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...and the story goes on!


ubure
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After getting very much useful feedback to post about this company who wants me to make 15K lotion candles for them; I'd like to tell you how the story went on:

In fact, it is getting quite complicated now - I have told them all about my concerns (certification, liability etc. etc.), but they just don't bother. They are a big company (cosmetic in some way, I suppose) and they bring out a new perfume in the near future, so they want to have these candles with their scent. I'm a bit speechlees, but the wholesaler they have charged with the order says they are a bit complicated but they are certainly not poor and they WANT the stuff. At least I don't have to worry about payment, because they pay in advance:D( they always do, says the wholesaler). Oh, and this company says they don't have the time to talk to me personally and that I should contact the wholesaler because he (infact it's a she) is the one who has to organize everything.

As soon as their perfume is out, they'll send me it, also the other ingredients they want to have in this lotion-candle-whatever so we can see how we can work on it. They'll pay for everything that is necessary.

I also have enough time for the development. If they like the finished product they will order more (so the 15K are only their first testing order).

Obviously I think in too small dimensions...

But the best thing is: the wholesaler you has too chose the company who will make these candles has already chosen me (instead of a really big German candle company that also does stearin candles. but they are mass products, sold in drugstore chains etc.) because she says she likes how I care about this issue, about the whole proceeding which shows her that I really mind about what I am doing. She has given me her trust.

Today I have contacted some friends (lawyers, consultants) to consult me in legal and insurance things.

Seems as if it really works out for me - hopefully, because I really need this money to make our life a bit easier that it is now.

If you still have some tips for me or things I have to care about, please tell me - at the moment my head is so full...

Thanks for being there!

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What kind of facilty do you have to make your products? Are they made in your home, or do you have a separate facility?

This arrangement sounds fishy to me. A large company getting ready to lauch a perfume in the near future has contacted you to make a lotion candle. Huge companies generally have their own staff to handle their manufacturing deals, not a wholesaler. What do you know about this large company, or the wholesaler for that matter?

I also find it odd that once their perfume is out they will send it to you and also supply you with a list of other ingredients they want in the candle. Who is making that determination? I would tend to believe they must already have made the candle, or else they are stealing someone else's forumula. It doesn't make any sense. It takes months if not years for legitimate companies to launch products, and now when they're getting ready to sell the perfume they suddently decide to add a candle to the line? Things usually don't work that way with big business.

I would definitely do some research on the company and the wholesaler. I would want to find out what other companies this wholesaler has worked with and talk to them to see how their deal worked out.

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I don't find it odd that they want to wait till launch to give her a sample, perfumers are notorious for being paranoid about their perfume blends. They have a right to be paranoid, millions are a stake and a competitor could easily steal or buy a sample of the scent and dupe it.

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I don't understan much of all the legal things and such, my onky advice is that you (as you are already doing) consult lawyers, acountant, and who ever comes to your mind to put your duck in a row.

Other than this I can't tell, and I find it quite understandable that you will have the perfume after the official launch. If they give it to you before you could jump in the market... launching complimentary lines can be done after the perfume is on the market, I don't see any problem in this. As far as the "other ingredients" maybe those folks are thinking to put some oils or so as a skin treatment and the you will test if it can be done.

In the end, I wish you all the luck of this world, I hope it will be great business with no shadows.

Way to go, Inez! Wish I was nearer so I could learn something from you.. and maybe give you a hand!

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What kind of facilty do you have to make your products? Are they made in your home, or do you have a separate facility?

This arrangement sounds fishy to me. A large company getting ready to lauch a perfume in the near future has contacted you to make a lotion candle. Huge companies generally have their own staff to handle their manufacturing deals, not a wholesaler. What do you know about this large company, or the wholesaler for that matter?

I also find it odd that once their perfume is out they will send it to you and also supply you with a list of other ingredients they want in the candle. Who is making that determination? I would tend to believe they must already have made the candle, or else they are stealing someone else's forumula. It doesn't make any sense. It takes months if not years for legitimate companies to launch products, and now when they're getting ready to sell the perfume they suddently decide to add a candle to the line? Things usually don't work that way with big business.

I would definitely do some research on the company and the wholesaler. I would want to find out what other companies this wholesaler has worked with and talk to them to see how their deal worked out.

I do have a separate facility.

I know, it all sounds really strange, but obviously it isn't. I also do have a somewhat strange feeling, but on the other hand I take no risk at all: they pay for everything in advance, they take the responsibility.

I don't think it strange that they send me their raw materials to use in the candle - if they are a cosmetic company they don't necessarily have the knowledge to make candles. That's why they entrusted the candle wholesaler to find a company that does soy candles (and we are two in Germany: this big company and me:wink2: - in the USA they would find a big company, but here soy is practically unknown). The wholesaler is absolutly trustworthy and she has worked several times with this corporation. And they didn't suddenly chose to have a candle: the wholesaler told me that they are discussing since january about the containers, now that that's decided the whole issue with the candle itself starts. So this is something they have planned from the beginning.

Anyway, the most mportant thing is that I don't have to pay for supplies or anything else before I've got my money from them. Nothing is contracted yet, and believe me, I'm watching carefully. As soon as something gets really weird I'm off.:cool2:

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I don't understan much of all the legal things and such, my onky advice is that you (as you are already doing) consult lawyers, acountant, and who ever comes to your mind to put your duck in a row.

Other than this I can't tell, and I find it quite understandable that you will have the perfume after the official launch. If they give it to you before you could jump in the market... launching complimentary lines can be done after the perfume is on the market, I don't see any problem in this. As far as the "other ingredients" maybe those folks are thinking to put some oils or so as a skin treatment and the you will test if it can be done.

In the end, I wish you all the luck of this world, I hope it will be great business with no shadows.

Way to go, Inez! Wish I was nearer so I could learn something from you.. and maybe give you a hand!

Thanks Sabrina - I indeed have thought about inviting you to a viit to Bavaria, combined with some nice hours of candle pouring:D:D:D!

I don't think you need to learn something from me, really. Everbody is a specialist in his own field, right?

Oh yes, their ingedrients are special oils and skin treatments they are already using and want to have in the candle as well - that's quite normal I guess.

I promise, today evening you get your quotes!!!!!!

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Oh, I forgot: I have incredible assistance from the German division of Intercontinental Fragrance (Houston). The offered me to check the company and they assist me in this whole affair (the person responsible being a former owner of a candle company, for 30 years, and he's the one who does all the testing, especially for soy!! I will probably change completely to them).

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Good luck, Inez! I would be sure to tell them to send me the perfume in an oil base, since most perfumes are in an alcohol base (which of course would not mix well with a flame).

Hi Jennifer,

yes, I know - I have to tell them. Thank you!!

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Thanks Sabrina - I indeed have thought about inviting you to a viit to Bavaria, combined with some nice hours of candle pouring:D:D:D!

I don't think you need to learn something from me, really. Everbody is a specialist in his own field, right?

Oh yes, their ingedrients are special oils and skin treatments they are already using and want to have in the candle as well - that's quite normal I guess.

I promise, today evening you get your quotes!!!!!!

Don't bother about my quotes, you have your brain working like a mad now!

I'd like to learn something about conainers and company, but in the ens seeing the prices I should pay for glass and such.. I always let go!

Go Inez, I'm so happy for you!

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In consulting with your attorney I would suggest that you have a very clear understanding of the contract. I mean you understand EVERY word, even if the attorney has to take hours making you understand it. One thing that comes to mind is this big company may own the rights to your formula for your candle. Make sure you don't give that up...you won't be able to sell another candle again. And if the other company suggests that you use their attorney, resist that urge. You need someone who is looking out for your needs. It will cost you now, but it will protect you in the future.

Good luck! Things are really coming quite fast for you!

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In consulting with your attorney I would suggest that you have a very clear understanding of the contract. I mean you understand EVERY word, even if the attorney has to take hours making you understand it. One thing that comes to mind is this big company may own the rights to your formula for your candle. Make sure you don't give that up...you won't be able to sell another candle again. And if the other company suggests that you use their attorney, resist that urge. You need someone who is looking out for your needs. It will cost you now, but it will protect you in the future.

Good luck! Things are really coming quite fast for you!

I've talked about this to my consultant, and it's quite a problem - even if they agree on not copying my candle they simply can do so if they change the formula just a tiny bit. We're working on this, but it's tricky. There are several things that are not clearly to decide at the moment, that is what makes me tingly. If it was a simple contract - fine. But this is extremely complicated. And I absolutely need to have 100% certainty and security. I won't take any risk that is unforseeable. We'll see...as I said before, before it gets too weird I'm off.

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If this is going to be a lotion candle - who is going to take responsibility for ensuring that it meets european safety regulations? If the company supplying the perfume say they're going to do it, but they don't - and then that candle causes an allergic reaction in somebody - it would be YOU who was sued as you are the manufacturer and you didn't get the product certifued. If I were you I'd ensure they were certified before they left your door - but add the cost in to the quote you give them.

Nat

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