Fingernails - BAD

[Donita]

All of a sudden it came to me......my old brain remembered when I had some fingernailing.....several years ago I was experimenting with a chemist who was working with Scenti Masterbatch solid fragrance from Germany. They said that you could use up to 10%. The idea behind this product is that even though is cost more initially, it already has additives so it saves you money there. I really loved their scents....they even lasted for years!!!!!!!! But.........sometimes I did experience the "fingernailing"....guess it came from too much additives in their product that I had no way of knowing what it was. There were times that I used less but I wasn't looking for the fingernailing thing then......I quit using it only because it doesn't work in mottled or crackled candles and that is mainly what I do.....but the product is excellent.....just don't use so much.....LOL Donita

[Henryk]

Well, I tried the C15. It does get rid of the fingernailing, but does make the wax more opaque. I think less so than vybar. Just thought I'd post a pic or two. The pink one is a remelt of the one of the ones that had the fingernailing.

[Henryk]

And here is the white one again with a plain 1218 candle (no additives). I don't know if the difference will show up - but the one with C15 is much more opaque. The C15 makes a very nice shiny, hard, white candle if that is what you are after. (I know that 1218 one is tunneling - its wicked that way so that it goes down into the candle and glows - which is what I was after. Its hard to tell, but it has the fingernailing also - just hard to tell because there is no dye in it).

[eugenia]

Henry, I know they weren't what you were after but perhaps the poly can save that wax for you. They are pretty, shiny pillars. :smiley2: I just got some of that. Thanks for showing me what it will do.

e

[Henryk]

Thank you and you are welcome. Sorry the pics do not really show too much, but they did come out much better than I thought. I will be testing some of the rest of the wax with the micro 75 and 95 when it comes in next week. If those don't get rid of the fingernailing while keep the transparency, I will definitely be using the rest of the wax with the C15 additive, but it might be interesting to compare the C15 against plain 'ol stearic also. I am also thinking the C15 might make a good hurricane additive from the looks of it. (Forgot to say I used 2% - and you do have to melt it first separately, then add the wax).

[DanaE]

Yeah, I'm loving the Gloss poly, but I'm only using it in OK6228, which is very opaque to start with. Man, I pulled out pillars yesterday that were so shiny I could see myself in them - LOL!

Henry, has the Gloss poly changed the way your candles are burning? I'm burning 1 candle from the batch, but wondering if I should burn one of each color/fragrance to make sure my wicks are right....

DanaE

[SatinDucky]

OK, so C15 is Gloss poly?

[Henryk]

Yes its "Gloss Poly C-15". Basically, you would be burning a type of thermoplastic (its polyethene) . Also called luster crystals. Use 1-2%.

DanaE, I don't have a wick I like yet for the 3" 1218 pillars - but so far, they seem to be burning the same with or without the c15. (They are only on their first burn though). I would definately test burn a few.

[DanaE]

Thanks Henry. I thought I'd burn one of the lighter colored pillars and one of the very dark pillars with a heavy cinnamon oil and see if the wicks are acting differently. So far I don't see a change (on my 3rd burn).

I'm really impressed with the Gloss poly and I'm glad I purchased it. Now when I unmold my pillars I almost hate to touch them because they're so shiny! I'm trying to unmold and shrinkwrap them without actually touching them-LOL!

DanaE

[topofmurrayhill]

It's Epolene C-15 polyethylene wax from Eastman Chemical.

http://www.quimisor.com.mx/tecnicas/Epolene%20Waxes%20as%20Candle%20Additives.htm

Close relative of what's in your hot glue gun.

[Henryk]

DanaE - know what you mean.

(... and it would be nice if suppliers would call the additives what they really are instead of three different names for the same product.)

[SatinDucky]

It's Epolene C-15 polyethylene wax from Eastman Chemical.

http://www.quimisor.com.mx/tecnicas/Epolene%20Waxes%20as%20Candle%20Additives.htm

Close relative of what's in your hot glue gun.

I have plenty of glue sticks... wonder what would happen if I added a chunk to wax?

[topofmurrayhill]

(... and it would be nice if suppliers would call the additives what they really are instead of three different names for the same product.)

I know. At least there's a good hint with the Gloss Poly.

The worst is Fischer-Tropsch wax = Paraflint = Clear Crystals = Translucent Crystals = more or less the same substances that work almost identically. I ended up with far too much of the stuff before I caught on.

As far as the plastic goes it's really exceptional for getting the shiny opacity. A similar thing to the Gloss Poly you might want to try (if you can figure out if it's called Happy Crystals or Crazy Crystals or whatever) is ethyl vinyl acetate (EVA). The manufacturer's brand name is Elvax.

You would think these things are the new space age candle additives but they've been in use for several decades. Seems that newfangled Vybar has displaced them.

[topofmurrayhill]

I have plenty of glue sticks... wonder what would happen if I added a chunk to wax?

I think your glue stick has that EVA stuff I just mentioned.

[Henryk]

"Fischer-Tropsch wax = Paraflint = Clear Crystals = Translucent Crystals"

Good, I have paraflint on order - now I don't need the other 3.

[Henryk]

I wanted to do a final post (after finding this particular thread again) - that the additive of choice for me to totally kill the fingernailing without increasing opacity was paraflint at 1 tsp. PP. "Cooking" the wax unfortunately didn't work for me. Secondly, Microcrystalline 175 at ~ 1% was almost as effective - so if you have that on hand - try that first. Your wax may respond to it without going to the paraflint. (And as you can see - my last slab of 1218 was pretty bad in the fingernailing aspect).

Hope this helps someone.

EDIT: Scratch my comment about the C-15 being perhaps useful as a hurricane additve - too opaque for that. I found that 1260 with paraflint is excellent for that. (I've been using that combo for electrics - gives a very hard shell with a great, even glowing quality).

[topofmurrayhill]

Maybe the best solution for fingernailing is to throw the wax away. I guess the jury is still out on what causes this flaw, but it seems to only appear in random batches of wax.

I've had the problem with an occasional batch of Candlewic wax and it wouldn't set up without flaws even if I poured it plain. Other batches were fine. I've messed with the 1218 on and off and have never seen a fingernail whereas it's driving you crazy with the slab you bought.

I really, really doubt the problem is intrinsic to this wax, especially if a synthetic polymer is the only way to get rid of it.

[lindsaycb]

OOOO, I've had this too..and I thought they were bubbles in the wax. BUt I can also get this in my J223 too.

[Mtngrl]

I think fingernailing can be cool. It's one of those mysteries that we think we know what causes it, but we can't re-create it & we can't stop it. However, putting aside the inconsistencies, I think they add character to a candle that otherwise would be quite boring. I think I read once that mottling was considered to be evidence of a defective wax, but now it's something that pillar makers will eventually pursue. I know I have, & still do.

If it burns poorly, then .... obviously, it's no good. On the other hand, it's our expectations that sometimes gets in the way of our ability to recognize a happy accident. As long as the candle burns as it ought, I say, rejoice in your unique candle! Just my 2 cents.

[DanaE]

I've never noticed that fingernailing makes any difference to the way my candles burn. I burn quite a few myself, and usually try to keep the ones with the worst fingernailing. It can be aggravating though, when you're going for a deep red shiny pillar and 2 days later it has white circles all over it *sigh*.

Henry, I'm going to try the paraflint and see if it takes care of the problem. The Gloss poly C-15 didn't do it, still had fingernailing on some of the pillars, and I went back to my old trick of adding in about 7 ounces of container wax to a 4 lb batch but that didn't work either! I'll probably add soy to my batches until I can get some paraflint to see if it takes care of the problem. I know that mixing OK6228 and 4794 gets rid of the fingernailing, but I'm low on the 4794 and need it for my cinnamon buns.

DanaE

[Henryk]

Dana - you mean you can actually still SEE the fingernailing in the candle? The C-15 made the 1218 so opaque I couldn't see into the candle (well, not much anyway compared to how clear 1218 is in the first place).

I used 2% I believe of the C-15. Sorry it didn't work for you.

Would you consider using vybar? It would make the wax very opaque - and will probably change your colors to be more "soy like". (I don't know what you are after so I thought I'd mention that).

See, now you have me worried :undecided . I need to make some white candles today and I think I'll add vybar and c-15 even though I'll be using my 1343 instead of 1218. (I want them hard and shiny - per the c-15, but I also wanted them without the fingernailing - if any would occur.)

[DanaE]

Dana - you mean you can actually still SEE the fingernailing in the candle? The C-15 made the 1218 so opaque I couldn't see into the candle (well, not much anyway compared to how clear 1218 is in the first place).

I used 2% I believe of the C-15. Sorry it didn't work for you.

Would you consider using vybar? It would make the wax very opaque - and will probably change your colors to be more "soy like". (I don't know what you are after so I thought I'd mention that).

See, now you have me worried :undecided . I need to make some white candles today and I think I'll add vybar and c-15 even though I'll be using my 1343 instead of 1218. (I want them hard and shiny - per the c-15, but I also wanted them without the fingernailing - if any would occur.)

Henry, I only get the fingernailing in OK6228, which is very very opaque to start with! I don't really care if any of the additives make it more opaque, since you can't get much more opaque than this wax

I don't get fingernailing at all with my mottling waxes or votive waxes so it's not something I'm worried about there.

And yeah, I love how glossy my pillars came out with the Gloss poly, but even on a very light, almost white pillar I could still see the fingernailing. On the darker pillars - brown, burgundy, red, etc. the fingernailing looks like someone threw big white circles inside the mold before they poured.

I never had fingernailing with 1343, so you may not have a problem with it. I also didn't/don't get fingernailing with 1274 or 4045H. It's only OK6228 and it has always been that one wax that did it. Years ago I took care of the problem by adding container wax. Somewhere along the line I stopped, and then just recently (within 5 months or so) the fingernailing came back.

I CAN add vybar, but it's a preblend so I have to be very careful how much I use. I normally add about 1/4 teaspoon vybar per lb with OK6228, along with a couple of tablespoons of Crisco, and occasionally I throw in some container or soy wax. Adding the vybar didn't stop the fingernailing. My blood red, gorgeous shiny pillars, which had vybar, gloss poly and container wax as additives, started fingernailing about a week after I made them *sigh*.

So paraflint is my last chance. If it doesn't work, I'm just going to keep adding more container wax until the fingernailing stops. It used to work for me, but maybe I'm not adding the correct percentage to stop it.......

DanaE

[Scented]

I use 1343 and some batches of it have gotten the fingernailing.

[topofmurrayhill]

Dana - you mean you can actually still SEE the fingernailing in the candle? The C-15 made the 1218 so opaque I couldn't see into the candle (well, not much anyway compared to how clear 1218 is in the first place).

If DanaE's C-15 was purchased from BCN, that could explain it. They seem to be a little confused over there. From what I can see they are selling Vestowax and calling it Gloss Poly. If that's what DanaE has, then she's already using the equivalent of Paraflint - just another kind of F-T wax.

[Henryk]

Well, thats interesting - the C-15 I'm using is from BCN! (To be clear, my paraflint is from Genwax.)

So, Alex, are you saying that my C-15 from BCN is actually Clear Crystals (Degussa Vestowax) ?

I assume then that if I want REAL C-15 I would be safe to purchase the Luster Crystals from Candlewic?

Dana - where did you get your C-15?

Would be nice if the vendors could keep things straight so we could! At this point I don't know what the #### I have since I am getting different results with my paraflint and my C-15. (The former is not opacifying the wax, the latter is).

Thanks again Alex for all your help.