parrafin wax bashing

[CareBear]

hee - and I think that if you "make" something, it isn't!

[ChrisR]

hee - and I think that if you "make" something, it isn't!

I have to agree Carol. I make beeswax candles and although the wax itself is 'natural', once I add a wick to it, it isn't natural and I have never call it an 'all natural candle'. If I had to call it something, I'd call it '100% beeswax' and nothing more.

[simplybeelightful]

That may be right but, if that's true then very little in life in truly natural. Right? Even that apple has been picked, trucked to a processing plant, washed, inspected, graded for size and quality, coated with wax to make it shiny then trucked to a grocery store to be sold. So is that not a natural food then?

Just because you take the beeswax from a hive of bees, melt it down, pour it in a mold and stick a wick in the middle, then it's not a natural wax any more?

Guess I don't understand that line of thought. Oh well, guess we'll just agree to disagree on this point!

[CareBear]

I'm good with that.

And I love beeswax candles. Wish I had some... Do you have a web site?

Edited July 28, 2010 by CareBear

[Scented]

That may be right but, if that's true then very little in life in truly natural. Right? Even that apple has been picked, trucked to a processing plant, washed, inspected, graded for size and quality, coated with wax to make it shiny then trucked to a grocery store to be sold. So is that not a natural food then?

Just because you take the beeswax from a hive of bees, melt it down, pour it in a mold and stick a wick in the middle, then it's not a natural wax any more?

Because something man made has been added. If the wick were a twig, I think you could still call it natural, but it isn't a twig and wicks are treated ...

Same with apples. If you pluck it from the tree and chomp on it then it's natural as long as no one sprayed on it.

[lsbennis]

I guess if you wanted to get geek about it you could say that everything is natural.

Everything that we see touch and smell even synthetics and man made are made from naturally occuring elements.

Just a random thought! :rolleyes2

[Scented]

I guess if you wanted to get geek about it you could say that everything is natural.

Everything that we see touch and smell even synthetics and man made are made from naturally occuring elements.

Just a random thought! :rolleyes2

Randomizing ... if something is added to the "natural" state then it doesn't exist as "natural." Synthetics aren't natural now are they? They don't sprout from a root but a process, right?

[lsbennis]

Randomizing ... if something is added to the "natural" state then it doesn't exist as "natural." Synthetics aren't natural now are they? They don't sprout from a root but a process, right?

Very true Scented...I guess my thougt process was that if you think about it at a very base level everything is created from a naturally occuring element. For example...water (H2o) 1 atom Hydrogen 2 oxygen. This occurs naturally and therefor is natural.

However, Iron mixed with Carbon will created Steel, to my knowledge this does not exsist naturally and must be created by man, so does this mean that steel is not natural even tho it was created by natural elements at the base level? So I guess one could argue that all things on earth whether naturally occuring or man made is created from natural elements. Right?

Edited July 28, 2010 by lsbennis

[CareBear]

the word is absolutely meaningless. natural could mean "derived from nature" in which case it applies to everything in existence since matter can neither be created nor destroyed.

or it could apply to next to nothing since man, by our very existence, changes the environment. or to be more concrete - we "make" stuff out of other stuff.

[lsbennis]

the word is absolutely meaningless. natural could mean "derived from nature" in which case it applies to everything in existence since matter can neither be created nor destroyed.

or it could apply to next to nothing since man, by our very existence, changes the environment. or to be more concrete - we "make" stuff out of other stuff.

Exactly...lol...its all relative to what one considers natural, personally I would not consider FO's or colors in candles to be natural so I would not call it that even tho at some core level it may have been.

Edited July 29, 2010 by lsbennis

[chuck_35550]

I would gladly go back to the days when most of us were using J waxes and zinc wicks and had only a handfull of fragrances. Candles were all the rage and they flew off the shelves. You didn't have to pander to specialized tastes or change up your jars. Customers have become so pampered by all the competition that they can dictate all kinds of stuff from a poor guy trying to turn a dime. Forget great profit margins and welcome to the world of over priced wax, fragrance and glass. You make a product with your own two hands or with your employees own two hands and no machine makes it for you. That's as natural as it gets in this century.

[Soapintastic]

Ok. so following the line of thought that if something is made, it isn't natural, then all humans are not natural. we don't naturally occur in nature. We need to be made.

sorry. I just don't buy that line of thinking. In law, they apply a "reasonable" standard. Is it reasonable to think a candle made with only beeswax would be considered "natural" by a reasonable person? I think so.

I think consumers expect a "natural" product to be made of natural things, rather than highly processed/lab created things. Take a poll. Ask people what natural means to them. If they want to burn earwax for a candle and call it natural, more power to them.

Others may think a jar of beeswax with a wick in it is natural.

[CareBear]

Ok. so following the line of thought that if something is made, it isn't natural, then all humans are not natural. we don't naturally occur in nature. We need to be made.

well there ya go then.

[topofmurrayhill]

Normally we just use the dictionary.

"Present in or produced by nature."

That is sometimes the first and always one of the first definitions of "natural." I think it's clearly the definition that's most relevant to the discussion.

A common sense interpretation confirms that all major candle wax materials are natural. Generally the candlemaker buys candle wax products that are natural and then adds synthetic additives--so if your mind is conditioned to believe that synthetic stuff is bad stuff, there is unfortunately no culprit except the one you see in the mirror. It's dishonest to claim innocence or point the finger.

Suppliers of candlemaking materials often apply the term "natural" to waxes derived from vegetable oils. Obviously they are not trying to use the word correctly; they've invented a definition for marketing purposes. Having a conversation based on made-up definitions gets a little pointless.

People often consider materials that have undergone less processing to be more natural, and I believe dictionaries do list that definition of the word. Fair enough. However, vegetable oils need at least as much processing as paraffin (and sometimes much more) to become soy waxes and palm waxes.

I think beeswax and bayberry may be the only commonly known materials that become candle wax without a lot of processing. And good old-fashoined animal tallow of course. So I guess these would be the best candlemaking materials if civilization should collapse.

[EricofAZ]

Nothing new under the sun here, it is a type of human nature.

When I was in the aviation business I learned that there are two kinds of people....

Those who stand out by lowering others around them ... and ... those who stand out by raising their quality above others.

I think we all respect and admire the latter.