Silly question on Lye temp with Goat's milk and CP

[firegirl]

I made the Shortening and Sudsy Shea recipe yesterday. I used frozen goats milk. Everything went really well. BUT.. I have one question.. It says in the 2 books that I have read that your oils and lye should be beween 90 - 110 degrees. My lye solution was at room temp or 74 degrees. Everything went fine. I used Eucalyptus Spearmint which I read accelerates. I had no huge acceleration, but that could be because the lye was so cool. I then soaped NG's Orchid Rain (which smells and soaped fabulously! If you have never smelled this.. you have to get a sample! It is wonderful!) No acceleration or discoloration. I just wondered if it is okay to have a lye solution that cool, and if so, is it because of the milk? I got full gel on both batches. I could not find the information on this in search.. I would appreciate any info on this puzzling question. Thanks!

Teri

[Angel91805]

Well...I don't always go "by the book"....

<sniff...sniff...wiping eyes>

Most times my lye is chilled and definately NOT room temperature or warmer. No problems here!

Of course, I avoid gel like the plague, but have an oven warmed up just in case something decides it wants to gel (and then, by God, it's gonna gel ALL the way even if I have to help it!).

I love gift horses, and don't look in their mouths at ALL!

Remember this VERY important step though.....we will EXPECT pictures tomorrow.

Donna

:::who, grumbling, added Orchid Rain to her evergrowing NG list!:::

[CareBear]

I try to have both the oils and lye solution cooled down. Room temp or so is good. I've had chilled lye before but not often. I always gel.

The thing about having them the same temp never made sense to me.

Some finicky recipes actually seem to like the warmer temp of 100-110, but I don't recall which ones (I don't play that game so those recipes are not active ones for moi).

[DONNAMAC]

Did your Goats Milk cause your soap to turn brown? I did some this morning too and used Sea Blossom in it and it was a beautiful creamy white with pink and purple swirls., Just very pretty, and I sat it on my dryer and was trying to think if I should gell or not, and when I went back in 30 minutes, it was in a full gell, which is what I think caused it to turn brown, cause my mixing bowls and what not still had the soap on them 6 hours later,(I don't wash them right away), and that soap was still very pretty. I am thinking I don't like gell.

[CareBear]

mine are much lighter if I don't gel, but I just cannot avoid gel no matter what! (I even put soap in the freezer - gelled when I took it out and stuck it in the fridge 3 days later...)

[firegirl]

Well...I don't always go "by the book"....

<sniff...sniff...wiping eyes>

Most times my lye is chilled and definately NOT room temperature or warmer. No problems here!

Of course, I avoid gel like the plague, but have an oven warmed up just in case something decides it wants to gel (and then, by God, it's gonna gel ALL the way even if I have to help it!).

I love gift horses, and don't look in their mouths at ALL!

Remember this VERY important step though.....we will EXPECT pictures tomorrow.

Donna

:::who, grumbling, added Orchid Rain to her evergrowing NG list!:::

Too funny! I am happy to hear that this is okay. I understand not going by the book, but when both books stated this.. I was a little nervous. I loved the goats milk in the soap. I need to post some pics of my new wonderful habit! I have 3 batches curing with a failed 4th sitting like a bunch of toffee chunks in a plastic ziploc. (no zap and lathers great!).. ( darn Brown Sugar and Fig!) I will get around to posting pics when I get a chance. You just gotta see the BS&F.. YOU MUST SMELL THE ORCHID RAIN!!!! This is my standard scent for my body butter. I can't make it fast enough. I get more requests from men than anyone else (firefighters) so it really just smells like a great clean scent. It really soaped perfectly ( for as little as I know) I just love it in all B&B! Thanks for all the great replies! I could just hug all of you who have graciously offered your knowledge and advice!

Teri

[HarleyGirl]

I do RTCP, my oils are about 78-80F. I make my lye solution the day before

and put it in the fridge. It's about 40-42F when I add to oils.

I add my cold liquid GM to my oils 1st, then the lye solution.

I never gel. If it looks like its gonna heat up...I put a fan on it.

[DONNAMAC]

That is good to know, I will have to try that. I learn so much on this board.

[kidsngarden]

All I soap is GM's and they are always done with RT oils and coldish lye (80 or lower as the GM is frozen.

The whole anti gel thing I just don't get. IF they gel, they gel, if they don't they don't. Since all my soaps are done the same everytime I'm ok as long as there is consistency within the same variety I think. Most of the time I think things are halfway gelled - the only thing that really heats up to a full gel without help is OMH and that one I do have to monitor and fridge it if I have to or the whole thing seperates. Guess I'm just plain weird that way.

And for the color, one huge factor is the milk versus the lye and who wins out ...and the FO. Even the sages wild strawberry is vanilla laden and will really darken.

Bethany

[Meridith]

I always use cold lye when I soap with GM and I do my darndest to avoid gel so my GM does not curdle or get too hot. Lots of times too I freeze my GM and add the RT lye to the frozen GM. I've only gotten partial gel once and it actually made my soap look pretty cool. If your GM curdles, that smell will cure out and if your soap turns darker, it might even lighten up as it cures.

[sherry]

Please tell what's RT :confused:

[Meridith]

RT = room temperature

[Tall Blonde]

I tried doing RT on my last 2 batches and they traced practically as soon as I poured the lye into the oils. I ended up having to rebatch both. I don't think I'll be doing that again.

[Crafty1_AJ]

I soap as cool as possible when doing milk soaps. Lye water to room temp, chilled or frozen gm, cooled oils, etc. You betcha. Only way to fly!

[jaybyrd]

I made GM soap recently with Aveda-type rosemary-mint fo & added the lye straight to the frozen milk so it was quite cool, & the bars came out a light brown. At the time I'd completely forgotten gelling means it's heating up, however (d'oh!).

As always, I'm learning a lot here - the literature for beginners does all seem to stress that oils & lye MUST be between 100-115 degrees, and you MUST keep the mold insulated, etc. Obviously from all the wonderful work I see here, that's not the case.

Although, considering that the last few days "room temp" in my house has been in the ninetys, it might be a moot point...*faint*

Jeri

[kidsngarden]

I always use cold lye when I soap with GM and I do my darndest to avoid gel so my GM does not curdle or get too hot. Lots of times too I freeze my GM and add the RT lye to the frozen GM. I've only gotten partial gel once and it actually made my soap look pretty cool. If your GM curdles, that smell will cure out and if your soap turns darker, it might even lighten up as it cures.

Goat milk cannot curdle once saponification has begun - once that happens there's no milk, no oils, no lye - just soap. Sometimes if it heats up too much the whole mess seperates (ask me how I know! ), but the milk still cannot curdle. I have made MANY of batches of 100% GM soap and it has never happened - even with it overheating. could it be that your FO is ricing?

Now, If you don't have your GM frozen and the lye burns it when mixing the lye and GM - then it can curdle!

Bethany

[Meridith]

Goat milk cannot curdle once saponification has begun - once that happens there's no milk, no oils, no lye - just soap. Sometimes if it heats up too much the whole mess seperates (ask me how I know! ), but the milk still cannot curdle. I have made MANY of batches of 100% GM soap and it has never happened - even with it overheating. could it be that your FO is ricing?

Now, If you don't have your GM frozen and the lye burns it when mixing the lye and GM - then it can curdle!

Bethany

What I meant was I soap cool to avoid curdling when adding the lye to the GM because curdling can happen AND to keep the mixture from getting too hot to avoid cracking,overheating and partial gel. And your GM does not have to be frozen to avoid curdling. I have had my GM curdle on me before when the GM was not cold enough and the lye too hot - it didn't rice - it curdled because everything was too warm. If there is no FO in the mixture it can't be that. I keep everything as cold as possible to avoid any problems. In 3 years, only that one batch curdled on me because I got too impatient.

[RobinInOR]

That's what's so fun about soaping - there's a range of temperatures that you can use. Cold lye, cold oils, hot lye, hot oils, and anything in between.

The 'matching temps' you see in recipes cause the least amount of problems for someone new to soaping, but aren't a requirement.

[firegirl]

That's what's so fun about soaping - there's a range of temperatures that you can use. Cold lye, cold oils, hot lye, hot oils, and anything in between.

The 'matching temps' you see in recipes cause the least amount of problems for someone new to soaping, but aren't a requirement.

Thanks Robin..

[kidsngarden]

What I meant was I soap cool to avoid curdling when adding the lye to the GM because curdling can happen AND to keep the mixture from getting too hot to avoid cracking,overheating and partial gel. And your GM does not have to be frozen to avoid curdling. I have had my GM curdle on me before when the GM was not cold enough and the lye too hot - it didn't rice - it curdled because everything was too warm. If there is no FO in the mixture it can't be that. I keep everything as cold as possible to avoid any problems. In 3 years, only that one batch curdled on me because I got too impatient.

So you are talking curdling at the time the lye is mixed with the milk, right? Ok, I get it...

Bethany

[Meridith]

That is what I mean. I always have my lye cool and my GM really cold or frozen and then slowly add my lye to the GM - if I am doing it that way - sometimes I add my GM at trace and then I don't worry about curdling but still try to keep it cool so I won't have other problems. . Sometimes I add GM to the lye and at trace. I find I have to really watch it when soaping raw GM - that seems to want to curdle or give me trouble more than store bought GM - must be the high fat content? Just a guess. That is the batch that curdled on me - looked like cottage cheese. I added the GM too soon and didn't wait for the right temps like I normally do - it heated up super fast and the milk turned to orange cottage cheese - not pretty and doesn't smell great. lol Keeping everything as cool as possible also help to keep the mixture from getting too hot - not pretty either.

[DONNAMAC]

So, would you say it is best not to gell, when using goats milk?

[Scent Cellar]

I don't let my goatmilk bars gel as I like my soap to be a light tan color. When mine go through gel they get a bit darker. It is simply a matter of your choice as whether or not to gel them.

[Meridith]

So, would you say it is best not to gell, when using goats milk?

It is a matter of choice and sometimes it isn't in that your soap will gel whether you want it to or not. I prefer that mine not gel - I want a creamier bar and if it gels, then it can get too hot and give you other problems. I soap cool and put my soap in the fridge for the night when I'm done. I also try to avoid gel with any soaps with honey - another heat accelerator. I'm not so picky about gel with some of my other recipes.

[jaybyrd]

It is a matter of choice and sometimes it isn't in that your soap will gel whether you want it to or not. I prefer that mine not gel - I want a creamier bar and if it gels, then it can get too hot and give you other problems. I soap cool and put my soap in the fridge for the night when I'm done. I also try to avoid gel with any soaps with honey - another heat accelerator. I'm not so picky about gel with some of my other recipes.

Meredith, when you refrigerate and prevent gelling, how much more curing time do you tend to need?

Jeri