Wickless candle safety!

[littlebrownbug]

Has anyone out in candle land ever made a wickless palm wax candle in a 10 oz. apothecary jar(or anyother jar for that matter)? If you have,did you ever have any trouble with it.....like having the jar explode on you? A friend of mine did this last week. He wanted me to make one for his gf and so I did. I did warn him that he would in effect be testing this for me as I have never made a wickless palm wax candle before and did not know how it would do on a candle warmer. Now I know! Never had one made of soy do that so I am wondering if a wickless palm candle should even be attempted or not or is this an isolated incident??? Please help....it could happen to you!

Mike

[Vicky_CO]

I think after that I would stick to using tins for them because if it happened once it will happen again. As hard as palm wax is this happening to you does not surprise me.

[kinipela]

I had emailed one of the suppliers of palm wax a while ago about using it for melts and wickless, and they said they did not recommend it.

[littlebrownbug]

I agree with you too Vicky....it won't happen again as we have decided not to make them in jars anymore....I like your idea of using tins....much better Idea....where's that light bulb at when you need it. I will test with some tins and see how that works.

Mike

[littlebrownbug]

I believe it kinipela....I know Mia Bellas doesn't recommend it for their candles and that is no doubt the reason why.

Mike

[Stella1952]

Mike I am so glad you tested this and posted your findings!

It doesn't matter whether the wickless candle is made from soy, palm, paraffin or earwax, the problem is using a GLASS container on direct heat.

For all the unbelievers who swear they have used glass on warmers for the past 100 years without a single problem, consider...:

If even PYREX warns not to use it over direct heat, perhaps it's more sensible not to use glass from ??? over direct heat...

I managed to crack a Visions pot (a glass product from Corning designed to use as cookware on other than gas stoves) after using it with no problems for 15 years - and before anyone goes to conjuring ideas about cold & hot, it cracked on a day like any other day under the same circumstances it had been previously used for years. That's the way glass IS!! It doesn't take some extreme temperature or planetary alignment for a glass object to suddenly decide "today's the day."

All it takes are for the invisible stresses inside the glass structure to increase or weaken it to a point that it cracks. This is usually invisible without viewing the glass object with a polarizing stressometer.

All glass is NOT created equal!! Using a glass container that has not been manufactured according to ASTM standards for DIRECT HEAT APPLICATION is asking for trouble.

If ya wanna spring for Pyrex or laboratory grade glass or the stuff from which they make glass cooktops, go for it, but it's best to use containers made of some other material for direct heat applications. This includes canning jars which are NOT manufactured for use over direct heat.

[kinipela]

But the tins aren't pretty

(I know, I know, safety first... I'm going to have to order some tins and see how I like them. I haven't used one before.)

[ShelleyBean]

But the tins aren't pretty

(I know, I know, safety first... I'm going to have to order some tins and see how I like them. I haven't used one before.)

You might try getting the tins with the see through lid on them, I use them for my wickless product and I have no problem selling them.

[littlebrownbug]

Awww,it's ok kinipela....you are right though,candle tins aren't the prettiest things around but we as candle makers can make them more attractive...unless you are me and have very little creativeness. But tins sure beat trying to make wickless candles out of paper or glass....I believe now that it's not safe at all.....go tins go! And you are right again....safety first not second or third....safety first.

Mike

[Debra Phelps]

Well I must be lucky. I have 2 going 24/7 in my home. I have never had one break. BUT, my candle warmers don't get too hot. You can pick up the jar, bare handed at anytime. If it spells on you, it doesn't burn. I wouldn't think theat kind of heat would break the jar. Maybe I will come home one day and find a mess. I have also never heard a customer said that one broke. Humm:confused: All the pictures show a glass jar. Confusing. I wouldn't put a thin jar on one. But the heavy apotecaries are strong. Their are different brands. And some are thin, while others are thick. I will have to think about this one.

[kandlekrazy]

Thanks for the great post! FYI the palm works great in tins...yes you lose the pretty look of seeing it through the glass, but as soon as it melts you lose that anyway. Tins may not be pretty, but they are much safer for wickless and they sell very well. I use the window tins with wicks and the plain tins for wickless...and someone from CT gave us the great idea of putting the caution label under the lid (so it isn't on the heat surface.)

[Ring of Fire]

Well I must be lucky. I have 2 going 24/7 in my home. I have never had one break. BUT, my candle warmers don't get too hot. You can pick up the jar, bare handed at anytime. If it spells on you, it doesn't burn. I wouldn't think theat kind of heat would break the jar. Maybe I will come home one day and find a mess. I have also never heard a customer said that one broke. Humm:confused: All the pictures show a glass jar. Confusing. I wouldn't put a thin jar on one. But the heavy apotecaries are strong. Their are different brands. And some are thin, while others are thick. I will have to think about this one.

Same here. Ludicrous to now say no jar is safe for wickless. Who knows exactly why and under what circumstances this happened. Most jars are safe for wickless, just use your heads. A mason jar can be BOILED over and over, but not safe for a candle warmer, LOL.

[Michi]

If your jars are getting that hot on a candle warmer, especially using palm wax, then I think maybe your friend's candle warmer is more like a coffee mug warmer which has a high wattage.

I'd definitely be afraid to use tins with that same warmer, as don't you know someone may try and pick it up, and talk about getting HOT!

I think you should ask your friend what kind of warmer he/she is using.

I have one going 24/7 also, just keep adding a bit of oil here and there, and I can always pick up the 1/2 pt. jar anytime, as the top of the jar never gets beyond warm.

[Vicky_CO]

With Palm wax I don't think it has to do with the heat it is more to do with the expansion of the wax. If the wax melts and expands before the top melts one of 2 things will most likely happen either it spews wax or or the jar is going to break with the softer waxes like soy or container paraffin the chances are not as great of breakage as the palms which area much harder wax and is less likely to give.

[littlebrownbug]

Thanks Vicky for your explanation and that is what I'm leaning towards as I talk to my friend about what happened. Because the first time he melted it he said that once the melted wax had breached the surface(through a small hole in the wax)that it shot out of the jar like a volcano...(his description not mine).

Mike

[StephD]

I did have this happen. Well, a friend of mine did and we came to the conclusion is was the expansion of the wax. It was Dreamsicle in an 8-oz mason jar that she had on a $5 warmer from Wal-mart. It was a tester I made. Anyway, she had it on for a few hours and shut it off when she went to leave. She was gone for about an hour and turned it back on when she returned home. The wax was about 3/4 cooled from the first warming. Anyway, long story short, it exploded. Literally, the bottom exploded off. Needless to say, no more palm wax in mason jars!

[Vicky_CO]

The expansion theory is why low profile jars are better also. The tin because heat travels up the tins faster than glass enabling the tops edges to melt quickly enough to give a place for the wax to go.

[suzanneg]

Mike I am so glad you tested this and posted your findings!

It doesn't matter whether the wickless candle is made from soy, palm, paraffin or earwax, the problem is using a GLASS container on direct heat.

For all the unbelievers who swear they have used glass on warmers for the past 100 years without a single problem, consider...:

If even PYREX warns not to use it over direct heat, perhaps it's more sensible not to use glass from ??? over direct heat...

I managed to crack a Visions pot (a glass product from Corning designed to use as cookware on other than gas stoves) after using it with no problems for 15 years - and before anyone goes to conjuring ideas about cold & hot, it cracked on a day like any other day under the same circumstances it had been previously used for years. That's the way glass IS!! It doesn't take some extreme temperature or planetary alignment for a glass object to suddenly decide "today's the day."

All it takes are for the invisible stresses inside the glass structure to increase or weaken it to a point that it cracks. This is usually invisible without viewing the glass object with a polarizing stressometer.

All glass is NOT created equal!! Using a glass container that has not been manufactured according to ASTM standards for DIRECT HEAT APPLICATION is asking for trouble.

If ya wanna spring for Pyrex or laboratory grade glass or the stuff from which they make glass cooktops, go for it, but it's best to use containers made of some other material for direct heat applications. This includes canning jars which are NOT manufactured for use over direct heat.

Stella, Our Corning pots did the same thing! We have had them for about the same about of time!

Now I am scared out of my wits!!!! I guess I will be using tins also! Gee something else to worry about on top of marital problems!

[Stella1952]

Compared to marital problems, this is nothing to be scared witless about!! People DO use glass successfully, especially people who have common sense both in manufacturing those candles and in using them. The problem with selling them is that we cannot be sure whether the customers have common sense or not... some folks feel that having a good trial attorney is preferable to using their brains. Use good judgement and CYA. Whatever anyone decides, I feel sure the sun WILL come up tomorrow morning...

[Stella1952]

With Palm wax I don't think it has to do with the heat it is more to do with the expansion of the wax. If the wax melts and expands before the top melts one of 2 things will most likely happen either it spews wax or or the jar is going to break with the softer waxes like soy or container paraffin the chances are not as great of breakage as the palms which area much harder wax and is less likely to give.

I amend my earlier remarks to completely agree with you, Vicky. Palm wax DOES make a difference. Palm wax IS worse because it doesn't soften, as Vicky pointed out - it's either hard or liquid. I think people have even reported this "pressure buildup/spew or shatter" phenomenon when there is too much wax in the container and it seals off the top from the expanding liquid wax.

Thanks for pointing that out, Vicky.