Check out my new website!

[Laura]

MUCH better! although you could list we use "soy based wax" in the reasons holasoy is ...i can understand you getting defensive...after all it's your "baby" so to speak ,and you were/are proud of it. BUT when you come to a board full of candlemakers , some of which have been doing this for many years...you HAVE to expect constructive critism. especially when you ask peeps to check out your site.

that being said...if you want to get far and suceed in this biz, take the suggestions and work with them. most of us know what we are talking about ...live and learn. don't get rude or put down other candlemakers...not cool and as you can see, we do take offense to that. we have worked long and hard...it's difficult to deal with a "newbie" whose still green, that won't be open minded...after all...we are trying to help. if we weren't...we wouldn't waste our time here...

obviously you already have taken in some of the suggestions, and it does look more appealing...amazing what changing a few words can do.

eating crow isn't easy and i would imagine that on some level you are...it's hard to chew, but worth the experience sometimes....

[debscent]

Im probably going to get alot of slack for this, but how can you all assume he hasnt tested his candles, just because he hasnt spent a year or more doing it? And to Bruce, I have made candles for the last five years and they were paraffin, now I switched to soy so Im learning it all over again plus I quit for a while and restarted. But I just dont find it as difficult as people make it out to be. Yes I have gotten on here and asked alot of questions because I do find soy to be a little more difficult to master than paraffin. But, I mean really, how long does it take to test a candle? It doesnt take 6 mths to test a candle. You burn it, you make sure it performs the way it should, and if it passes the test, then its worthy for marketing. I think people act on here as if its a scientific thing and you have to go deep into the lab for the next couple years before anything made is worthy of selling. Im sure someone will disagree, but I just had to say it. I think people are being way to harsh. The only thing I agree to that he did wrong was the comparisons. There was no need to compare. But I feel like everyone is just picking this person apart when hes trying to correct things. No one is perfect.

Joy, I agree--no one is perfect, but the harshness did not come out until, and only until he became way too defensive, and started to spout his achievements, etc. If you look at the first few posts, they were kind, constructive criticisms and he came out firing. Maturity is not something grown in a lab.

One person's "great candle" is another persons "garbage". His inexperience in testing was pointed out because of his posts within the last month or so...check them out. And testing is a personal preference--smart in my opinion, but that's just my opinion (which is what this entire thread is, everyone's opinions).

[prairieannie]

Im probably going to get alot of slack for this, but how can you all assume he hasnt tested his candles, just because he hasnt spent a year or more doing it? And to Bruce, I have made candles for the last five years and they were paraffin, now I switched to soy so Im learning it all over again plus I quit for a while and restarted. But I just dont find it as difficult as people make it out to be. Yes I have gotten on here and asked alot of questions because I do find soy to be a little more difficult to master than paraffin. But, I mean really, how long does it take to test a candle? It doesnt take 6 mths to test a candle. You burn it, you make sure it performs the way it should, and if it passes the test, then its worthy for marketing. I think people act on here as if its a scientific thing and you have to go deep into the lab for the next couple years before anything made is worthy of selling. Im sure someone will disagree, but I just had to say it. I think people are being way to harsh. The only thing I agree to that he did wrong was the comparisons. There was no need to compare. But I feel like everyone is just picking this person apart when hes trying to correct things. No one is perfect.

I agree with you completely. It certainly doesn't take 6 months to test a candle, nor is it necessary in my opinion to test one through the seasons or every imaginable condition before it's ready to sell, IMO that is beyond anal. I also agree that many people make candle making seem a whole lot harder than it is, and I have rallied behind MANY a person who's candles were fantastic, but were afraid to show them let alone sell them because they were afraid to due to this attitude

However, as I mentioned before, someone who is admittedly in the "experimental stages" of candle making one day (by his own admission) and less than two weeks later has a "company he can be proud of" "customers" and "flawless candles"....well..cripes, even 2 months later it would have been more believable than 2 weeks.

But, you're right, that shouldn't bother us..we shouldn't be disturbed by any of it. We should just accept that he's some kind of Super Chandler and perhaps even bow down to his apparent prodigious talent! LOL, I'm sure you know better than that though... as a bunch of folks, i think we're pretty easy to get along with..hell even as Michael mentioned earlier, most of us are all too willing to be encouraging to the newbies by ooohing and ahhhing over crappy stuff..hoping they won't give up, hoping they'll hang in there and keep trying, because we all know that they'll one day be able to look back at their crap and see how much they've improved and feel really great about it! But we're not stupid, and it seems as though when someone wants to take us for a bunch of fools, well...we tend to get a little torked.

[Cetacea]

I am a biologist primarily, with some good chemistry and toxicology knowledge. I am not a candle expert in the field of toxicology, but I can use my training and resources for more information.

Interesting, I'm also a biologist. Marine Bio to be specific. I have a background in Environmental Engineering as well.

[CandleFreak]

I just want to say one thing, I do not believe that the amount of time someone has spent on candlemaking completely determines whether or not they really know what they are doing. There is NO set of rules that states that a candle youve made is not worthy of selling unless youve spent over 6 mths testing it. I do test mine of course, I test it the way a customer would most likely burn it. I marathon burn the candles and I use the tester sheet off of this website, and if they meet the expectations, then they pass the test and if pass the test, then why wouldnt they be worthy of selling. Even if it only took me 5 days to figure it out. So I guess my point is that I think people make WAY too much of a big deal on how long people have been doing this. People can learn and do things at different speeds. And also everyone is assuming that this persons candles have not been tested. How do we know they havent been tested? I just dont understand how it could possibly take so long to burn a candle and make sure it does what it is supposed to, and performs the way it should. This person doesnt have alot of scents or alot of styles of candles, so its not quite as difficult as someone who has 50 or more scents and several different types of candles.

I think what most are trying to reinforce to everyone is LONG TERM performance...something in which he has NOT tested yet.....he is using EO's which do not hold up in wax for long periods of time....how are these candles going to smell in say 6 months, 1 year, 2 years, or even longer?

can he HONESTLY answer questions that customers may ask???? He can't seem to answer any on here without getting defensive

absyrtus - some constructive criticism about your website....explain why you are passionate about soy/natural candles....in your eco-friendly section....you listed a reason as the reason???? (they are eco-friendly because they are eco-friendly???? but you haven't touched the WHY's just HOW are your products eco-friendly????? how is soy eco-friendly, other than it is grown/renewable; how are your EO's eco-friendly...you've not explained the benefits of cold pressed EO's, etc VS synthetic FO's; how are your dyes eco-friendly and why are they better than synthetic ones...you've not explained that to your potential customers......

IMO it's these things that show your passion toward your product...show your client your knowledge and educate them about the "natural" process it's not about promoting propaganda

I guess I just have ISSUES with people saying soy is better because it is SO ECO FRIENDLY...it is still MANUFACTURED/REFINED you don't just pick a few beans, squeeze 'em, wick 'em and magically have a candle

[stephnms]

Im probably going to get alot of slack for this, but how can you all assume he hasnt tested his candles, just because he hasnt spent a year or more doing it? And to Bruce, I have made candles for the last five years and they were paraffin, now I switched to soy so Im learning it all over again plus I quit for a while and restarted. But I just dont find it as difficult as people make it out to be. Yes I have gotten on here and asked alot of questions because I do find soy to be a little more difficult to master than paraffin. But, I mean really, how long does it take to test a candle? It doesnt take 6 mths to test a candle. You burn it, you make sure it performs the way it should, and if it passes the test, then its worthy for marketing. I think people act on here as if its a scientific thing and you have to go deep into the lab for the next couple years before anything made is worthy of selling. Im sure someone will disagree, but I just had to say it.

I agree.

[MommaD]

This has truly been an informative thread. It is interesting to see what the public thinks as they look at websites. I bet that a forum simply for website feedback would be stellar.

I can't say anything that hasn't been already said in this thread, so I won't.

Every day is a learning process for us all. I had been making candles for two years when I came here, and I have learned SO much!

[StacysScentsations(DH)]

I vote for a forum dedicated to websites LOL then I can confuse the masses.

[topofmurrayhill]

Im probably going to get alot of slack for this, but how can you all assume he hasnt tested his candles, just because he hasnt spent a year or more doing it? And to Bruce, I have made candles for the last five years and they were paraffin, now I switched to soy so Im learning it all over again plus I quit for a while and restarted. But I just dont find it as difficult as people make it out to be.

Well I think you have a point to an extent. I notice that most people make things very similar to what a lot of other people are making. If you stick to the tried and true and don't really innovate, there is probably less testing involved.

Of course it also depends on your standards. The first person who tested one of your soy tarts ended up with smoke coming out of the bowl. It was obviously dangerously close to the flash point. If it had caught on fire it might very well have spewed flaming wax and your friend wouldn't have been able to do anything except flee for her life.

So are you going to test and develop the product further before deciding whether to sell it? Are you going to try it yourself in different burners, take the temperature of the melt pool, see how changing the FO levels affects it, try to re-formulate it? It would probably take a lot of time and money. The last we heard, your solution was as follows:

I guess I will just tell people that they work best in tealight warmers meant specifically for wax tarts. So they dont use oil warmers! lol.

Well maybe I don't read instructions. Maybe I don't really understand the difference between the types of burners. Maybe someone else's product worked fine in my oil warmer so I'm going to disregard your instructions.

The odds may be with you if you only sell a small number. If you were a larger company and really selling a lot of these tarts the odds would be that someone's house would burn down. If that thread in the veggie forum were part of the evidence, that's what we would call an open and shut case and they would say you knowingly sold an unsafe product.

Again, I'm not saying what you said is all wrong but I do want to offer some food for thought to people who might be overly tempted to take refuge behind what you are saying here.

[hawaiiansun]

If you did not want criticism of your site, don't offer it up. Your marketing direction is not what people on here find professional and there are plenty of professionals here. If you think that it will work for you--then go for it, but please don't offend the people here who were trying to be nice to you. You have issues with your site, either fix them or not, but that's your issue. I will be interested to see where you are in a year, after you have managed to irritate people in the community in which you sell. Maybe a business course is in order. A good product stands on its own, it doesn't need comparison.

Amen :highfive:

Next time tell us to only give complilments dude cause that is all you want. You don't want to know how you could possible make things better. People who look at your site determine how it appeals to them and that is a key as to whether they will buy or not. If you choose to ignore the help given here by fellow candle makers, don't expect much business. Marketing means making your product look good and not making someone else look bad. Try putting your ego aside and reading these suggestions. You don't have to use any of them, it's your choice, but don't get pissed cause advise is offered. I'm working on a website too and I want it to be as good as it can be. I accept any suggestions and ideas given to me.

[hawaiiansun]

More evidence people haven't been reading carefully. You're right, no one will buy a container candle from me... because I don't sell them!

so rock star what group did you play for? and what instrument?

that is so kool a rock star candle maker and a biologist too :highfive:

your talents are amazing

[eugenia]

I wanted to take a moment to explain why we get so passionate. As a candlemaker, you represent all of us. Let's say someone buys a homemade candle and it performs poorly. That consumer makes a note that handmade candles are no good and we have all lost that consumer, possibly forever. If we do manage to sell to them, we have to do a heck of a sales job to convince them that our product is superior to the inferior one that they bought from someone else.

Make sense?

e

[SatinDucky]

Ok, I'm finally going to chime in here too. Bruce is right, this has been interesting to watch.

You may not consider it "bashing" to put down paraffin to make your candles look better, but many others do. And it's great that you've talked to 10 customers who were appreciative(it's nice to have family and friends, huh?). It too bad that you'll lose out on the thousands of others because of the negative atttitude.

and I have not produced one single candle with any flaw other than ugliness.

Amazing! I've been making them 8 months and I still turn out some with flaws that have to be melted down! What is your secret?? I would love to become an expert in 3 weeks :rolleyes2

And, if any candle is burnt under proper supervision, as all candles should be, this isn't an issue.

And we all know that customers wouldn't dare leave a candle burning unattended. And if it flares up and burns their house down, I'm glad you'll be able to sleep at night knowing it's not your fault that they weren't watching your fire hazzard.

Its always the "small" ones that say "size doesn't matter".

I have to agree with this!

I just want to say one thing, I do not believe that the amount of time someone has spent on candlemaking completely determines whether or not they really know what they are doing. There is NO set of rules that states that a candle youve made is not worthy of selling unless youve spent over 6 mths testing it. I do test mine of course, I test it the way a customer would most likely burn it. I marathon burn the candles and I use the tester sheet off of this website, and if they meet the expectations, then they pass the test and if pass the test, then why wouldnt they be worthy of selling. Even if it only took me 5 days to figure it out. So I guess my point is that I think people make WAY too much of a big deal on how long people have been doing this. People can learn and do things at different speeds. And also everyone is assuming that this persons candles have not been tested. How do we know they havent been tested? I just dont understand how it could possibly take so long to burn a candle and make sure it does what it is supposed to, and performs the way it should. This person doesnt have alot of scents or alot of styles of candles, so its not quite as difficult as someone who has 50 or more scents and several different types of candles. I just think people are assuming things.

This whole thing is scary to me. Yes, you can make a candle, test it with a marathon burn, and have it do ok. Does that mean you should make a bunch and sell them? NO. Could it be a fluke? YES. You may have no air pocket in the first one. The second one might. Or a FO pocket. And that flare up could be disasterous. As for quality, I've seen many here say "I've always made this candle this way, but now it wont burn". There are so many variables that just one or two test burns wont find. And YES, experience improves with the length of time doing it. No matter what "it" is. The more you do it, the more experience you'll have. JMO

[joyofsoycandle]

So are you supposed to test burn the same candle 50 times or more before its worthy of selling? And also, the tarts that the lady was testing, she was using an oil warmer. If the flame is too close to the bowl, any tart will smoke. That does not mean that the tarts are no good. It means that the flame was too close to the bowl because she was using it improperly by fixing it up with a bowl not meant for the warmer, and using a warmer meant for oil. So, to get the seal of approval from everyone here, does it mean I need to test say a 8 ounce jar in blueberry muffin at least 25 times or however many someone decides before its worthy of being called a good product?

"Could it be a fluke? YES. You may have no air pocket in the first one. The second one might. Or a FO pocket. And that flare up could be disasterous"

So what if I test the same candle enough times to where I believe its been consistent in its burning qualities, and then there is a air pocket, or a FO pocket. Well, that statement scares me into thinking why even bother with making candles. That statement tells me that no matter how many times you test a candle there could still be a air pocket or FO pocket or some problem of some kind. I see everyones point on testing, and i definately believe in testing. However like i mentioned, what do you all expect, someone to go deep into the lab for a year or two and test 25, 50, 100 candles of the same type and scent for a year or two before they are worthy of being a good candle? If people dont use candles in the way they should, they could have dangerous problems. Such as the lady who was using a oil warmer with the bowl too close to the flame. I did test the tarts in my own warmers, a tealight warmer in two different styles, and a electric warmer. They worked fine, no smoking. My boyfriends mother also tried some and didnt have any issues.

All we can do is make candles in a way that trys to accommodate for stupid people. But we can only do so much. If they dont use them the way they should, there could be problems. My point is that If i test several candles and each has been consistent in its burnings, what more do you want, blood?

[topofmurrayhill]

Well here is a comment from someone else in the same thread:

my paraffin never does this, just my soy tarts. I don't sell them and wouldn't because of this.

Compare that to your statement and level of concern.

That's not to say you couldn't create a soy product that would measure up better. Innovation rocks. But you'd have to continue working on the product whereas you'd rather be done with it and send it out with a warning, even after your very first tester got the thing smoking.

In any event, anyone who wants to can read that thread in the veggie forum and your comments in this thread and come to their own conclusions about your credibility on the subject of testing and product development.

[hawaiiansun]

So are you supposed to test burn the same candle 50 times or more before its worthy of selling? And also, the tarts that the lady was testing, she was using an oil warmer. If the flame is too close to the bowl, any tart will smoke. That does not mean that the tarts are no good. It means that the flame was too close to the bowl because she was using it improperly by fixing it up with a bowl not meant for the warmer, and using a warmer meant for oil. So, to get the seal of approval from everyone here, does it mean I need to test say a 8 ounce jar in blueberry muffin at least 25 times or however many someone decides before its worthy of being called a good product?

"Could it be a fluke? YES. You may have no air pocket in the first one. The second one might. Or a FO pocket. And that flare up could be disasterous"

So what if I test the same candle enough times to where I believe its been consistent in its burning qualities, and then there is a air pocket, or a FO pocket. Well, that statement scares me into thinking why even bother with making candles. That statement tells me that no matter how many times you test a candle there could still be a air pocket or FO pocket or some problem of some kind. I see everyones point on testing, and i definately believe in testing. However like i mentioned, what do you all expect, someone to go deep into the lab for a year or two and test 25, 50, 100 candles of the same type and scent for a year or two before they are worthy of being a good candle? If people dont use candles in the way they should, they could have dangerous problems. Such as the lady who was using a oil warmer with the bowl too close to the flame. I did test the tarts in my own warmers, a tealight warmer in two different styles, and a electric warmer. They worked fine, no smoking. My boyfriends mother also tried some and didnt have any issues.

All we can do is make candles in a way that trys to accommodate for stupid people. But we can only do so much. If they dont use them the way they should, there could be problems. My point is that If i test several candles and each has been consistent in its burnings, what more do you want, blood?

This is pretty freakin funny:laugh2: and way extreme.

Go sell your candles joy, if there's any blood it'll be on your hands not ours. You are the master of your universe. Most people are here to help and learn, I don't know why the others are here cause the seem TO KNOW IT ALL :wave:

[prairieannie]

However like i mentioned, what do you all expect, someone to go deep into the lab for a year or two and test 25, 50, 100 candles of the same type and scent for a year or two before they are worthy of being a good candle?

Some folks on here even think you should test your candles through the seasons to make sure they act right. Perhaps we should also test each candle in every given variable that could possibly be in someone else's home, office, motel room, or wherever they chose to burn their candles??

Generally, I have to agree with most of the testing rules of thumb that are followed by our community...but that air pocket or FO pocket could show up in the 500th candle just as easily as it showed up in the first or second one! It's not as likely, however, if you have honestly tested each one, and maintain strict guidelines in your candle recipes as opposed to just tossing whatever wax you have, using whatever wick you have and whatever amount of FO falls out of the bottle for that particular batch! And you might laught, but believe me, there are "candle makers" out there who do this, sell their candles, AND make a living doing so. Scary huh?

[joyofsoycandle]

This is pretty freakin funny:laugh2: and way extreme.

Go sell your candles joy, if there's any blood it'll be on your hands not ours. You are the master of your universe. Most people are here to help and learn, I don't know why the others are here cause the seem TO KNOW IT ALL :wave:

Ya know whats funny is that I knew, i just knew that that someone would say the blood would be on my hands. LOL. I think that alot of people here are the ones who take things to the extremes. I dont claim to know it all. I just stand up for myself and I speak my mind and im not afraid to. It seems people get offended here if your opinion is not the same as theirs. That is immature.

The ONLY thing that matters, is that the candlemaker THEMSELVES has tested there candles. What do you all expect, documented testing from each person here to PROVE there candles are worth something? I dont feel the need to prove anything. It seems like people here need proof that your candles are good. If all you do is post your problems on here, then that is all people point out. But I come here when I have problems to ask for help. I dont come here and point out every single time my candles do well.

I guess this is the type of place that you can ask for advice, but dont let any personal opinions be known if they dont match up to anyone elses, or there will be huge controversy. There are alot of people here who are intelligent and have a lot of knowledge and thats why I ask for help when I need it. However, just because I ask for help doesnt mean I am incompetent and do not know what Im doing.

[cindym]

All I have to say is unbelievable. I don't understand why your website is more focused on the advese effects of parrifin candles as opposed to what you are selling, how it smells how it enhances ones life to have beautiful candles to scent and decorate a room. The soy community has been doing this hype for years and it doesn't seem to have any effect on Y@@@@@@ or other cottage industries that don't use soy. Some people love soy and some people hate it bottom line, you won't get any extra sales , believe me, by bashing other types of candles. I don't work with gel, cause I don't like it, but I love to look a gel candles and I have bought them for their beauty, I would never down gel candles because I have not researched enough to feel comfortable to do it safely. Good Luck

[RobinInOR]

As far as the concerns about requiring excess testings...

Remember this is a teaching forum too. We get a *lot* of new people who need to learn that testing is important.

When you are training someone, you don't tell them "test, test, test, oh if you think it's OK on your 2nd try that's OK, take the shortcut". You just don't teach like that. You train on the far side of safety, you emphasize the "long" way. Once someone gets their experience, they *know* that after a couple of hours the rest of the test is going to go OK. They have the experience to take that shortcut.

But if you don't know how long someone has actually been making candles before posting on this board, most people will err on the side of extreme caution.

When you start out, it does take a while to test. Maybe 3-4 one hour burns to narrow down a wick. Maybe more if you're still trying to select a type of wick. Maybe a few more to get the look you want. A normal size jar will burn for 40 or more hours - there's about a weeks worth of testing there to get to the bottom. Everyone does burn to the bottom of the jar/pillar, right? Maybe want to do it a couple of times to make sure you have some consistency. Same with pillars. Votives at least you can burn all the way in a couple of days. And sure, the next scent will go faster.

When I first started, it took me 3 months to get 3 scents of votives. New wax, new FOs, trying to find a wick. Working 40 hours/week. And I'm not that dumb at candles. After that, it now takes me 2-3 days to test a new scent.

And I've pulled plenty of product. I don't make tarts anymore because I didn't like it when my Mom's smoked. I pulled my original 2" pillars because they didn't burn when they got to the middle and retested. I pulled my essential oil only candles because after sitting 3 months on a shelf they stunk and were extremely sour smelling. So far people have been talking about burning testing, but not many take the time to do packaging/shelf life testing (all things Top mentioned)

edited for spelling

[hawaiiansun]

As far as the concerns about requiring excess testings...

Remember this is a teaching forum too. We get a *lot* of new people who need to learn at testing is important.

When you are training someone, you don't tell them "test, test, test, oh if you think it's OK on your 2nd try that's OK, take the shortcut". You just don't teach like that. You train on the far side of safety, you emphasize the "long" way. Once someone gets their experience, they *know* that after a couple of hours the rest of the test is going to go OK. They have the experience to take that shortcut.

But if you don't know how long someone has actually been making candles before posting on this board, most people will err on the side of extreme caution.

When you start out, it does take a while to test. Maybe 3-4 one hour burns to narrow down a wick. Maybe more if you're still trying to select a type of wick. Maybe a few more to get the look you want. A normal size jar will burn for 40 or more hours - there's about a weeks worth of testing there to get to the bottom. Everyone does burn to the bottom of the jar/pillar, right? Maybe want to do it a couple of times to make sure you have some consistency. Same with pillars. Votives at least you can burn all the way in a couple of days. And sure, the next scent will go faster.

When I first started, it took me 3 months to get 3 scents of votives. New wax, new FOs, trying to find a wick. Working 40 hours/week. And I'm not that dumb at candles. After that, it takes me 2-3 days to test a new scent.

And I've pulled plenty of product. I don't make tarts anymore because I didn't like it when my Mom's smoked. I pulled my original 2" pillars because they didn't burn when they got to the middle and retested. I pulled my essential oil only candles because after sitting 3 months on a shelf they stunk and were extremely sour smelling. So far people have been testing about burning testing, but not many take the time to do packaging/shelf life testing (all things Top mentioned)

Amen Robin

[StacysScentsations(DH)]

I think the whole testing thing comes into play like this.

If you pour three candles and test one and sell the other 2 you didnt test it. Should you test each one in a lab of course not. But what if you tested all 3 and nothing was wrong with one but 2 had blowouts or fo pockets. maybe you could assume that the fo is not working with the blend or temp or jar or wick or something. Burning one is not a test. How long do you think your car was tested before you bought it. What if besides a biologist or rockstar or candelmaker he was a car tester. Would you want him to drive around the block and say its all good and tested here put your kids in it? Now that may sound a little upsurd but we can imagine the consiquences of not testing. Keep in mind you are selling a product that people (not all smart) are going to light on fire in their house with their family. Their house, their family need I say more. Obviously on boards like this if you know candlemaker A uses this wax and this wick and this jar and everything is good you may not need to test quite as much but you need to test. See what I am saying the whole purpose of boards like this is for innovation, creativity and safety as well as learning from your peers. Both their successes as well as their mistakes. Thats what all the pics of botched batches and disastrious candles are in the galleries are for. To figure out what happened, why and how to prevent it. Just my 2 cents sorry for the long boring post.

PS. He still didnt fix the email order thing yet to my klnowledge so that should let you know something:

Don’t email personal or financial information. Email is not a secure method of transmitting personal information. If you initiate a transaction and want to provide your personal or financial information through an organization’s website, look for indicators that the site is secure, like a lock icon on the browser’s status bar or a URL for a website that begins “https:” (the “s” stands for “secure”). Unfortunately, no indicator is foolproof; some phishers have forged security icons.

Hey but that paragraph is just from the Federal Trade Commision website...what do they know?

[BruceCarvesWax]

Well... WHEW this sure is a big thread! I just got back from my show (fleamarket) tonight.

Would like to talk about testing again. Joy, YES it will not take us regulars a year to get a candle ready to sell since we might already have that same type jar, color, wick ect figured out and are just testing a new scent. It should only take maybe a week or two to get it to market, I might wait a month just to see how it does. This I can see. BUTTTTTT no one can tell me that this young man no matter how much he has tested (maybe one month) has made all quality burning great smelling candles in SO MANY SIZES AND SCENTS using ESSENTIAL OILS yes ESSENTIAL OILS THAT my friends I would bet MY LIFE ON !

Yes I'm anal about my candles, who wants to make just a good candle? I would be totally insulted if a customer of mine said my candles were just good.

[SatinDucky]

So are you supposed to test burn the same candle 50 times or more before its worthy of selling? And also, the tarts that the lady was testing, she was using an oil warmer. If the flame is too close to the bowl, any tart will smoke. That does not mean that the tarts are no good. It means that the flame was too close to the bowl because she was using it improperly by fixing it up with a bowl not meant for the warmer, and using a warmer meant for oil. So, to get the seal of approval from everyone here, does it mean I need to test say a 8 ounce jar in blueberry muffin at least 25 times or however many someone decides before its worthy of being called a good product?

"Could it be a fluke? YES. You may have no air pocket in the first one. The second one might. Or a FO pocket. And that flare up could be disasterous"

So what if I test the same candle enough times to where I believe its been consistent in its burning qualities, and then there is a air pocket, or a FO pocket. Well, that statement scares me into thinking why even bother with making candles. That statement tells me that no matter how many times you test a candle there could still be a air pocket or FO pocket or some problem of some kind. I see everyones point on testing, and i definately believe in testing. However like i mentioned, what do you all expect, someone to go deep into the lab for a year or two and test 25, 50, 100 candles of the same type and scent for a year or two before they are worthy of being a good candle? If people dont use candles in the way they should, they could have dangerous problems. Such as the lady who was using a oil warmer with the bowl too close to the flame. I did test the tarts in my own warmers, a tealight warmer in two different styles, and a electric warmer. They worked fine, no smoking. My boyfriends mother also tried some and didnt have any issues.

All we can do is make candles in a way that trys to accommodate for stupid people. But we can only do so much. If they dont use them the way they should, there could be problems. My point is that If i test several candles and each has been consistent in its burnings, what more do you want, blood?

I made absolutely NO mention of tarts, burners nor smoking. Nor did I imply that a candle shoulf be tested 50 times, though with some FOs and wick, that's a good possibility ..lol. That was just a bit of exageration, don't you think? I must've been mistaken, but I thought this thread was about a NEW candlemaker selling candles in numerous fragrances that couldn't possibly be thoroughly tested in such a short time. If a newbie were to make a perfect candle in 5 days, yes, I'd say it was a fluke. Someone like yourself, who has been making them for years and just switched waxes is a bit different. They will still need tested, yes. But, that experience gives you a good idea of where to start wicking, being able to tell a FO is thoroughly mixed, how much to heat your wax, etc.. etc.. etc..

Edited to add: Hmm, that's not what what this thread started about, that was a website. However, I believed we were still discussing a new person making candles.

Ya know whats funny is that I knew, i just knew that that someone would say the blood would be on my hands. LOL. I think that a lot of people here are the ones who take things to the extremes. I dont claim to know it all. I just stand up for myself and I speak my mind and im not afraid to. It seems people get offended here if your opinion is not the same as theirs. That is immature.

I guess this is the type of place that you can ask for advice, but dont let any personal opinions be known if they dont match up to anyone elses, or there will be huge controversy. There are alot of people here who are intelligent and have a lot of knowledge and thats why I ask for help when I need it. However, just because I ask for help doesnt mean I am incompetent and do not know what Im doing.

Hmm... YES, they do. And we all have our own opinions

As far as the concerns about requiring excess testings...

Remember this is a teaching forum too. We get a *lot* of new people who need to learn that testing is important.

When you are training someone, you don't tell them "test, test, test, oh if you think it's OK on your 2nd try that's OK, take the shortcut". You just don't teach like that. You train on the far side of safety, you emphasize the "long" way. Once someone gets their experience, they *know* that after a couple of hours the rest of the test is going to go OK. They have the experience to take that shortcut.

But if you don't know how long someone has actually been making candles before posting on this board, most people will err on the side of extreme caution.

When you start out, it does take a while to test. Maybe 3-4 one hour burns to narrow down a wick. Maybe more if you're still trying to select a type of wick. Maybe a few more to get the look you want. A normal size jar will burn for 40 or more hours - there's about a weeks worth of testing there to get to the bottom. Everyone does burn to the bottom of the jar/pillar, right? Maybe want to do it a couple of times to make sure you have some consistency. Same with pillars. Votives at least you can burn all the way in a couple of days. And sure, the next scent will go faster.

When I first started, it took me 3 months to get 3 scents of votives. New wax, new FOs, trying to find a wick. Working 40 hours/week. And I'm not that dumb at candles. After that, it now takes me 2-3 days to test a new scent.

And I've pulled plenty of product. I don't make tarts anymore because I didn't like it when my Mom's smoked. I pulled my original 2" pillars because they didn't burn when they got to the middle and retested. I pulled my essential oil only candles because after sitting 3 months on a shelf they stunk and were extremely sour smelling. So far people have been talking about burning testing, but not many take the time to do packaging/shelf life testing (all things Top mentioned)

edited for spelling

Amen, Right on and well said Robin! Now, if I were any good at getting my thoughts across, that is what I would've said. We have newbies come in here everyday. It is much safer if they get started on the right foot. Not only for safety sake, but for the future of their businesses. When I came here it was drilled in repeatedly, test, test, test. And they weren't just words to be repeated. It meant something. Everyone stood together and told us how important thorough testing was. And if all these experienced chandlers say it, then it must be important to do. I'm thankful for the strength of that advice and I still follow it as I still consider myself a newbie to a degree, some days a lot.

[sharyl55]

Amen Vicky, Robin and Bruce. Well said. Now to get back to the original question. I did not care for the web site. I couldn't see pictures of the candles. I want to know the specifics about a candle before I make a buy selection. Assuming that is required here since all I could get is small, med., etc. In fact the only think that did work was the bottles of EO and corresponding descriptions. I am not going to change my browse setting to view anyones web site.

Now for the turn this post seems to have taken. My intro to candle making was from library books. Some were good and some left a lot to be desired. Fortunately I found this board. I learn something new here everyday. One of my 1st learning was test, test and then test some more. And I learned that diff. wax temps, pour temps, suppliers, etc. will affect the quality of my product.

I am still a wick newbie and will continue to test extensively. This is a decision each candle maker has to make. I only have a doz. scents I feel are saleable. I have a cabinet full of FOs that I am still testing under optimum and extreme conditions. One good burn does not make a saleable candle. Can't even count the number of failures I've documented. IMO we have to assume the customer will NOT read the use instructions and warning information. I didn't as a consumer before I started to learn about candle making so why would I assume my customers will. If you feel you candles are perfect then go for it. Only you know.