Problems with hot throw

[mczac99]

I'm just getting started making candles. I'm using LP 402 100% Natural Soy Wax, 100% cotton wicks, 1 - 1 1/2 oz. F/O per pound wax. I've been experimenting and most of them has a good cold throw, but when I burn them, you can't hardly smell them. In fact, I put one in my small bathroom from my 1st batch and shut the door for about 20 minutes. When I opened the door, you could just smell some sort of chemical smell (maybe from the wick?!?). Anyway, with that batch, I started out heating the wax to 160, then adding dyes and oils and pouring...I had trouble with them setting up good, they were frosty looking and had oils seeping out the top...so needless to say, that didn't turn out good. So, I decided to just heat 'til it was completely melted (around 140), added dyes, then let cool to around 100 and added F/O, then when starting to get slushy, I poured into jars. They looked great (set up quick and were smooth and creamy looking)and cold throw was awesome, but still some problems with the hot throw. You could only smell it if you were standing a few feet from it. Am I using a good wax? What about the wicks? I'm very frustrated b/c I've already spent well over $200 to get started and my candles aren't what I want them to be. I am looking to make strong hot throw candles. PLEASE HELP!!!

[Meridith]

It's frustrating I know, but you can get it. We've all been there. If you do a search you will find lots of information on what you can do to possibley improve your hot throw. Good luck.

[Fire and Ice]

Soy candles need to cure. set them aside for 3 to 5 days and then test. also, how well are to stirring in the F/O? You are eith using too much or you are not stirring well enough.

Fire:cool2:

[mczac99]

Thanks for the info. I burned the 1st batch after 24 hours, then again after 1 week and still not much of a hot throw. I stirred in the F/O for 2 minutes before pouring. Using 1 - 1 1/2 oz. PP, depending on how strong the F/O was. With the second batch, I burned after about 6 hours, I'll retest again later today (this is the 3rd day) and see if they're any better. So you don't think it has to do with the wick or the wax? Is that a good wax I'm using? Also, are there any F/O suppliers to stay away from? I bought some off of eBay and some from Bear Laboratories (both seem to be pretty strong IN the bottles), then I bought Yaley 1 oz. bottles that were HORRIBLE, the Apple Pie smelled like stale cinnamon and the Sugar Cookie...I'm not sure what it smells like, but definitely NOT what it's supposed to.

I'm not wanting to put much more money into it until I figure out what the problem is, but if I need to buy a different wax, wicks, F/O, etc., I'm definitely willing to do what it takes.

[mczac99]

Thanks for the advice!

[AngelaVA]

Thanks for the info. I burned the 1st batch after 24 hours, then again after 1 week and still not much of a hot throw. I stirred in the F/O for 2 minutes before pouring. Using 1 - 1 1/2 oz. PP, depending on how strong the F/O was. With the second batch, I burned after about 6 hours, I'll retest again later today (this is the 3rd day) and see if they're any better. So you don't think it has to do with the wick or the wax? Is that a good wax I'm using? Also, are there any F/O suppliers to stay away from? I bought some off of eBay and some from Bear Laboratories (both seem to be pretty strong IN the bottles), then I bought Yaley 1 oz. bottles that were HORRIBLE, the Apple Pie smelled like stale cinnamon and the Sugar Cookie...I'm not sure what it smells like, but definitely NOT what it's supposed to.

I'm not wanting to put much more money into it until I figure out what the problem is, but if I need to buy a different wax, wicks, F/O, etc., I'm definitely willing to do what it takes.

Here's my take: First, add Fo at a higher temp and then cool to slushy stage before pouring. Make sure that the FO is completely incorporated before pouring.

Make sure that you cure for about 5 days before test burning. Also, check your wicks. Make sure that you have the right size. An improper wick can affect your throw too.

Finally, I would get some high quality fragrance oils from a different supplier and try those. Soy is difficult to work with, so look for oils that have good reviews on here. There is a sticky at the top of the veggie forum with reviews. I've never ordered from Bear L., but I do know that buying off ebay can be risky and Yaley is junk for FOs. So, my advice would be to invest in a sampler pack of oils from a reputable supplier and try those. Some suppliers that come to mind are Millcreek, Daystar and Candlescience. And hang in there - it's difficult, but definitely not impossible to make a great candle

[topofmurrayhill]

I'm not wanting to put much more money into it until I figure out what the problem is, but if I need to buy a different wax, wicks, F/O, etc., I'm definitely willing to do what it takes.

I'd suggest try different FO. Many fragrance oils are basically incompatible with soy and just about useless. Try going to a mainstream supplier that tests in soy such as BCN, or one of the many suppliers that specializes in soy wax, or rummage around the Fragrance forum and look for specific oils that people mention having good results with in soy.

Most people add the fragrance oil at a higher temperature, then let the wax cool down and pour. Opinions vary and I don't think that's your main problem, but just thought I'd mention it.

Heh, I see Angela was already on the case. Alternatively, do what she says.

[mczac99]

Thank you sooo much. You are all great. I love how quickly you have all responded. I'll let you know how things go.

[wookie130]

I'm not familiar with that particular wax (I use Cargill C-3), but heating your wax up to 175-180 then adding FO will help. I stir and stir (and stir some more), then cool my wax down to about 130, then pour...while it's cooling in your pour pot, make sure you stir it every now and then, to make sure the FO doesn't sink to the bottom.

It would greatly help to know what size and type of container you're using, as it could be a wick problem too. Wicking largely determines scent throw.

If you're using 100% straight soy, then you must heat it to 175-180, add your FO, stir, stir, stir, remove from the heat source, and cool your wax until it becomes the consistency of a slushy or applesauce...usually around 100-110 degrees. Then you'll be ready to pour.

I would play with different FO's too...some work well in soy, and others truly do not. Some companies test their oils in soy specifically, to ensure that the oils will throw in veggie waxes...Millcreek and Snowtop are two examples. Personally, I only ever use 1 oz. of FO per lb. of soy...or 6%. Sometimes if we overload our wax with FO, it will seep out the top, or even "freeze" the scent...and then you won't get a good throw either.

[silkysoycreations]

My experience is limited with 402 because I didn't like the appearance issues (lots of frosting & then craters after wax remelted) but after 2wks cure time I noticed the best hot throw (w/ a CW wick a friend let me try). Cold throw was pretty good on this wax. I used Peak's oil on this wax & thought it did well. I think 402 has been replaced with 415 if I'm not mistaken & might be phased out??

[mystical_angel1219]

I'm just getting started making candles. I'm using LP 402 100% Natural Soy Wax, 100% cotton wicks, 1 - 1 1/2 oz. F/O per pound wax. I've been experimenting and most of them has a good cold throw, but when I burn them, you can't hardly smell them. In fact, I put one in my small bathroom from my 1st batch and shut the door for about 20 minutes. When I opened the door, you could just smell some sort of chemical smell (maybe from the wick?!?). Anyway, with that batch, I started out heating the wax to 160, then adding dyes and oils and pouring...I had trouble with them setting up good, they were frosty looking and had oils seeping out the top...so needless to say, that didn't turn out good. So, I decided to just heat 'til it was completely melted (around 140), added dyes, then let cool to around 100 and added F/O, then when starting to get slushy, I poured into jars. They looked great (set up quick and were smooth and creamy looking)and cold throw was awesome, but still some problems with the hot throw. You could only smell it if you were standing a few feet from it. Am I using a good wax? What about the wicks? I'm very frustrated b/c I've already spent well over $200 to get started and my candles aren't what I want them to be. I am looking to make strong hot throw candles. PLEASE HELP!!!

My suggestion to you is to get some quality FO before you make another candle.

Check out suppliers that sell soy wax- Kentucky Wax Supply, Millcreek, Bluegrass, Southern Sensations, etc. These suppliers actually test in their waxes, so most of their FO is compatible with soy wax.

What size/type of jar are you using and what size is the wick?

A quality candle system is made of many components. It's like cooking. If you use quality ingredients, the better your recipes taste. For an inexpensive starter kit that contains everything but the colorants, I would recommend Millcreek. The kit also contains detailed instructions and Kathy is very knowledgable about her products. You can email her with any questions, and she will be more than happy to help you. This would eliminate the guesswork in finding the best wicking as well, the wicks and containers are included in the kit.

http://www.mcsoywax.com/candlekits.htm

[mczac99]

Is there any "universal" wick that works good in soy and with any size containers? I'm using 8 oz. jelly jars and 16 oz. mason jars. I'm using the 100% cotton wicks. I am getting a great burn pool with them, but think maybe they are affecting my hot throw?!?!

[wookie130]

Is there any "universal" wick that works good in soy and with any size containers? I'm using 8 oz. jelly jars and 16 oz. mason jars. I'm using the 100% cotton wicks. I am getting a great burn pool with them, but think maybe they are affecting my hot throw?!?!

Unfortunately no. Wicking is one of the trickiest aspects of chandling...and soy can be even more of a challenge sometimes. I would suggest trying a different wick series altogether. I had great luck with my 8 oz. jj's using CD 12's, or you could play around with the LX series...there are alot of wick charts. The ECO wicks may be another one to try.

[Lightning Bug]

Cotton wicks usually give me a better throw than some of the other types but mushroom more. They come in different sizes and depending on the soy and the FO, you should get a good melt with a 44C, 51C or 60C in the jelly jar if it is the taller small mouthed type. We all wish for a perfect wax with the perfect wick! hth. Beth

[mczac99]

What is the "best" soy wax available, if there is such a thing?!?

Does anyone have a suggestion on what wick to try in the 16 oz. Mason jars?

[AngelaVA]

What is the "best" soy wax available, if there is such a thing?!?

Does anyone have a suggestion on what wick to try in the 16 oz. Mason jars?

There is no best soy wax. There are many waxes on the market and everyone has a different preference. I would do a search on here and take notes about what people like and dislike about each of the waxes you are researching. Then, buy some sample size bags and start testing to see what works for you.

I don't pour the 16 oz jars, so I can't really help you there

[geekrunner]

I've been playing with 402 for awhile now, and it acts alot like 464. I have used it straight, and noticed that anything above 6% FO load makes it ooze FO. You may try adding 2% Universal Soy Additive to it, or up to 3% Beeswax. That helps it out alot. Like others may have mentioned, try heating to 185, adding FO at 175, stir completely for about two minutes, then cool to 150 and pour in room temp jars. You could wait till about 100-110 to pour to get smooth tops, but I have resigned myself to pouring at 150, then poking an heat gunning the top smooth. Saves me alot of time waiting.

Cotton wicks burn pretty hot, but I have had good luck with LX wicks and Premier 700. I get more mushrooming with HTPs and CDs, but to a lesser degree.

I know it's frustrating, but learning occurs att the very edge of frustration. If you take good notes, and you find the combination that works, suddenly the light bulb above your head turns on and you shout out, "YES!!!"

geek

[angelwings1]

You might want to try Bittercreeks EZ Soy, I have been using this soy wax for 5 yrs now and have had great success.

[mczac99]

What temps do you use with the EZ Soy wax? I'm going to get on their website and see if they sell sample packs. Also, what size jars and what wicks are you using? Thanks.

[the wife]

iKNOW WHAT YOU MEAN I HAVE SPENT APPX 500 ON MY CANDLES THANK THE LORD I HAVE A UNDERSTANDING HUSBAND USED 402 100 PERCENT SOY/ADV 135 AND ONE CALLED SOY PRO ,IT IS ALWAYS SOMETHING THE WICK THE WAX NOW CANT GET THE SCENT TO THROW JUST ABOUT TO GIVE UP,BUT I DONT WANT ALL MY TEST TIME MONEY TO BE WASTED

[roxi4112000]

hang in there youll get it, I would try adding fo anywhere from 165-175 and then let cool until slightly slushy, which is a diff temp for every candle. maybe that will help:grin2:

[Deemoore]

Hi, I'm also new to this candle making business, I love it but its all a matter of getting the right stuff to make it work. I've been using C-3 nad not have any luck with my FO they all smell good cold but when lit they smell like chemicals so I know I need to check out some other company for their FO. I'm heating to 175 and adding Fo at 150, stiring, stiring then pouring about 140 and to tops come out pretty much smooth, sometimes I get sink holes. I must admit I just jump in and started making without doing this reseach that I'm doing now so it's like I'm starting all over again, but very happy that I found this site to help me out, thanks to everyone on this site.

Dee

[Candlewitch]

It's not the c-3 making anything smell like chemicals. :tiptoe:

[boggled]

Definately get yourselves some good quality fo samples. You will be pleasantly suprised. Better doen't have to always be more expensive. You can get some good deals when they run sales.