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Its too bad when a soy candlemaker has to bash a parrafin candlemaker.

by saying" regular candles are petroleum-based, therefore giving off the harmful black soot that contaminates the air we breathe as well as staining our walls and windows." This quote was in our local paper yesterday under new business in our area. I would think that someone who has faith in their product would be speaking about the positive side of their product and not knocking someonelses. Takes all kinds to make a world

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Well I would demand a retraction from the newspaper (since I work for one) and would inform them to look at the National Candle Association for starters (specifically the Q&A section). I believe any candle will soot black if not wicked properly. Now they aren't going to want to hear that, but a lot of us are sick of the myths that are floating out there. Not every soy maker is going to do that and it would be nice if they could be educated before they made a candle (some are though!) and that they would participate in helping to stop the myths and fallacies. But then we all want a perfect world don't we?

Anyway, as a responsible candlemaker, it's also up to you to oh help fight the battle too ;)

And what a shame it is that others put down other products (particularly ones used to make those other products as part of the processing), but it happens all the time. People actually think they aren't necessarily doing an injustice you know ... kinda like the people who practice religion on Sundays only by going to church and thinking one hour is enough.

I gotta get off this soap box lol! I hate this debate a lot and I'm definitely not unbiased on this topic.

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Well I would demand a retraction from the newspaper (since I work for one) and would inform them to look at the National Candle Association for starters (specifically the Q&A section). I believe any candle will soot black if not wicked properly. Now they aren't going to want to hear that, but a lot of us are sick of the myths that are floating out there. Not every soy maker is going to do that and it would be nice if they could be educated before they made a candle (some are though!) and that they would participate in helping to stop the myths and fallacies. But then we all want a perfect world don't we?

Anyway, as a responsible candlemaker, it's also up to you to oh help fight the battle too ;)

And what a shame it is that others put down other products (particularly ones used to make those other products as part of the processing), but it happens all the time. People actually think they aren't necessarily doing an injustice you know ... kinda like the people who practice religion on Sundays only by going to church and thinking one hour is enough.

I gotta get off this soap box lol! I hate this debate a lot and I'm definitely not unbiased on this topic.

I agree entirely with Scented. We candlemaker's need to work to bring about reality based information, and to deliver it to the media each time we run accross a situation like the one Ingrid has.

Janette

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I only say...Candles is Candles, simple as that...and there's pros and cons for everything out there. no matter what. I am not going aroundd bible pumping candles facts with people. People knows what they want and like. Simple as that. Now...talk about Dollar store candles...now that i bash!! lol

buy my candle and it's money well spent rather than stocking up on them cheapy dollar store candles HAHAHAHAHA

I"m off my soap box... :D

Dani

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I am new to this candle making business and I am learning as I go on so bear with me here. From all the research I have been doing everywhere I go I see articles and information on the benefits of soy over parrafin. I am not sure that a newspaper article pointing out all of the benefits is so bad. If they were bashing a particular candle maker then that is a problem. If soy wax does burn cleaner and longer then why shouldn't someone use that as a selling point to their candle? I plan on making soy candles as long as they are cleanest burning on the market. If something else comes out in the future that burns cleaner than soy I would change. Does anyone else out there defend my standpoint or am I all alone on this one, lol!

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I never bash soy even though I don't use that for my waxes. If I ran across someone who wanted stictly soy, I would turn them to a friend on here because that is who I am about. Not that I haven't been able to do that yet. I give kudos to those who can do soy because from what I have heard , it's more of a P.I.T.A. I can't stand when the Soy Nazi's is what I call them have to take drastic measures to make sure that people buy soy. It sucks, but they do it.

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I am new to this candle making business and I am learning as I go on so bear with me here. From all the research I have been doing everywhere I go I see articles and information on the benefits of soy over parrafin. I am not sure that a newspaper article pointing out all of the benefits is so bad. If they were bashing a particular candle maker then that is a problem. If soy wax does burn cleaner and longer then why shouldn't someone use that as a selling point to their candle? I plan on making soy candles as long as they are cleanest burning on the market. If something else comes out in the future that burns cleaner than soy I would change. Does anyone else out there defend my standpoint or am I all alone on this one, lol!

Well Bill you have not done enough research if you think soy is the cleanest burning wax. BW is right up there so is Palm wax for clean burning. But truthfully there has never been any real scientific evidence to prove the supposed soy facts. All the articles and suppose fact are just propaganda at this point. If any real studies that are not biased are done I guarantee you the big boys will have links to them on every one of their sites and by big boys I mean Enchanted Lite, Cargill, Ecosoya, and Golden Brands. Not only that but you will find those same link on candle suppliers site that specialize in soy wax.

Just like saying soy burns 30% longer than Paraffin that is not always the case. It is if you take straight soy and straight paraffin both wick properly yes soy will out burn paraffin but once to start getting in to the blended waxes that changes drastically.

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I agree. Although soy is all I make, besides some gel candles, I can't bash the paraffin ones because the gel is petroleum based like the paraffin and I would be counterdicting myself! I do state the facts of the soy over paraffin just to let people who have health problems know there are alternatives. If someone who wanted paraffin contacted me I would refer them to someone else.

I am new to this candle making business and I am learning as I go on so bear with me here. From all the research I have been doing everywhere I go I see articles and information on the benefits of soy over parrafin. I am not sure that a newspaper article pointing out all of the benefits is so bad. If they were bashing a particular candle maker then that is a problem. If soy wax does burn cleaner and longer then why shouldn't someone use that as a selling point to their candle? I plan on making soy candles as long as they are cleanest burning on the market. If something else comes out in the future that burns cleaner than soy I would change. Does anyone else out there defend my standpoint or am I all alone on this one, lol!
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I am new to this candle making business and I am learning as I go on so bear with me here. From all the research I have been doing everywhere I go I see articles and information on the benefits of soy over parrafin. I am not sure that a newspaper article pointing out all of the benefits is so bad. If they were bashing a particular candle maker then that is a problem. If soy wax does burn cleaner and longer then why shouldn't someone use that as a selling point to their candle? I plan on making soy candles as long as they are cleanest burning on the market. If something else comes out in the future that burns cleaner than soy I would change. Does anyone else out there defend my standpoint or am I all alone on this one, lol!

It burns cleaner because the soot is white? Is that what you mean?

All candles are going to have some form of soot as it's going to be a by-product of flame and chemicals. If wicked properly all candles burn just fine and one isn't better than another IMO, but to promote that soy is a cleaner burn because the soot is white is a joke, again IMO.

And prove that soy burns longer. I've been next to soy sellers and heard their pitches. Their candles don't burn as long as mine and I'm not a soy user. They promote that they have the longest burning candle on the market, but that's a farce too.

I don't diss any kind of wax. I get involved in the debates, because there is so much myth and fallacy out there. I do not tell consumers they are being lied to. I give them fact sheets that explain the differences of the waxes and have websites on them where they may find more information from the heavies in the business.

As for the newspaper article ... they printed what appears to be one side of the story ... a typical no no for reporters. But then reporters may not have an interest in finding out more to what people say in such minimal matters as they may deem this. Just my .05 (because I feel like being more expensive today lol!)

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I was going to put a lot of similar comments on my website and candles, however before I claim the US farmer portion I need to make sure that the wax I use is actually using soy beans grown here in the US and not imported from somewhere else to save a few bucks.

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This is all my website says about soy candles:

Why Soy?

  • Soy wax is a natural by-product derived from soy beans grown right here in the Midwestern United States. These crops are grown every year fueling the American economy.


  • Soy wax supports American Farmers 100%.


  • Soy wax contains no carcinogens (cancer-causing agents).


  • Soy wax is 100% bio-degradeable.


  • Soy wax can be cleaned up with just hot soapy water.


  • Soy wax candles give off virtually no soot if manufactured right. Have you ever seen black soot on your ceilings or underneath your cupboards?


  • Soy wax burns cooler---making them safer to burn (never leave a candle of any kind unattended).


  • Soy candles have a 25%-50% expanded burn time over other candles.


  • Soy candles can be burned even in the presence of gas fireplaces. (Paraffin candles are not to be used in homes containing gas fireplaces. Overtime, they will clog the synthetic logs used for these fireplaces).


I don't think this is offensive. Let me know what you think.

I find it offensive. Prove the cancer crap to me and tell me the reason why you use it? So we can take this one at a time, but there's not even a reason to bring it up is there? Yet, you do.

Soy wax is not a natural by-product. Do you think they squeeze the bean to get the wax? It doesn't just peal off the bean either. It's manufactured to get the wax from what's left of the product once the farmers harvest them, but the wax is a minute portion of soybean growing in the US.

I don't buy the expanded burn time either. I think that's a joke.

Good to know that there is now a gas fireplace issue out there.

You did forget that using soy wax will keep your Mona Lisa's from losing that smile ... :tongue2:

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I have never heard of "white" soot before? Now I am really confused, lol!

Again, that's because you haven't researched the properties of soy wax nor probably paraffin. This is what happens when people go by what they hear, not what they've discovered for themselves. I direct that comment at candlemakers, customers, journalists, anyone who touts the "soy is the best" mantra.

Any thing that burns, causes soot. Period. Just because you can't see it doesn't mean it's not there. Burn all the soy candles you want, you'll still have soot on your walls, in your filters, etc. Out of sight is out of mind, hmmmm?

I use a custom parasoy blend. Not because I want to push any specific marketing ploy, but because I like the results.

I too get sick of hearing all the "soy is God" crap. A local radio station the past two mornings has been quoting some book by a Dr. about helathy living and he's all over paraffin candles, touting the soy thing and they're spouting off all this crap about how bad paraffin is and how if you see any candle with a metal core that it's LEAD and to stay away from it!!! Unbelievable. I'm sending them off an e-mail with a few facts to straighten them out....they'll have the whole damn area boycotting paraffin candles.

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Why Soy?

  • Soy wax is a natural by-product derived from soy beans grown right here in the Midwestern United States. These crops are grown every year fueling the American economy.


  • Soy wax supports American Farmers 100%.


  • Soy wax contains no carcinogens (cancer-causing agents).


  • Soy wax is 100% bio-degradeable.


  • Soy wax can be cleaned up with just hot soapy water.


  • Soy wax candles give off virtually no soot if manufactured right. Have you ever seen black soot on your ceilings or underneath your cupboards?


  • Soy wax burns cooler---making them safer to burn (never leave a candle of any kind unattended).


  • Soy candles have a 25%-50% expanded burn time over other candles.


  • Soy candles can be burned even in the presence of gas fireplaces. (Paraffin candles are not to be used in homes containing gas fireplaces. Overtime, they will clog the synthetic logs used for these fireplaces).


I don't think this is offensive. Let me know what you think.

Gosh, some soy candle makers will believe anything they see huh? Amazing.

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Now if I read what I posted right, I made NO mention of Soy candles being better than paraffin. The only thing I said about paraffin candles are they clog the gas logs up--which HAS been proven. I DO know this for a fact because we have 2 gas fireplaces not even 3 years old and we have replaced the logs at least once in each of them---they should have lasted a good 10 years. We WERE told by someone who has been in the gas fireplace business for 10 years that the paraffin candles are what did it--I always bought them and burned them---from a major candle company. Since gas fireplaces are a huge industry here I am just trying to save others the expense of having to prematurely replace the logs.

I would never say soy candles are 100% natural becasue there is NO candle that is 100% natural due to what is put into it.

http://www.candle-licious.com/html/soy_vs_paraffin.html.

The only thing I don't agree with is they say the soy wax is not watersoulable. I know it is without the scent and dye because it and I think it cleans up quite nicely with hot, soapy water.

Here is something about soy and parrafin candles. I'm not by any means against paraffin candles.

I find it offensive. Prove the cancer crap to me and tell me the reason why you use it? So we can take this one at a time, but there's not even a reason to bring it up is there? Yet, you do.

Soy wax is not a natural by-product. Do you think they squeeze the bean to get the wax? It doesn't just peal off the bean either. It's manufactured to get the wax from what's left of the product once the farmers harvest them, but the wax is a minute portion of soybean growing in the US.

I don't buy the expanded burn time either. I think that's a joke.

Good to know that there is now a gas fireplace issue out there.

You did forget that using soy wax will keep your Mona Lisa's from losing that smile ... :tongue2:

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Thanks Bill I was looking for that. I knew I read it somewhere. All in all, you can't please everyone and people are entitled to their opinions. So, if it works for you than do it.

Someone mentioned that the "majors" such as Eco Soya would have the benefits listed on their website if they were true. Well.........NGI makes Eco Soya and here is a link to their website describing the benefits of soy.

http://www.ngiwax.com/AboutEcoSoya/Benefits.php

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I have never heard of "white" soot before? Now I am really confused, lol!

Let me confuse you even more by giving you my point of view - from experience.

I have made and burned soy candles for years now. I have never seen white soot - ever. I have absolutely huge BLACK window blinds on every window in my living room - there is no white soot on them after all this time. Nor do I have black soot on my walls - which are all white. I HAVE seen soy throw black soot for many reasons - over wicked, in drafts, or from air currents in the jar that make the wick "dance".

I also make beeswax candles probably one of the most natural waxes there is and let me tell you - if you don't trim the wick on a BW candle properly it will throw soot like crazy.

So my point is that you:

1. Need to make a good quality candle and

2. Need to tend to it properly

That is the best you are going to be able to do.

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Okay, I need to speak up and say something here. I am a soy candle maker and I can tell you for a fact that if you marathon burn a soy candle, without trimming the wick, you'll have as much soot in that container as anyone else making parrifin candles.

If a wick is properly trimmed and the candle, reguardless what type, is kept out of drafts, it will burn clean with little or no soot.

I speak from experience. I have a wholesaler who refues to trim the wicks when he burns my candles in the store and they look terrible! Not only are the wicks not trimmed, the candle sits all day in a draft of the door opening ever few minutes. The jars are black on top and burning very poorly due to the draft!:tongue2: I've given up. Not matter how much I try to get them to get with the program, the refuse because they are lazy!:undecided :mad:

Anyone who says soy can't, won't soot~ OH YES IT CAN!

Fire

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Ok, another question. Do we know what EXACTLY causes the soot. Is is the FO and dye? Would a candle with no FO or dye burn clean? Would a candle using EO's, no dye, and natural wicks burn clean? I plan on testing a lot of these theories out but I figure most of you have already!

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Well all I know is that I did my first craft fair this past weekend and I had a ton of people come up to me and say doesn't Soy soot less then Paraffin? My response to them all was..."Any candle will soot if not wicked properly or burned correctly"...I think this should be a standard response to this question. Some people seemed suprised at my response and to be honest most could care less they just want a good quality candle.

However having said that I do feel that if a product has certain "true" benefits there is nothing wrong with promoting that quality to the public without bashing another product. I know that if burning Paraffin candles made wrinkles on your face go away everyone making Paraffin candles would be promoting them as the Fountain of Youth in a candle, so I don't see anything wrong with promoting the qualities of a product. That is just how marketing works! :cool2:

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Now if I read what I posted right, I made NO mention of Soy candles being better than paraffin. The only thing I said about paraffin candles are they clog the gas logs up--which HAS been proven. I DO know this for a fact because we have 2 gas fireplaces not even 3 years old and we have replaced the logs at least once in each of them---they should have lasted a good 10 years. We WERE told by someone who has been in the gas fireplace business for 10 years that the paraffin candles are what did it--I always bought them and burned them---from a major candle company. Since gas fireplaces are a huge industry here I am just trying to save others the expense of having to prematurely replace the logs.

I would never say soy candles are 100% natural becasue there is NO candle that is 100% natural due to what is put into it.

http://www.candle-licious.com/html/soy_vs_paraffin.html.

The only thing I don't agree with is they say the soy wax is not watersoulable. I know it is without the scent and dye because it and I think it cleans up quite nicely with hot, soapy water.

Here is something about soy and parrafin candles. I'm not by any means against paraffin candles.

Again, you were TOLD this. You never saw this in writing from anyone that did scientific studies did you? I have burned parrafin for yearsssssssss and have always had gas fireplaces and never had a problem. Hmmmm I am not trying to get nasty with you, just trying to show you that all you are getting your facts from hearsay and web crap , not from scientific studies that are written in stone.

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Good candlemakers market the quality of their products, regardless of the ingredients. Paraffin is natural, non-toxic and biodegradeable. Would a paraffin candle be marketed primarily on that basis? Of course not, because that would be a lame way to market a candle.

So why do it with "soy" candles? Because it's an easy way to imply that these facts apply to your candles and not others, making them better. It helps eliminate the inconvenient need to market based on the quality of the product. That's the kind of marketing that gets prohibited with things that matter, like food.

Anyone who has put effort into candle design and testing can tell you that soy candles don't last longer than paraffin candles by any stretch of the imagination. Ignorance is no excuse. It's easy to borrow a common lie and call it research. Even if you believe it, there's enough laziness and wishful thinking to make it the moral equivalent of dishonesty.

When the cookie factory needs GB 415 they call and order vegetable shortening. When a candlemaker needs GB 415, they call and order 100% soy wax. Why is that? Maybe because "soy" sounds better and helps maintain the mystique. It doesn't tell you what the candle is really made of.

Now states and municipalities are starting to prohibit the use of this product in food service establishments because of the "artificial trans-fats" it contains. Isn't it a little bit puzzling that "natural wax" can contain artificial trans-fats?

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