Grrr... small rant!

[Jadryga]

I can't get lye in large amounts here, so I imported some CP soaps to complement my line from a nice girl in the Philippines whose friend makes them, and the first batch was great - gentle on the skin, fragrant, pretty, so I ordered a second, much larger batch.

Yesterday a customer of mine ordered a few sample packs of various soaps including honey oatmeal, so I picked up a bar and got going with my soap cutter. It was a brilliant white color, which was different from the usual translucent white her honey soaps were. That was fine, until I found it was brittle, it crumbled and broke into flakes and chunks rather than the neat slice I was expecting.

I frowned at the soap bar and instinctively wet a finger, smeared it on my soap then brought it to my tongue. Stung slightly, so I took a flake and put it to the tip of my tongue. BOY, did I regret that. Felt like I'd licked some acid. Washed my tongue quickly with some ACV, now it's numb.

Tried another chalky white bar, it was brittle, but didn't sting as much as the last one did. Then again I'd just doused my tongue in ACV, so I don't know whether that might have neutralized it somewhat

The bars also smelt like slightly rancid boiled egg yolks.

I picked up one from a previous batch just to make sure it wasn't me... translucent white, slightly soft, smelt great.

Now, I don't mind if it was me testing my own creations, but I paid for these, including shipping from Philippines to Malaysia and this soapmaker apparently also supplies to a lot of other people in Manila, including some beauty salons so I wouldn't have expected lye-heavy bars. Now I'm not sure what to do with them.

I wasn't very happy with the girl already, as as per our agreement, for this batch she shipped 300 soaps to me through FedEx but failed to pad them properly even though I'd warned her to please bubble wrap the soaps so they don't get tossed around. Despite being pre-wrapped in cellophane, a lot of the soaps came in dented and with holes in some parts of the wrapping. DH was extremely displeased cos I spent a lot of hours fixing the packaging and trying to smooth out the minor dents. Now this!

I don't know if I'm making too much of a fuss out of a few wonky bars, but it worries me about the rest of the bars - I'd already sold a few chalky white honey oatmeal bars - and they're already wrapped so it's not practical for me to rip everything and test them. I'll probably have to recall the whole batch of Honey Oatmeal.

GAAAHHH!!!!

Sorry, this turned out a lot longer than I expected... I'm going to go make sample packs now :lipsrseal

[Morganst]

That's terrible!!! You are well within your rights to make a big stink about it. Have you contacted her to let her know? I think she should replace the bad batches definately.

Let us know how it goes

S

[Jadryga]

I've just sent her an e-mail letting her know how upset I am. I'm taking some pictures now to show her the discrepancies between the bars and going to send her some of the crumbled soap flakes too for her to test and see. Don't see the sense in wasting a lot more money paying for postage to send whole bars back to the Philippines...

[Morganst]

The best possible outcome would be for her to just send new soaps and let you dump the bad ones. I'll keep my fingers crossed!! Is there no way for you to get lye there?

[Jadryga]

It comes under the Poisons Act for some reason or the other.. I found small amounts in a crafts supply store, though it's pretty far from here. Maybe I'll get some just to play with one day But for large batches, not very practical.

[Meridith]

I think you should send them back to her at her expense and then she should either refund your money of if you are willing, replace the soap with a new batch and that shipping should be on her as well.

I don't blame you one bit for being peeved. Lye heavy soap - not cool or acceptable at all. If she is any kind of business woman, she will make this right.

[Jadryga]

She's written back apologizing and saying she'll forward my message to the supplier, so I'll wait on that.

A lot of my friends and customers really like the soaps - one of my friends is even willing to invest in them, he runs an events management company, but he's always willing to look at new fields he sees potential in. This is the first faulty batch I've come across, so if she offers to replace them, I'll take it for now. If this happens again though, I'm just going to demand a refund and look at other alternatives.

She'd better not ask me to pay for shipping though!

[SoapDiva]

Oh wow, I'd have freaked out. Do you have any hardware stores there? Here in Canada they are starting to crack down on the sale of it because it is used to make drugs, but I can get large batches of it through a farmers co-op with no problems, and I can special order it through hardware stores.

[sudsnwicks]

I'm sorry this happened to you. I'll hope you'll be able to get either a replacement (at no extra cost to you) or a full refund (including the shipping cost).Definitely make a lot of noise if she doesn't comply!

I'm surprised the manufacturer does not have some kind of quality control procedure in place - it could be as simple as cutting a small slice off each batch and taking a shower with it before that batch goes out the door. If not, any mis-measured batches would go undetected.

My guess is that the lye was placed under the poisons act because somebody hurt somebody else with it after having quarrelled or something like that (for if nobody got hurt, there wouldn't be a reason to pull it from store shelves to protect the public). Here a lot of us were buying it from supermarkets under the brand Red Devil. But due to illegal drug manufacturers using it as an ingredient, this brand was discontinued, making it harder, though not impossible, for small-timer soap makers to get it. This is a long shot, but if you have a business license for selling your products, maybe it's possible for you to order it through a school? I remember we used it in the science laboratory at school for our experiments.

[Jadryga]

I might be able to ask the crafts store that I know carries lye to get more for me, though the one reason I haven't really been going there is it takes an hour or so for a one-way journey to that place. Thanks though for the suggestions

I've looked in hardware stores, I remembered the Red Devil controversy so I thought I'd check out drain cleaners... we have a brand called Pye, but they don't list ANY of their ingredients! Scary.

I think I'll try the crafts store before the school, but you know Suds, that makes me remember all the fun I had fooling around in the chem lab back in school! I used to swap stories with my friends, and it's amazing how much havoc can be caused during an hour of class.

[Jami]

Just a suggestion but maybe you can email Pye and ask them what the ingredients are. Here is the info:

http://www.buildingproducts.com.my/OnlineCat/PYE/INFO/address.htm

[sudsnwicks]

Just how small are the lye bottles sold at the craft store? If you buy lye from the hardware stores here, they are only 16-18 oz (enough for 3-4 2-lb batches). Maybe you could phone them to discuss ordering a larger quantity for you instead of going in person, since it's so far away? Then you would just need to make one trip there to pick up your order. Anyway good luck with getting the lye-heavy soaps replaced/refunded and finding the lye to make your own.

[Jadryga]

Thanks suds She hasn't replied, still waiting on that. If there's nothing by tomorrow I'll post a follow up.

Thanks for the lye suggestions too, everyone! I never really put much thought into it since I was importing soaps and I was having fun playing with other things anyhow, but now that this has come up, I think I shall seriously weigh my other options, just in case.

[jaybyrd]

Jadryga, what an awful mess! I hope it was just a ghastly one-time fluke, and that the supplier bends over backwards to make amends.

How frustrating that the one ingredient you absolutely have to have is so difficult to get. Maybe your craft supplier would be open to working out quantity discounts for you. I hope so - you're so creative I'd love to see what you could do with soaping!

[Late Night]

I would be very upset if I were you. I'd be afraid one of my customers would get burned on the lye. Not good at all!

[MochaMama]

What was the outcome? Did you get the soaps replaced? Let us know!

[Jadryga]

No, actually, she never offered to replace them or refund me, just suggested trying some of the other milder soaps.

As is, I wasn't very impressed with how she handled.

They actually suggested that the soaps had gone rancid since they shipped it in January. I had a problem with that explanation because firstly, from what I've researched rancid soap doesn't burn anyway because it's already fully cured - it just smells and looks icky. These things were chalky white from the start anyhow. I noticed it when they sent the bars over (already wrapped in plastic), but put it down to the slight differences you get from handmade things.

I offered to send slivers of the bars back for them to examine, but they said not to. That made me frown because I mean, if it was me, I'd probably like to know what went wrong with my batch rather than play guessing games.

I think I'll just look for alternatives and gradually phase out of these soaps. DH is in favor of that too, he never liked her from the start.

Pity, my customers really liked them. I'd been putting up with the less than stellar service, but this recent display has just convinced me I should find another supplier who knows what they're doing. I'm sure there are equal or better products out there that my customers would like just as well.

[sudsnwicks]

What! She didn't even admit to the problem? And suggested you try a milder soap? So she makes 'harsh soap' and 'mild soap' and you happened to order the 1st kind without realizing it? Oh Jadryga, I am so sorry this happened to you. Could you just focus on B&B stuff? And how much lye do the small bottles at the craft shop contain? (The ones sold here are small too, about 1 lb only, unless you buy in bulk from a chemical supplier.) Maybe you could just make a few soaps on your own instead of having a wide range? At least there would be better quality control that way.

[Jadryga]

I'm definitely going to start experimenting then hopefully work my way towards having my own soaps... still haven't found the time to drive all the way to the craft shop, but I think I will this weekend. Was thinking of participating in the SFIC co-op actually, and seeing how MP does. In the meantime, I'll probably start looking for a supplier... now's good, so I won't be stuck when I run out of these soaps

I've developed some cleansing grains and masks I'm slowly adding to my line... I sent a sample of "Pink Chocolate Mask" (pastel pink clay, goat's milk powder, cocoa powder) to one or two of my customers and they're liking it - though I think that may have more to do with the "Chocolate" bit

[sudsnwicks]

It is definitely the 'chocolate' bit, hee hee. That is what drew me to try your sweet mocha scrub mask recipe. I could never resist chocolate.

I have heard good things about SFIC bases. If shipping them to you isn't going to cause you to go bankrupt, that would be one avenue to explore.

You know, if I were you, I would try rebatching that bad batch with extra oils. It's going to be tricky guessing how much to add, but maybe you could try it with a bit of the batch at a time. You've nothing to lose, since the batch can't be used as is, and it would be such a waste to throw it away.

[MochaMama]

That's too bad that the supplier was not willing to make up for her mistake.

You could try mp - since I have small ones and don't want the lye around, it works well for me, plus you get almost instant results. I don't see how the CP ladies wait so long for their results - I am so impatient!