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I know that some fo's are hard to mix but how long does it realistically take to mix in (I know, how long is a piece of string)? I have stirred vanilla fo for over 5 mins and it still seems to sit on the bottom of the pot, also the wax temp has dropped considerably in that time if taken off the heat. What's worse - to keep stirring while wax is heating or to take it off the heat but then reheat when fo finally mixes (if at all :cry2:)?

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I've never had a problem with my vanilla's. I use variations of it in J-50, 4794 & 1343 and as long as the wax is at the proper pouring temp the FO has mixed in just fine. Even tho a wax is to be poured at say 165-170 deg, I make sure it goes up to around 185 before I add the FO, and then mix it in well. Another thing I do is heat my pour pot before I put the wax in because adding a wax to a cold pour pot can significantly lower the temperature. HTH

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I know that some fo's are hard to mix but how long does it realistically take to mix in (I know, how long is a piece of string)? I have stirred vanilla fo for over 5 mins and it still seems to sit on the bottom of the pot, also the wax temp has dropped considerably in that time if taken off the heat. What's worse - to keep stirring while wax is heating or to take it off the heat but then reheat when fo finally mixes (if at all :cry2:)?

Will try to help but need to know the following:

What wax are you using?

Are you using a scale?

How much fo and did you weigh it?

What temp. did you add the fo?

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I posted a slightly contradictory answer in the duplicate thread but maybe I'm wrong.

I can see the value of pre-heating the FO to prevent temperature drop if you're mixing it into an unheated pouring pot. But let's say the pouring pot is heated so that's not an issue...

Is there still an advantage to pre-heating vanilla? It gets hot when it's put in the wax anyway. Or does it just work and we don't necessarily know why?

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Will try to help but need to know the following:

What wax are you using?

Are you using a scale?

How much fo and did you weigh it?

What temp. did you add the fo?

Using straight paraffin wax with 6% fo, weighed on my to-the-gram scale. Added wax at 175 and stirred and stirred and stirred. Also stirred again when did repour at 185. And it still had blobs!!!! :(

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I posted a slightly contradictory answer in the duplicate thread but maybe I'm wrong.

I can see the value of pre-heating the FO to prevent temperature drop if you're mixing it into an unheated pouring pot. But let's say the pouring pot is heated so that's not an issue...

Is there still an advantage to pre-heating vanilla? It gets hot when it's put in the wax anyway. Or does it just work and we don't necessarily know why?

Some routinely as a preemptive step do warm vanillas and heavy fos. Others, although the success rate is not high will try it when all else fails. Personally, when a fo causes problems, I simply don't use it.

The only time I have warmed fo is when there is evidence of crystallization in the bottle due to cold temperatures. Warming should be done by sitting the contained appropriate amount in a bowl of warm water for just a few minutes. Never ever in the microwave or direct heat!

When incorporating heavy fos into wax, your formulation and procedure must be perfect. Your wax has to be hot enough and all weights must be accurate. In a paraffin formulation a few extra grains of vybar can help to bind but know that overuse may lockup the scent. Another method of last resort in order to save your tester, is to pour your wax through a coffee filter to trap the errant fo. If and when that should happen it's time to move on and continue your search for a compatible fo.

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Using straight paraffin wax with 6% fo, weighed on my to-the-gram scale. Added wax at 175 and stirred and stirred and stirred. Also stirred again when did repour at 185. And it still had blobs!!!! :(

Are you adding vybar or any other additives to your straight paraffin?

Vybar will make a difference!

Try mixing nice and easy with a wire whisk...keep it low, you do not want to whip air into the mix.

Also check with the manufacturer of your wax, you may need to heat it to 200 F.

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Maybe her straight paraffin simply can't handle 6%? Some straight paraffins only hold 3%, so that could be the problem.

I've never had an FO that wouldn't bind to the wax. I've had some settle out, where it was obvious I used too much FO and not enough wax, so I've either added more wax or vybar, or strained out the excess.

It could be because I add FO at a high temp (depending on the type of wax, at least 15-20 degrees above pour temp). I just know that if I put FO in, looked down and it was just hanging around in the pot, I'd strain it out, throw out that bottle of FO and put another FO in - LOL! (I used to try to whip the excess FO that was sitting in my pour pot with a whisk to make it blend into the wax, but it always settled back out, so I learned to add more wax to my pour and move on)

DanaE

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  • 2 years later...
I posted a slightly contradictory answer in the duplicate thread but maybe I'm wrong.

I can see the value of pre-heating the FO to prevent temperature drop if you're mixing it into an unheated pouring pot. But let's say the pouring pot is heated so that's not an issue...

Is there still an advantage to pre-heating vanilla? It gets hot when it's put in the wax anyway. Or does it just work and we don't necessarily know why?

This is a good question and I'm wondering if anyone has an answer. My FO can drop as much as 10 degrees even in a pouring pot that is heated.

I haven't had too much trouble with the FO not blending, but have tested some and discarded because they didn't have a strong HT.

I wonder if those FO's would have cooperated better by heating them in some warm water before pouring into the heated pot?

Does anyone heat their FO before putting into their pour pot? If so, do you only do that for the heavier FO's?

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Does anyone heat their FO before putting into their pour pot? If so, do you only do that for the heavier FO's?

I heat all my FOs before adding to a cold pour pot. I found that the fragrance oils were dropping the temperature of the wax by 30 degrees when added, and I worried that this was causing FOs not to bind. I've found that I have much better hot throw with this approach. I heat my FO on a candle warmer for about 10 minutes before adding to wax.

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Maybe her straight paraffin simply can't handle 6%? Some straight paraffins only hold 3%, so that could be the problem.

DanaE

I have to agree with this. When using a straight paraffin, it only holds 3-4% FO. If I use 6% of a heavy oil like vanilla, some of it does not incorporate and puddles in the bottom of the pot...the wax can't hold it all. But, I heat my wax to 185*, keeping it in a pan of hot water, add my FO and stir till the temps raises to 190*. Then I remove from heat, add my dyes and start the cool down process depending on what I'm making, i.e. mottles, rustics, etc.

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In all the years I've been making candles, with all different types of wax, I have never heated my oils or stirred for more than a minute or so.......never used a whisk, stood on my head, whistled Dixie or any of the other silly things I see some do. The few FO's that didn't mix were gotten rid of as there are way too many other good oils out there that will mix with no problems. :cool2:

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I've never had this type of problem with any FO, vanilla or otherwise. I only pour veggie waxes, so it might be different with paraffin. I honestly am wondering if Mozzie's FO is just incompatible with her wax and another supplier's FO should be tried...

I also realize that how quickly temps, etc. affect a batch depends a LOT on the size of that batch - folks who make small batches may have to employ different techniques than people who are making large batches of wax... I typically melt 5#-9# of wax at a time, then add FO & dye in the pouring pot - so I am working with 1-2 pounds of wax at a time. It can be challenging to keep the temp from falling too quickly in cold weather or in small batches. Many FOs develop crystals in cool weather and may need to be prewarmed before adding to the wax.

Hope that somewhere in all the experiences shared here, Mozzie, that you find something that solves your issue!! :)

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I heat all my FOs before adding to a cold pour pot. I found that the fragrance oils were dropping the temperature of the wax by 30 degrees when added, and I worried that this was causing FOs not to bind. I've found that I have much better hot throw with this approach. I heat my FO on a candle warmer for about 10 minutes before adding to wax.

I do the same, but with my electric griddle (I think I've mentioned this before). I've found the exact same thing - better hot throw and quicker incorporation. I have a presto that heats up 8#'s of wax, but I then use the spout to measure out 1# at a time. If the FO is not warmed or put in after, my temps drop too fast and for most of my FO's, they do not seem to incorporate very well. The presto pot sits at 200 degrees and the griddle 150 (the FO only ever reaches approx 115 or so for some reason, could be griddle, could be the pot, I don't know) and this gives me a better incorporation.

It also seems to help that once I do get the FO incorporated, it also takes liquid dyes a lot easier.

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I keep my griddle set to 200 all the time and keep all my pour pots on it. I never pour my wax into a cold pour pot. The only time I have found some beading up in the bottom of pot is when it is a strong fo and I need to cut back on the amount/% used. I have never heated fo and there are only 2 or 3 of all my fo's that I have found will do this so I simply cut back on the fo and that has taken care of the problem.

I always either have my presto pot full of the hot wax I pour into coffee pot which hold 3lbs, or either my turkey fryer. When doing small amounts/orders I don't like to work with over 2lbs at a time for mixing fo and dye into.

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I second the wire whisk idea. I found this awesome tool at Winn-Dixie in the Italian food section. It is like a wire whisk but the wisk is a little ball on the end of a stick. Does a great job of mixing the FO without getting too much air in the wax because the wire ball stays submerged. Also, I'm using the double boiler method and as such, my wax does not cool down when I add the FO. I used to use a wooden stick to stir but could not get all the FO to incorporate uniformly.

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When I first started making candles, I hadn't heard of using a Presto Pot and did all mine in a double boiler. I guess that's the reason I carried the double boiler along into my process once I added the Presto Pot. I heat my wax in the Presto, add wax, FO, and color, then put the pouring pot into my double boiler while I'm doing the mixing--I've never had any FO that wouldn't incorporate and I use a lot of heavy, bakery FOs. I guess it works because the double boiler brings up the temperature of the FO and keeps the wax hot until I'm ready to pour.

Jane

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I've actually gotten some fo's that will not mix or stay mixed from Royal Aromatics/Trinity fragrances. :angry2: I'ts like it isn't made for candle application at all. Stir like crazy and the stuff just falls back to the bottom of the pot as drops. If I actually manage to get it poured, it will settle out of tarts and candles before they set up and be an oily glop on the bottom. Yech!! And to top it off they did absolutely nothing to make it right.

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