Do you have to do this for your insurance co.?

[so-soy]

Hi all, well I have been checking on some insurance companies for my candles, and the one thing that they require but I hadn't heard anyone here ever mention it is every label your going to put on your candles/b&b jars has to be run by them first. They have to approve the wording etc...Is this something new? I haven't heard of insurance companies doing this before, and now I'm thinking of how much time it will take when you want to change a stinkin label because you have to send them one first and they have to approve it......anyone elses insurance requiring this? Thanks all!

[awickedscent]

Ours doesn't require us to do that. What a PITA

[sockmonkey]

I've never heard of that before, but from a legal standpoint, if they are approving the label, then there is NO way they can't be held accountable in paying claims, should your product cause any harm.

I imagine what they are looking for are certain phrases that will prevent you from being sued, such as "not liable for accident or injury due to improper use, blah blah blah."

If they have to approve it, then they must already have standard verbage to be followed, so I would ask about it.

[TeriM]

sounds to me like they may be talking about the warning label.. I would sure ask them to confirm it....

I've never heard of it before... what company is it?

[Country Crafter]

With our application for insurance yrs. ago we supplied literature about each product we used, a synopsis of our methods, a copy of warning labels and information brochures, a fire inspection certificate with applicable diagrams showing where our equipment, extinguishers etc. were located, pics of the shop which showed our storage applications of fragrances, caustic materials etc. including an estimate of maximum amounts at any given time, a listing of our melting equipment, (our company insisted on approved for the use equipment only, no prestos, fryers etc., funny double boiler was ok), and food processing certification, (we make some foods, chocolates, etc. for our gift baskets.), as well as expected maximum stock levels, equipment on hand, expected yearly volumn of sales. Some of what we sent was overkill but all material is retained on file.

We did not supply our product labels but a signed statement that biz contact info would be applied.

Gotta luv insurance regs! We update any information yearly with our renewal. Our insurance is a commercial policy based on homebased with a seperate building insured seperately from the dwelling for business. Information concerning flammable and caustic products and quantities as well as location is also on file thru our local fire department.

Wendy

[cowgirl]

Hi all, well I have been checking on some insurance companies for my candles, and the one thing that they require but I hadn't heard anyone here ever mention it is every label your going to put on your candles/b&b jars has to be run by them first. They have to approve the wording etc...Is this something new? I haven't heard of insurance companies doing this before, and now I'm thinking of how much time it will take when you want to change a stinkin label because you have to send them one first and they have to approve it......anyone elses insurance requiring this? Thanks all!

I am still working on my insurance and I just talked to my agent today and he wanted labels on everything I was planning on selling, soaps, lotions, lipbalms. He didn't ask for a warning label for the candles but I will supply that just so I don't have to do it later. He even wanted the ingredients list on M&P soaps. He also told me that when I decide to make CP/HP soaps that the lye would make a difference. I haven't even crossed that bridge of making CP/HP soaps yet so I have no idea what ingredients would be on that.

I dunno, like I said, I am still working on it.

[candlemandave]

In regards to country crafter...

Holy Crap That is incredible, I bet they win Anal Insurance People of the Year award every year.....But, honestly, not a bad thing. Your premiums should be much lower than the average policy. I guess you can see why the US sues so damn much. Maybe if we had policies like the such, we wouldn't be able to.

[cowgirl]

Ok my insurance man just called me again, the insurance he quoted me was for liablility not product liability well heck, if i understand this correctly in my opinion that is bascially worthless, i told him to check into the product liability cuz i just wanted to see how much it cost and i think thats what i need NOT liability. he suggested i go talk to my atty too. He also stated thats the difference between an LLC and a corporation. He also mentioned its going to be sky high. I guess I will find out huh.

Oh yea, he also said I should have disclaimers on all products but should check with an atty

I started working on insurace a couple months but backed off it cuz I wasn't selling to the general public at that time and still not but reading all the insurance questions on the board lately I figured it would take awhile to sort it all out to figure out exactly what was going on......sigh,,,the wonderful world of insurance and attys, I suppose I am not too bad off my best friend is an atty and my insurance man is another but damn, every time you turn around its another huge expense.

ETA: SO-SOY is this for product liability ? or just the liability ?

[Country Crafter]

Hi Dave, lol, gotta agree it did seem like a bit much at the time however it is not only for the insurance companies protection but for ours too. It insures that we are fully covered if the need arises and it forces us annually to keep our equipment, stock, building everything up to date and documented. Especially important when our insurance is based on stock levels both finished and unfinished, equipment used, volumn of sales etc. We have to look at the previous yr. when up for renewal and estimate the upcoming yr. Sometimes our premiums go up, sometimes down but overall the policy although costly (lol aren't they all) offers discounts for documentation and we are insured each yr, for exactly what we need.

Another thing we require is export product liability insurance, most policies only cover the country the policy is taken out in, we require riders for each country we ship to and each country is a different rate, (U.S. being the most costly with Japan right behind). This can vary for us each yr. and if we drop a country, the loss of a rider may drop our insurance for the yr as much as 150 dollars.

LOL so much track of, thank goodness for a very organized office keeper who handles most of this, lol, not me!

Wendy

[hometowncandles]

Sky High is right, just on what little I do from home for candles and b&b my insurance company wants almost $900.00 per year. They didn't ask for labels, but they did request a list of my ingredients for each of the products I make and about the conditions under which they are crafted, at home, garage, building, whether the area is sanitary, etc. But my agent also said that when I get a shop, that he can do a blanket policy for personal liability and it won't be as costly nor as detailed. You may want to check into that if you have a shop separate from your home.

I think it is ridiculous the things an honest business person has to go through just to make sure they are covered in the event of an accident. But so many people now days are looking for any easy to make a living without working and there are a lot of judges out there handing down these ridiculous awards from insurance companies to compensate so called "victims". Many of which are so due to their own neglegant behavior in using products and not due to the products themselves. So I guess it's either pay a lot now or possibly a whole lot later. JMO though.

Jennifer

[bugtussle]

When I applied (& got) candle liability insurance last spring they asked for a copy of my Warning Label and thought it was worded really well and protected both my company and any retailer selling my candles. They would have to defend me in case someone decided to sue. I think they have every right to make sure you have a complete warning label. Carole

[Mei-Mei]

Another reason they may want a copy of your labels (not just warning labels) is to make sure you don't make claims that open the insurance company to liability. For instance:

Such-and-Such Country Candle Company

Our candles make you fly!

They make you the most popular person at the party!

They make your breath smell like sunshine!

That's a big exaggeration but you know what I'm getting at.:smiley2:

[cowgirl]

I totally agree with everything you guys are saying however this is what else has me concerned. With liability if you get sued its basically worthless, with product liability its pretty much useless too, true its better than liability but the way my insurance man explained it IF you get sued, they sue the business & they can possibily take your personal belongs ie: house if it went that far...IF is a big word for a small word. ANYWAY he said the only way to be completely sure of not losing anything but the business is to be incorporated. sighhhh

Has anyone been told this ????

[mixnwax]

I had to provide the same information to my agent before getting insurance. He said the reason for this is that the insurance industry pays out more on copyright and trademark infringement lawsuits every year than they do on actual damages by the candles themselves.

[bugtussle]

Cowgirl, yes, that is true, but hopefully if you make a safe product, have a proper warning label and someone sues, the insurance company will defend you & use their lawyers to drop, settle the suit. Do you know how much it would cost to hire lawyers. JMHO Carole

[cowgirl]

ummm yea EXPENSIVE to hire lawyers, like i said before my best friend is an atty and he loves corp law so yes, i know what he has gotten paid on a few cases. But what I can't seem to get in my head is this liability is pretty much worthless so why pay for it. I know everyone wants to put out a safe product but this is the year of 2000 like someone said earlier, ppl are just wanting the easy way out and that keeps sticking in my mind, maybe to over-protect myself ???? Make sense or am I just babbling here ???

[Kimberly]

ummm yea EXPENSIVE to hire lawyers, like i said before my best friend is an atty and he loves corp law so yes, i know what he has gotten paid on a few cases. But what I can't seem to get in my head is this liability is pretty much worthless so why pay for it. I know everyone wants to put out a safe product but this is the year of 2000 like someone said earlier, ppl are just wanting the easy way out and that keeps sticking in my mind, maybe to over-protect myself ???? Make sense or am I just babbling here ???

Well, Insurance is not worthless. Yes, you are correct that you need Product Liability...not just General Liability. What your Agent quoted you is for if you owned your own shop...basically a BOP (Business Owners Policy). Being an Insurance Agent makes you see the importance of being protected.

It is true that if someone sues you they can also go after your personal assests if you are not a LLC or Incorporated in some way, but this usually only happens to those who DO NOT have Insurance. Most judges will only award damages to the plaintiff in the amount of your total policy.

You say your best friend is a Lawyer...ask him how much he charges for his services....it isnt cheap! The main thing, to me, about having PL Ins is that if I am sued my Ins company will provide a lawyer to defend me.

Ins is not cheap in most states. Most companies will not take on this sort of risk. I write for one of the major carriers and I could not write my own policy. I had to go to a fellow agent.

Please, whatever you do make sure your Agent writes you a good PL Policy. Things to look for ...you want at least 1million Liability PER occurance....make sure you have product coverage for if you do shows or craft fairs, what I mean is that you have coverage for your stock and if someone gets hurt in your booth, some companies exclude this.

Good luck...let us know what you find as I am sure there will be other people from Indiana wanting Ins and need to know what companies will write it there.