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Why does my wax keep doing this? I tried dif PT's, dif wicks, dif wax, no FO's, banging the glass on the counter... the only thing that stays constant is the jar. The whole top comes out really smooth except for a sink hole. I zap it with a gun, bunch of bubbles come up and more holes form. But then it goes and sets up the same! If it's a bubble/air issue, then how come I see no bubbles when I pour, or any come up when I tap? Can it be the jar? Any suggestions, I'm going mad!!!! :P TY! Oh and the wax is 444

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The special suckage of 444 is the sink hole. Or maybe you can get rid of that and advance to the circular crack stage.

The wisdom is that you fix this with pouring temperature -- about 130 being recommended. Of course, nobody recommended this to the wax, which will do as it pleases. But anyway you might want to go back to experimenting with PT and maybe the cooling rate.

There's more info in past threads if you want to do some reading. Try searching on "444" or "444+sink+holes" or "444+crack" or "soy+blows".

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I agree with Top also. I personally did not like the 444 because of the sink holes and the circular crack. I also wasn't happy with the cold throw. The hot throw was not bad for me but very little cold.

Sometimes if you have a sink hole,you can zap w/the heat gun and poke some relief holes, while zapping with the heat. As the heat up the top,those relief holes will fill in with the melted wax. ;) But I found with this wax it took too much time playing with the heat gun to fix that darn top.

Edited to add: Have you tried the 449? It didn't give me as many problems as the 444.

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SilvermOOn I use the GW444 and have the same problem. I use the 8 ounce jelley jars. I have poured at the recomended temp of 130 , tried it at 140, 150, 160 and even 110 and still the same problems. The best thing you can do is keep the heat gun handy. I try pouring a little extra in the jar because it helps fill in when you heat up the top and poke relief holes. Ah-Soy mentioned cooling temps and he has a point but since I live in a small condo and have to work in my kitchen and really need my air conditioning cause its really hot in Florida. I havent tested cooling in a totaly warm area. That might just do the trick but I really dont know for sure.The only other way to fix this is save some wax from your first pour and do a second fill in but thats a pain in the rear end. All that said this is still a good wax with a nice hot throw and once you zap it with the gun it comes out really nice. You might want to talk to your supplier too as they might be able to give you some ideas to help with the problem. All things considered this is a good wax once you gets used to its little irritations.

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Hmmm...this wax seems to be doing to you exactly what C-3 does to me...ah, the beauty of soy!!!! I find with my wax, if I pour a bit hotter, like around 150, I don't get the sinkhole, but I get the round hairline crack, which to me is a bit easier to fix. Trust me, your wick, dye, and FO have nothing to do with it. Also, I do find that just leaving the candle to completely cool overnight before blasting it with the heat gun helps. I've fallen into the whole thing of wanting the soy ugliness to go away as soon as it shows up on my tops, even if the candle is still slightly warm...so I start to blast it immediately with the heat gun. Well, I have much better results if I just let the chips fall where they may with the candle, let the sinkhole appear, let the round hairline crack make it's presence known. Then, I just embrace the ugliness overnight (with some tossing and turning in my sleep...LOL), allowing the candle to COMPLETELY cool, and attack it with the heat gun the next day. I then have much better results. The other option would be to pour the candle as you've been doing, save a bit of wax in your pouring pot, allow the candle to COMPLETELY cool, reheat the leftover wax in your pot to about 5-10 degrees hotter than your original pour, and then do a second pour over the top...a lot of people swear that this is the best solution.

It isn't something you're doing. This is soy...and like Top mentioned, each soy has they're own version of suckage. I think the original statement was that each soy wax "sucks in it's own special way." Really, aside from the sink hole, you have a very pretty soy candle going on there...nice color, and I'm sure they smell wonderful!

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I agree with other 444 users. The sinkhole is just inherent in this wax, and is worse with lower ambient cooling temperatures.

This wax seems to cool rapidly on the very outside (bottom, sides, and top), in order to promote good glass adhesion and a smooth top. The side effect of this is that even a very minute amount of air in the wax rises to meet what is already a smooth and already-formed top layer.

Cooling the candle in an ambient temperature of greater than 78*F does help this a little. Alternately, as others have said, the heat gun is your best friend, and isn't a huge deal unless you're producing dozens and dozens of candles at a time.

And this:

Also, I do find that just leaving the candle to completely cool overnight before blasting it with the heat gun helps.

is excellent advice regarding the heat gun. Heat gunning within the first hour or two has the potential to give you cauliflower tops (similar to 415), especially with more citrus FO's.

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I don't think it would help significantly, to be honest. The only way I've found to get rid of sinkholes is to pour a bit hotter...around the 150 mark. And then, once you've resolved that issue, then you boldly graduate to the hairline crack around the wick issue. Then, you throw up your hands, wait until the next day, and blast with a heat gun for a few seconds. This has been my experience.

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Then remind me not to try this wax. :laugh2:

There really are quite a few people who do like this wax...it's just the nature of soy. Each and every soy wax on the market has it's own set of issues...there isn't one type of soy right now that doesn't have some kink to work out of it...and once you get that worked out, it doesn't mean that you won't have some new issue on your hands. Soy is tough. Fortunately, I've befriended my heat gun, and it's the best tool a soy chandler can have...it will sort out most of the appearance issues, and then we too can have pretty-looking candles like our paraffin buddies. :wink2:

For example, EZ-Soy from BCN has a great scent throw for many people, but if not poured cool enough, will give some a really rough top after setting up. And Enchanted Lites Mill. Blend can give a better appearance more readily than EZ-Soy, but has a crappier scent throw. C-3 has a great scent throw, pours hotter, colors like paraffin, but will give you trouble with sinkholes and hairline cracks. One soy will smell produce awesome smelling candles, but will frost so automatically that it looks like it went through a blizzard.

So with soy, we do have to use the wax that delivers the most important aspect of a candle to us (for me, that would be scent throw), and learn how to work through the suckier aspects of the wax...

This is why many people are taming their soy waxes with some paraffin and creating para-soy, or soy/paraffin blended candles...the use of paraffin will alleviate many of the issues that straight soy-users face.

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On top of my sink holes, now I'm getting crazy frosting! So after a long nights testing here is what I've discovered. For this 2.5" jar pour at 150 and let cool slowly in a cooler or put a box over it. I still got a small "dent" near the wick but I don't believe that will go away. As for the frosting, after trying many dif temps, the 150 works best. For my 3" jar, the PT has to be at 180 and doesn't need to be covered. Weird huh? I knew the jar had something to do with it!

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On top of my sink holes, now I'm getting crazy frosting!

I've had that happen if I heat gun out a wet spot to temporarily make a candle more photogenic. The frost appears a day later, but only where the candle was heat gunned.

Is it possible your frosting issues are coming from cooling too slowly, or with too little air flow?

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There really are quite a few people who do like this wax...it's just the nature of soy. Each and every soy wax on the market has it's own set of issues...there isn't one type of soy right now that doesn't have some kink to work out of it...and once you get that worked out, it doesn't mean that you won't have some new issue on your hands. Soy is tough. Fortunately, I've befriended my heat gun, and it's the best tool a soy chandler can have...it will sort out most of the appearance issues, and then we too can have pretty-looking candles like our paraffin buddies. :wink2:

For example, EZ-Soy from BCN has a great scent throw for many people, but if not poured cool enough, will give some a really rough top after setting up. And Enchanted Lites Mill. Blend can give a better appearance more readily than EZ-Soy, but has a crappier scent throw. C-3 has a great scent throw, pours hotter, colors like paraffin, but will give you trouble with sinkholes and hairline cracks. One soy will smell produce awesome smelling candles, but will frost so automatically that it looks like it went through a blizzard.

So with soy, we do have to use the wax that delivers the most important aspect of a candle to us (for me, that would be scent throw), and learn how to work through the suckier aspects of the wax...

This is why many people are taming their soy waxes with some paraffin and creating para-soy, or soy/paraffin blended candles...the use of paraffin will alleviate many of the issues that straight soy-users face.

Yeah, I know. I've been working with both paraffin and soy for years. The frosting doesn't bother me. Rough texture is not a problem. But sink holes? That's a whole 'nother ballgame for me. I hate waxes that have to be "touched up" to make 'em look good, KWIM?

As you say, to each his own. Some people hate the look of soy altogether. :)

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Wow, that is a biggin! I use to use a wax that did that to me all the time (paraffin). The jar has a lot to do with it with certain waxes. Some jars, I couldn't beat it and others no probs whatsoever. The manufacturer always told me to pour cooler but that never seemed to fix the problem. Put them back in the box after your pour and throw a towel over the box so they cool more even. You might even get lucky and get a bar of soap :laugh2: OK, not funny but it's all a gamble really. I'm sad to hear this as I am getting ready to test this wax. I'm so not a fan of sink holes :undecided

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I've had that happen if I heat gun out a wet spot to temporarily make a candle more photogenic. The frost appears a day later, but only where the candle was heat gunned.

Is it possible your frosting issues are coming from cooling too slowly, or with too little air flow?

I'm not sure if that could be the case, because I tested every which way possible, with every possible temp. That's why I'm going to conclude that EVERYTHING is the problem!!! :laugh2: Ok it's not that bad, but I will say the jar is a big factor. I believe that the jar controls what temp to pour at. At least that's what my research has found, and so far it works for me!

Jeannie like jhepp said you really should try the wax. You'll have to work some kinks out, but overall it makes a great candle.

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