$85 candles

[Meredith_D]

where did you find a source for some of those boxes?? I've been looking for things like that, as well as the boxes used by Voluspa (www.voluspa.com) but I can't find a source for them - mostly because I don't know what to call them in packaging industry-speak

I would guess that you won't find a source. They are most likely custom designed and manufactured.

[ubure]

My candles don't sell for hundreds of dollars, but for $ 67,-:

http://www.cherry-picking.de/index.php?main=3_0&detail=19

Of course it comes with a fine box.

This was a creation for a wholesale account and the lady sells them quite well. We sold this kind of candle to a large company for baby-and-mothers-to-be-stuff and they put it in their catalogue for a whole year now.

:yay:

But on the whole I'd never buy a candle that expensive, not to speak of one costing over $ 200,-. Crazy, absolutely crazy....but if there are people willing to spend that much, why notselling them what they want?

[thesoapbox]

I say if you have a market perfectly willing to pay that price then omg sell away I would also agree with the above that those boxes are most likely manufactured for that company to their specifications and may be hard to simply find on a supplier site.

Angi

[smellywax]

Inez, where in Germany are you? I love all the towns along the Mosel River. I agree...everything is about presentation and marketing!

My candles don't sell for hundreds of dollars, but for $ 67,-:

http://www.cherry-picking.de/index.php?main=3_0&detail=19

Of course it comes with a fine box.

This was a creation for a wholesale account and the lady sells them quite well. We sold this kind of candle to a large company for baby-and-mothers-to-be-stuff and they put it in their catalogue for a whole year now.

:yay:

But on the whole I'd never buy a candle that expensive, not to speak of one costing over $ 200,-. Crazy, absolutely crazy....but if there are people willing to spend that much, why notselling them what they want?

[sweetscents]

Finding manufacturers is actually pretty easy. First, you'll have to work with a graphic designer or design firm, which can be pricy, but they have the connections to source production in China, and in some cases, you can get boxes in as little as a few thousand pieces. Some of the quotes I've received for the Votivo style boxes are around $0.67/each, which I deem reasonable since they are hand crafted. But, if you need any help or ideas, feel free to pm me!

[ubure]

Hi there,

I'm in the south, in Bavaria. You are right, it's a beautiful part of our country there, and the wine is so good:cheesy2: !

Inez, where in Germany are you? I love all the towns along the Mosel River. I agree...everything is about presentation and marketing!

[evesorto]

I used to buy Jo Malone candles. $65 for the small bedroom size and $345 for the large 2.5kg one I kept in the livingroom. Perhaps, I spent $600/year.

So I thought, I'll make my own candles. Save alot of money. The Igi 4627 is similar to the j malone style wax. There are some damn good oils out there.

Well, needless, to say....It's now $2500 later...

Those Jo Malone's are looking pretty cheap, right about now.

Eve

[BusyBee]

Let me bring back this old dead post.  So, who are the actual buyers of expensive high end candles?  Answer would be surprising!

 

#1 Realtors:  Realtors are the biggest buyers of high end candles.  They use them to staging their listings when the house is more than million dollar home.  If the realtors sell their listings, then the candles stay with the house as a gift.

#2 Corporates:  High end candles are used as corporate gift items to their high end clients & to given out top performing employees.  Sometimes, $100 candle is going to be too cheap.  Higher the price the better it sells in this market.  All high end candle companies have dedicated corporate sales team & web page section on their websites.

#3 Young professionals:  These are young people, who just graduated from college, starting their careers at big firms.  It is kind of rewarding themselves by purchasing nice cars & luxury items.

#4 Rich people:  They buy it as decorative item even if they don't use candle.  They usually place them on foyer, guest bathroom, living room & party room.  They want to show off that they have money to burn.

#5 Small candle makers:  We buy them to see how good they are and compare with our candles.  🤣

#6 Some regular people:  They buy this on special day to reward themselves.

 

I guess it's money well spend to know how good mine is compare to theirs! 👍

[TallTayl]

@BusyBee Is that your diptique candle in the pics? 
 

a partner burned diptique and it was a crazy awful burn. It was high hot flame from the first light. The last third was the worst with several inch tall flame and black soot pouring from the top.

[BusyBee]

Yes.  $73 for 7oz candle and they were selling lid separate for $25 which I did not buy.  It had weak CT, but complexity of scent was excellent.  Other than that, it does all the awful things that we do not want our candles to be doing.  I trimmed it right but it still did all those things.  I thought my friends were joking on me when they were telling me that my candles are better than diptyque and Jo Malone.  

 

Below is $80 Michael Aram 3 wick candle.  It burned good with beautiful flames.  But HT was so weak that I re-wicked it.  Now it produces much stronger HT.  Container is hotter with original 3 wicks, but it got much cooler with two wicks put together as one.  *That is my technique to single wick container bigger than 3.5".

 

I am sure that I am not the only candle maker who buys high end candles to test them.  Even though the #5 is my own input, other top 5 ranking of high end candle buyer was done by luxury magazine company.  

 

What I am trying to point out here that new candle makers should learn their targeted market.  Find out who the actual buyers are, why they buy them, find out about the competition & their candles, decide on their own target market, come up with candle & packaging that fits that target market, coming up marketing strategies, etc. even before they start developing candles.  That would make candle developing much easier and faster.  If someone is trying to develop a good candle, then it would take years.  But coming up with candle that could succeed in one certain targeted market would only take only 4 to 10 months unless they are aiming for high end.

 

I don't know.  But one thing that is true is that we are going to burn lots of candles.  Our own and competitors!

 

 

 

[TallTayl]

5 minutes ago, BusyBee said:

Yes.  $73 for 7oz candle and they were selling lid separate for $25 which I did not buy.  It had weak CT, but complexity of scent was excellent.  Other than that, it does all the awful things that we do not want our candles to be doing.  I trimmed it right but it still did all those things.  I thought my friends were joking on me when they were telling me that my candles are better than diptyque and Jo Malone.  

 

Below is $80 Michael Aram 3 wick candle.  It burned good with beautiful flames.  But HT was so weak that I re-wicked it.  Now it produces much stronger HT.  Container is hotter with original 3 wicks, but it got much cooler with two wicks put together as one.  *That is my technique to single wick container bigger than 3.5".

 

I am sure that I am not the only candle maker who buys high end candles to test them.  Even though the #5 is my own input, other top 5 ranking of high end candle buyer was done by luxury magazine company.  

 

What I am trying to point out here that new candle makers should learn their targeted market.  Find out who the actual buyers are, why they buy them, find out about the competition & their candles, decide on their own target market, come up with candle & packaging that fits that target market, coming up marketing strategies, etc. even before they start developing candles.  That would make candle developing much easier and faster.  If someone is trying to develop a good candle, then it would take years.  But coming up with candle that could succeed in one certain targeted market would only take only 4 to 10 months unless they are aiming for high end.

 

I don't know.  But one thing that is true is that we are going to burn lots of candles.  Our own and competitors!

 

 

 

“What I am trying to point out here that new candle makers should learn their targeted market.  Find out who the actual buyers are, why they buy them, find out about the competition & their candles, decide on their own target market, come up with candle & packaging that fits that target market, coming up marketing strategies, etc. even before they start developing candles.  That would make candle developing much easier and faster.  If someone is trying to develop a good candle, then it would take years.  But coming up with candle that could succeed in one certain targeted market would only take only 4 to 10 months unless they are aiming for high end.”

 

exactly.  Find your lane and slam the pedal to the floor.  Too many people are working hard mimicking the competition to realize the highway is backed up with a traffic jam. 

 

I love the two-wick to single-wick improvement.  You have an exponential number of combinations to dial that wick right in to perfection. The slightly wider flame base works well. Do you worry about the curl of some wicks at all? 
 

Think of how many New candle makers would cal that a fail at this point in time because it is not at what they think is a “good” melt pool.  I bet that candle burns well and throws amazing. 

[TallTayl]

@BusyBeeis that a 4th wide wick in the middle of that jar in addition to the triple wick 😳?

[BusyBee]

36 minutes ago, TallTayl said:

@BusyBeeis that a 4th wide wick in the middle of that jar in addition to the triple wick 😳?

4th wick is the my two wicks put as one.  I was alternating burns with original 3 wicks vs my own until I was 100% that my wicking method was working better than the original.

 

Do you worry about the curl of some wicks at all? 

I was lucky that my preferred wick choice has been the ones with very minimal curl.  I have been using two ECOs as one in soy wax.  Now days, my favorite is Helix among what is available in US for vegetable waxes.  I like Aroma Lite also on certain wax.

 

The slightly wider flame base works well.

I found that my targeted market would work well with 10oz to 14oz candles which would have container diameter bigger than 3".  I could not find single wick method to wick for container wider than 3" unless I use wider flame like Cottonwood, Ribbon wick, & wooden wicks which none of them performed to satisfaction.  That is why I searched all over the world to locate flat & wide wicks.  I even tried oil lamp wicks, fabrics, papers, etc.  Putting two wicks together was temporary solution to have wider flame, and I am pretty much satisfied with Helix and paper wick that I found in Asia. 

*That paper wick I showed you before need some modification to make it close to perfection.  If I can have that wick burn off little bit faster after re-ignition, than I am good.  But I did not have a chance to travel to the factory in Asia to discuss modification due to pandemic.  I am hoping that I would be able to go there in near future.  Or if I can find a wax that does not shrink down after burn, then that would be better.  Could there be such wax in existence?  

[TallTayl]

1 hour ago, BusyBee said:

4th wick is the my two wicks put as one.  I was alternating burns with original 3 wicks vs my own until I was 100% that my wicking method was working better than the original.

 

Do you worry about the curl of some wicks at all? 

I was lucky that my preferred wick choice has been the ones with very minimal curl.  I have been using two ECOs as one in soy wax.  Now days, my favorite is Helix among what is available in US for vegetable waxes.  I like Aroma Lite also on certain wax.

 

The slightly wider flame base works well.

I found that my targeted market would work well with 10oz to 14oz candles which would have container diameter bigger than 3".  I could not find single wick method to wick for container wider than 3" unless I use wider flame like Cottonwood, Ribbon wick, & wooden wicks which none of them performed to satisfaction.  That is why I searched all over the world to locate flat & wide wicks.  I even tried oil lamp wicks, fabrics, papers, etc.  Putting two wicks together was temporary solution to have wider flame, and I am pretty much satisfied with Helix and paper wick that I found in Asia. 

*That paper wick I showed you before need some modification to make it close to perfection.  If I can have that wick burn off little bit faster after re-ignition, than I am good.  But I did not have a chance to travel to the factory in Asia to discuss modification due to pandemic.  I am hoping that I would be able to go there in near future.  Or if I can find a wax that does not shrink down after burn, then that would be better.  Could there be such wax in existence?  

You and I followed that same long path to finding single wick satisfaction, lol.  You branched off on the planar in magnificent fashion.  Congrats!

 

cottonwoods-i wanted so badly to love them. But they just got too dangerous and later mostly discontinued, so I was not alone in the dislike apparently. 

I wanted to love Aromalite and helix. I could get a perfect candle with one wick in a wax/jar/scent and never replicate it with the next scent.  I buy the entire set of every wick out there to give it the old college try 😉

 

remember the HPSP frenzy? yup, have those too. 

 

there is no one perfect wick series, so swapping out as needed solves the problems, but with a price tag. 
 

I find minimal shrink of wax when the melt pool is not large, deep or wide. When I aim for the “U” shape, very small/shallow melt pool with hang I find I don’t need to trim with my selection of single wicks. 

 

It makes me think about the wick charts…. Most have rather narrow measurements for melt pool… almost as if the major manufacturers DON’T WANT large deep melt pools.

 

Old candles from before the DIY craze never reached Full melt pool even once.  A 4” wide apothecary jar was single wicked and the wax just melted in on itself slowly.  Those candles lasted 100 hours easy and were clean as a whistle once burned through. Scent was lovely.
 

I miss those candles. You didn’t need to complete candle university to safely burn one. No long list of disclaimers or instructions. there was No talk of “candle memory”, just light for as long as you wanted and blow out.  No need to trim wicks.  Nobody ever did. Powerburn no problem. 

[BusyBee]

@TallTayl

 

You and I followed that same long path to finding single wick satisfaction, lol.  You branched off on the planar in magnificent fashion.  Congrats!

Thank you!  Please don't call that planar wick.  Lumetique owns Planar Wick patent, and I got little more modification to do so it is not "Planar".

 

cottonwoods-i wanted so badly to love them. But they just got too dangerous and later mostly discontinued, so I was not alone in the dislike apparently. 

I don't understand how they ever decide to put that monster on the market.

 

I wanted to love Aromalite and helix. I could get a perfect candle with one wick in a wax/jar/scent and never replicate it with the next scent.  I buy the entire set of every wick out there to give it the old college try 😉

Still they work little better than others in my opinion.

 

remember the HPSP frenzy? yup, have those too. 

Gone with the wind!  There is new one(but actually old) coming.  "Ultra Core"!

 

there is no one perfect wick series, so swapping out as needed solves the problems, but with a price tag. 

I don't think there ever will be one.  

 

I find minimal shrink of wax when the melt pool is not large, deep or wide. When I aim for the “U” shape, very small/shallow melt pool with hang I find I don’t need to trim with my selection of single wicks. 

I have managed to get this shallow melt pool through out the candle life.  But it still shrinks down 1mm more than what I need.  If I can create a wick that can burn off 1mm real fast after re-ignition, then  it's party time!

 

It makes me think about the wick charts…. Most have rather narrow measurements for melt pool… almost as if the major manufacturers DON’T WANT large deep melt pools.

I came up with conclusion that manufacturers and suppliers don't have clue on good candle making.  

[BusyBee]

Let me add one more thing.  With that shallow melt pool above, I only had to trim the wick every 3rd burn.

[BusyBee]

@TallTayl

I find minimal shrink of wax when the melt pool is not large, deep or wide. When I aim for the “U” shape, very small/shallow melt pool with hang I find I don’t need to trim with my selection of single wicks. 

Is this going to work for tin container with 3.6" inside diameter with 2 1/4" height?  My guess would be "Probably not".  

[TallTayl]

@BusyBee the only wick worse than the cottonwood were the ribbon wick. Yikes.

 

9 hours ago, BusyBee said:

@TallTayl

I find minimal shrink of wax when the melt pool is not large, deep or wide. When I aim for the “U” shape, very small/shallow melt pool with hang I find I don’t need to trim with my selection of single wicks. 

Is this going to work for tin container with 3.6" inside diameter with 2 1/4" height?  My guess would be "Probably not".  

The tea light type proportions are the hardest to wick for sure. Not impossible with the right wax combo, though. Once I was able to move away from soy things changed dramatically. Was stuck with soy for a decade or so because of the hardiness at outdoor Faire during the worst weather conditions of the summer months. It was incredibly limiting and came at a cost. 

 

11 hours ago, BusyBee said:

came up with conclusion that manufacturers and suppliers don't have clue on good candle making.  

😅 you may be right.  Older manufacturers definitely had a different methodology from current manufacturers. Customers demanded fast, hard throwers, mostly for little $.  You get what you get I guess… 

 

wanted to love Aromalite and helix. I could get a perfect candle with one wick in a wax/jar/scent and never replicate it with the next scent.  I buy the entire set of every wick out there to give it the old college try 😉

Still they work little better than others in my opinion.

they sure can with the right combo.

 

11 hours ago, BusyBee said:

remember the HPSP frenzy? yup, have those too. 

Gone with the wind!  There is new one(but actually old) coming.  "Ultra Core"!

I am witnessing that first hand in several groups. They are not a magical wick, but can work well in some combos. I have the full set and have worked with them. Some of the worst sooting and mushrooming with them, but some successes with combos of wax and fo that were not good with other series. Same story over and over. 
Bath and Body Works uses them in some candles, I think. The wicks look, burn and feel the same in some I have burned. If makers love BBW candles, then maybe the UC will make them happy.  You need to be very careful with them, just like cottonwood and others the intensity of the burn grows the further down the candle you go. If someone only bases a test on the first burn they will be shocked as customers share feedback toward the end.  Feel like I am preaching to a choir, though. Seeing lots of super tall (out of proportion) flames, sooty, cracked candle jars on Facebook groups with people still blaming the buyers versus the makers.  

 

 

[BusyBee]

11 hours ago, TallTayl said:

The tea light type proportions are the hardest to wick for sure. Not impossible with the right wax combo, though.

To me tins are much easier to work with because I am so use to that shape.

 

Below are some of the very expensive candles.  What is it going to take for us get there?  Has anyone thought about collaborating with famous perfumer, artists, designers, porcelain company, dinnerware/crystal /glass manufacturers to create high end luxury candle?

 

 

[TallTayl]

10 hours ago, BusyBee said:

To me tins are much easier to work with because I am so use to that shape.

 

Below are some of the very expensive candles.  What is it going to take for us get there?  Has anyone thought about collaborating with famous perfumer, artists, designers, porcelain company, dinnerware/crystal /glass manufacturers to create high end luxury candle?

 

 

 

We can make the most luxurious container and fragrance combo in the world. The trick is to get them into the stores where those types of shoppers like to shop. 

look at this lovely… no special container. Pretty box. Fabulous fragrance. Premium price tag. I have burned these in my home. They are absolutely wonderful. Slow shallow melt pool, just pure scent that lasts a long time in the air and pretty long burn time. 

https://celuifragrance.com/collections/frontpage/products/celui-signature-candle-8-5oz

[BusyBee]

2 hours ago, TallTayl said:

 

We can make the most luxurious container and fragrance combo in the world. The trick is to get them into the stores where those types of shoppers like to shop. 

look at this lovely… no special container. Pretty box. Fabulous fragrance. Premium price tag. I have burned these in my home. They are absolutely wonderful. Slow shallow melt pool, just pure scent that lasts a long time in the air and pretty long burn time. 

https://celuifragrance.com/collections/frontpage/products/celui-signature-candle-8-5oz

Hmm!  Do you really like them?

 

The packaging was done by Big Sky Packaging in NJ.

Is that wooden tube wick they used?  Quality of that is as bad as regular wooden wick.  Some will not lit up or stay lit.  But the one that would stay lit would perform really well.

They are claiming fragrance was done in Los Angeles.  That means it could have been done by Agilex.  Agilex has done good job for quite a few companies.

I have feeling that they are probably manufactured by private-label manufacturer here in Los Angeles.  One private-label company here does many of those price range candles here in Los Angeles area.  

 

Are we the only one who has to follow product label regulation not them?  No product identification, no weight in grams, no manufacturer's address???  Their website does not disclose their address either.  I think I need to start ignoring label regulation too since no one seems to be following the rules and they are doing oaky.

 

Sorry that this turned out to be very negative response.  I did not burn this candle so I should not say too much about this candle.  But a new candle company who does not even know how to follow label regulation really turns me off.

[TallTayl]

2 hours ago, BusyBee said:

Hmm!  Do you really like them?

 

The packaging was done by Big Sky Packaging in NJ.

Is that wooden tube wick they used?  Quality of that is as bad as regular wooden wick.  Some will not lit up or stay lit.  But the one that would stay lit would perform really well.

They are claiming fragrance was done in Los Angeles.  That means it could have been done by Agilex.  Agilex has done good job for quite a few companies.

I have feeling that they are probably manufactured by private-label manufacturer here in Los Angeles.  One private-label company here does many of those price range candles here in Los Angeles area.  

 

Are we the only one who has to follow product label regulation not them?  No product identification, no weight in grams, no manufacturer's address???  Their website does not disclose their address either.  I think I need to start ignoring label regulation too since no one seems to be following the rules and they are doing oaky.

 

Sorry that this turned out to be very negative response.  I did not burn this candle so I should not say too much about this candle.  But a new candle company who does not even know how to follow label regulation really turns me off.

Every one I burned was super. That fragrance line is by a wonderfully talented perfumer with no relation to agilex.

 

I get being skeptical. Sometimes the products are really, really good. In cases like these high end products, the fragrance was first a winning boutique perfume, then a candle, similar to the progression of Tom Ford, jo Malone, etc. no special wax, vessels or wicks. Simple glass jar with a wooden wick that balanced perfectly with the scent. One scent. Uncomplicated.  
 

the marketing is strategic, and has been seemingly quite effective. I wish my model were as simple. 

[BusyBee]

One by one with simplicity!

I would go after one targeted market with simple choice(one size container & less than 5 scents), and then move on to next one with same concept when I have gain enough ground in one.

 

Many candle makers are trapped in a market only looking for candle users to sell their candles.  But there are tons of candle buyers who are not actual candle users, and these groups are much easier to deal with. 

Example:  Candle would be one of top gift items.  Place candles in heaviest tourist spot with attraction theme labels.  Tourists will buy those candles as gift item to hand out when they get back home.  One container (7.5oz candle would be perfect since it is not too big or heavy to carry back home nor too small as a gift) with 4 to 5 attraction related scents should work really well.