisper jar, 10 and 16 ozs. I added 1oz pp of Brandid Pear (CS), and no color, at 170 (only because my wax got hot so quick compared to my blends). I let it cool down to 125 as suggested by

CS. I used a LX-26 wick. This candle has been through three 4hour burns. I only get a 85% melt pool.

BAck on 7/31/07 I used C-3 with 1oz pumpkin pie (CS0 and added 3 crops of

burgandy. I melted to 160 and poured at 150. I noticed it on my shelf the other day with what I thought was frosting, white stuff around the inside of my jar. Used the same jar, 10oz 3" wide whisper jar. I also tested at the same time with the FO of Home Sweet home. Same as the previous candle.

Used the LX-16 and then changed to LX22 with never getting a full melt pool.

That is why I tried the LX-26 this time. I just checked the candles and still

no full melt pools. I do clean and heat my jars before pouring!

I changed to soy after getting the 1343 in pellets and it not working and then I was one of the lucky one who got some of the bad IGI-6006. Am trying to find a dependable wax like 6006 was to me for over 5 years.

Any suggestions would be highly appreciated.

Rae

[AAngels]

Let's see I don't put the FO in until right before I pour. I melt everything in my pot until temperature reaches 180 and cool until 155. Then pour in FO and pour. No problems. I love c-3.

[kandlekrazy]

I think the C3 is pretty forgiving when adding fo. I've tried adding at different temps and got the same results. I add it at about 170, just because that's the temp when I transfer to my pour pot and it's easier for me to add right away. I also found that I have to pour between 110-125 to get a smooth top and for it to cool properly in the container, but I know the weather factors in, so depending on where you're located can change your pour temp. I've also found that different suppliers have different recommendations for this (and other) wax, so you just have to test out different ways until you find one that works for you.

[grama]

Just finished burning my 8oz jj scented with Nostalgia from JS. 1oz pp using an eco10 wick. For people that will say "SOY DON'T SOOT" - they need to see my jj. Boy, it is horrible. Don't know if wicking down will help or not, not sure how it will burn. My 10oz apoth jar wicked with 2 eco6 burned fine, very little to none sooting. May need to decrease the fo to about 3/4 oz. Anybody tried that fo?

[Stella1952]

I think the different FOs and different colorants from different sources cause a LOT of variations in outcome! I use several different suppliers for FOs and each one has some FOs that, for me, are "duds." I originally did not add the FO until the last second, thinking that the heat might cause it to lose some potency, but have since learned from the good folks here that some FOs will not incorporate into the wax well at lower temps; so now, I add the FO at around 150°.

I can only imagine how difficult it must be to have to switch from a product that you KNEW and worked with for so long! I just looked at the WickIt Recommendations chart and the wicks you used are within their recommendations... Can't help ya there... I use CDN wicks and like them very much. I seldomly have a wicking problem, although there have been a few candles where I wished there was an in-between size (like a 13!)

C3 does have frosting issues, so I researched how frosting is handled by chocolatiers (again, thanks to some wisdom from here that pointed me in that direction). I learned two things:

One, that the addition of certain oils (coconut oil was one mentioned) helps to emulsify and smooth the mixture;

Two, that people pouring chocolate temper their mix by "seeding" and another method I am embarrassed to say I can't remember the term for... The one thing both tempering methods had in common was that the mixture is stirred gently but constantly during the tempering process all the way until it is poured. It takes on an almost velvety appearance right before pouring...

Another factor I remember from fudge-making is how important it is to bring the temperature up and hold it at that temp, stirring constantly, for a certain amount of time, then gradually lowering it to below the pouring point, then raising it again to the pouring temp, stirring all the way. This is what makes fudge creamy instead of gritty.

Pouring at higher temperatures also contributes to frosting, which, in combination with the burgundy colorant you used, is probably why that particular candle frosted more. Certain brands/types of colorants seem to cause more frosting than do others, as well as certain colors (dark reds have always been a little "ticklish" for me).

The only tips I can offer are these:

1) Temper the wax prior to pouring; stir gently but continuously after the wax melts

2) Pour on the cool side

3) Space containers apart on a rack so that there is good air circulation all around the candles

4) Allow to cool in a place with no air currents - under a big box is good or in the oven (doesn't have to be on or heated) - so the containers cool evenly all around, especially on top

5) Use USA for the best tops

6) Note which FOs and colorants give you frosting issues and avoid those.

7) Add coconut oil if you have a lot of trouble with frosting

As kk mentioned, many folks have reported that weather - ambient room temperature, humidity, barometric pressure - does seem to have an effect on both the appearance of the candles and on the wicking. Earlier this summer, there were several threads where chandlers were reporting suddenly having problems...

There are a LOT of variables which can gang up on ya to cause problems. It's hard to point a finger at one or another and say, "this is IT!" All I know to do are the things I have suggested here and to simply try different combinations... Like several other folks have reported, I have just not had much trouble with C3 - the difficulties I have had have been mostly minor issues (such as whether the dye or the FO were causing frosting, etc.). Take good notes and just go through the process of elimination until things start working out for you. HTH

[Stella1952]

For people that will say "SOY DON'T SOOT" - they need to see my jj. Boy, it is horrible.

Yeah, you right, grama! I have a couple of FOs that tend to produce more soot than others... isn't that ALWAYS the way?!! The one I like looks like I've been burning old tires in the container!:rolleyes2:laugh2:

[kandlekrazy]

I also thought that the ECO wicks produced more soot than others.

[grama]

Well - after I finally found that little key thingie that unlocks the bathroom door:o I checked my Nana's Favorite Apple Butter or something like that from JS and the cd12 is really burning horrible, looks like no chance for it to catch up and it's been burning about 3 hours. Think I will just give up on the jj jars or maybe soy period and go back to what I mostly know

[Rae]

Stella....thanks so much for all the good input. I poured another C-3 this afternoon and increased the FO to 1.5 ozs and covered the top with workshop paper towels to cool. The top is soooooo smooth. Can't wait to burn it. I also went back to ECO wick to try that. I am also testing GB464 to see which one I like better. So far the problems I have had with C-3 are so much less than the problems with the 464.

I remember your thread on Palm wax and I learned alot from that. I printed it off and put it in my book.

You are always so helpful to everyone and, I for one, really appreciate you.

Thanks again!

Rae

[AAngels]

I am a firm believer in this because this is what past ladies in the biz told me, don't trim the wick when u first light a jar, let a soy burn for 2 hours, then snuff out, before relighting trim carbon ball. U should never have any soot at all. I don't at all. This is even with Eco 10 with C-3. I have told all my clients in the past about this.

[grama]

AAngels - I will have to try that with my jj and eco10 the next time. I always trim my wicks pretty short.

What gets me though is that now, my jj with cd12 wick is burning very good, but it took it about 6 hours to get a good burn. I did use 1&1/4oz pp of this - the Nanas Apple Butter. So, what wick to use?

[grama]

Well, at least for Nanas Apple Butter and jj I will be using the cd12 and trying what AAngels said about leaving the wick long. It makes sense though, at least to me. Gives the wax a chance to get hotter and then when you relight it burn better. My cd12 is burning perfect in my jj, good scent throw, and absolutely no soot. May just go with the cd for all the jj. Started burning the apoth 10oz this am with NAB with 2 cd6 and it is burning good. Clean, no smoke. Seems the CD might be my preferred wick instead of the eco.

[wiscwicks]

I'm new to candle making and selected C-3 to start. Heat to 160-180, add dye, add frag, pour between 150-160 "slowly", then I put a cardboard box overtop to slow down the cooling.... that's what my directions say and it's been working fine - for the most part. Beautiful tops, great adhesion to the sides, no frosting.

*Problem is, two days later, if the house is too cold, the wax does pull away from the sides of the jar. Any recommendations to stop this, or is that just the "beauty" of a soy candle?

*Also, chose to use Libbey Whisper 3oz, 12oz, 18oz jars. Anyone have a successful wick recommendation with the bigger jars and this type of wax? Local candle supplier doesn't have all the different wick types out there, so I'll have to order from somewhere, and want to "aim close" to the right choice. I saw one recommendation in the forum here of eco 14.

Signed, eager newbie with too many questions. Sorry it's so long.