12oz Metro...GL 70/30...and wicking?

[ah-soy]

I'm trying to wick this bugger (3") diameter without double wicking. My first attempt is with an Eco 14 but that's not getting to the sides or catching up. Any suggestions appreciated...TIA

[topofmurrayhill]

Maybe try a few sizes smaller.

[mystical_angel1219]

What are your wax/fo/color percentages?

Do you have any other wicks than ECO? This might help in finding a better wicking solution for you.

[Henryk]

I tried ECO 8 and 10, neither worked for me.

I've tried two different paraffin soy blends and different sizes of 4 types of wicks (CD, ECO, LX, Hemp, Zinc, and even a size of RRD). Just am not totally happy with 3" diameters - there was always something that bothered me -either hangup, light soot, dancing flames, mushrooms too big, took too long to get to sides, jar too hot, blah blah blah. I'm just too picky. Big difference in wicking 2.5 and 3" diameters so if you don't get it right you may want to use the 7.5 ounce (2.5") instead of the 12 ounce. MUCH easier to wick IMO.

Congrats if you wick a 3" (without it getting too hot) and I'd love to hear your results! (What have you tried besides the 14 may I ask?)

[silkysoycreations]

So does the lx26 just get too hot for 3" diameter?

[Henryk]

Silk, here's the issues with the bigger LXs (the 24 and up - those that use the NTS2 treatment) in 3" with the parasoys I've tried. They never get the hangup, they burn down more than out even after many burns, and that burning down I see just compounds the hangup. If you try to power burn them instead, they start flickering and you get some soot. Thats why in the other thread (per suggestion of Shannon) I'm going to wick down on the LXs now. The hope is the wick/flame doesn't suck up so much fuel it won't tunnel down as much and stay more on the same level to give the sides time to melt down. I hope it does work, but I've tried other wicks where the ROC is less that the LXs I've used and they left the same type of hangup. For instance, the ECO 8 and 10 have lower ROC than the LX 24 - yet all three had the same issue for me - hangup, and if I let the LX go longer, I got soot. (I know the ECO and LXs are different types of wicks, but both are coreless by the same manufacturer - WEDO - so I assume they would use the same ROC-type test).

Be careful if you try to extrapolate from my or other folks results who aren't using C3 because you are using a different wax. It was easy for me to go from soy to CBA because everything was pretty much just one wick size down. With the parasoys it seems to be more involved than that to get a good balance - wish I was better at that.

[mystical_angel1219]

I was thinking more like an LX 20 in this jar.

I like the looks of these jars, but now EVERYONE is doing them. I think because of the depth and column shape, the wicking can be tricky on this container. In my testing, I reached the conculsion that once you get past the halfway mark in a burn~ the oxygen needed to allow this wicking system to burn correctly just doesn't seem to flow. If that makes any sense.

[Henryk]

See and I picked them out two years ago when I first started simply because they were straight sided! I'm such a trend setter!

Thanks Mystical, you aren't the first person to say that about this jar - I posted about it after Grumpy Girl mentioned it. http://www.candletech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27886 But when you said the above about the air flow did you mean the 7.5 or the 12 oz status?

Here's what I just don't get: Compared to a standard 8 oz. jelly jar which are ~2.5" inches in diameter (2 5/8 to be exact) that is just a hair bigger than the status. The jelly is even taller (3 3/4") compared to 3 1/8" of the status (without the "foot"). I know the Libbey catalogue says they are 3" in diameter but I just opened a new case of the Libbey 7.5 status just to double check and they ARE 2.5" in diameter - its the foot that is 3". Now the funny thing is SO many people do jelly jars - they even start out with them - and everyone says they get great burns with certain wicks. The 7.5 ounce status just isn't that much different from an 8 ounce jelly IMO. The height of the 12.25 ounce status is just 1/2" taller - but the diameter is 1/2" wider also - so I would presume the air flow is the same - yet I have a much harder time wicking the 3" with the same wax than the 2.5". So it just has to be that 1/2" diameter larger that is the problem - maybe not the air flow? JMO.

So in general, what type do you look for as I bought the 3" ones to get it to be a bit more "open" at the top. That so far isn't working at least in my recent testing. Can you give me an example of what would be an "easy" jar to wick? Meaning, what type has a better air flow, as I do agree with you. (I do get flickering later on in the burn - but then I had people saying they do to - with a lot jars and they assume its normal as well).

(Hope you don't think I'm being confrontational as I don't mean to be.)

[silkysoycreations]

Silk, here's the issues with the bigger LXs (the 24 and up - those that use the NTS2 treatment) in 3" with the parasoys I've tried. They never get the hangup, they burn down more than out even after many burns, and that burning down I see just compounds the hangup. If you try to power burn them instead, they start flickering and you get some soot. Thats why in the other thread (per suggestion of Shannon) I'm going to wick down on the LXs now. The hope is the wick/flame doesn't suck up so much fuel it won't tunnel down as much and stay more on the same level to give the sides time to melt down. I hope it does work, but I've tried other wicks where the ROC is less that the LXs I've used and they left the same type of hangup. For instance, the ECO 8 and 10 have lower ROC than the LX 24 - yet all three had the same issue for me - hangup, and if I let the LX go longer, I got soot. (I know the ECO and LXs are different types of wicks, but both are coreless by the same manufacturer - WEDO - so I assume they would use the same ROC-type test).

Be careful if you try to extrapolate from my or other folks results who aren't using C3 because you are using a different wax. It was easy for me to go from soy to CBA because everything was pretty much just one wick size down. With the parasoys it seems to be more involved than that to get a good balance - wish I was better at that.

I hope some day soon I'll understand what you just said...I'm going to bookmark and come back in a few weeks...we'll see then !

[ah-soy]

What are your wax/fo/color percentages?

Do you have any other wicks than ECO? This might help in finding a better wicking solution for you.

Sorry to have disappeared for so long. Went out for a yummy dinner at Firebirds!

I am using Greenleaf 70/30 (70% soy 30% para) with 6% FO per lb plus 1/4 tsp of UV and 12 drops of Lonestar coffee color liquid dye (not sure what that % is, I just added until I liked the color:grin2:

Right now I only have the ECO wicks as those were recommended by Greenleaf. I do have all sizes though and will be pulling the 14 out tonight and starting with the lowest ECO's double wicked and see how that goes size by size!

[ah-soy]

I tried ECO 8 and 10, neither worked for me.

I've tried two different paraffin soy blends and different sizes of 4 types of wicks (CD, ECO, LX, Hemp, Zinc, and even a size of RRD). Just am not totally happy with 3" diameters - there was always something that bothered me -either hangup, light soot, dancing flames, mushrooms too big, took too long to get to sides, jar too hot, blah blah blah. I'm just too picky. Big difference in wicking 2.5 and 3" diameters so if you don't get it right you may want to use the 7.5 ounce (2.5") instead of the 12 ounce. MUCH easier to wick IMO.

Congrats if you wick a 3" (without it getting too hot) and I'd love to hear your results! (What have you tried besides the 14 may I ask?)

I got my 8oz status successfully wicked so far (haven't finished all fragrances yet) with ECO 10's so just assumed I could go to a 14 for the larger...obviously assumed incorrectly:shocked2:

As I stated above, I'm going to try double wicking starting with the smallest ECO's and work my way up so will let you all know the results

[mystical_angel1219]

Strike a pose, you trendsetter.

I was talking about the 12 oz status jar. Which I threw to the wayside last year because every candlemaker was playing with them for production. Since they came out so affordable, everyone was buyin' and tryin'. So I kicked them to the curb, for good. I do like the real Mc Coy LIBBEY status jars, not the cheap knock offs. They seem to be much heavier, and the durability factor is off the charts as compared to the cheaper version, IMO.

The 12 oz status jar is a bitch to wick, especially if you are picky. Which I know you are- and so I am. The candle burns wonderfully, until you get to past halfway down. Then it flickers, torches and does all kinds of crazy things in my testing. I don't think it could be truly wicked to perfection, IMO. Even underwicked, overwicked, double wicked- what have you, I had nothing but issues once it got to the same dang place in the jar. I tried MANY different wicks, and sizes. I just couldn't get it to burn to my standards. Plus now that other chandlers are putting them out, I won't bother trying to perfect that jar anymore. But I do love the vibe jar... waaaaaaaaaaa!!

In my experience, the jars that seem to perform the best are the ones that are as wide at the top as the bottom, and less than 4.5 inches in depth. It can have curves, but very slight ones. Wider, more stout jars seem to work better for me. I love the sleek looks of some of these taller jars, but every single one of them burns horribly for me after it gets over the half way point.

I even went and bought some of those cheapo column jars, like you find in the grocery store. Same thing, once you get to a certain point, the wick starts acting up. No matter what wax I tried. Palm, soy, parasoy, straight paraffin, container blends, you name it. I am in the process of once again changing up my regular line. I really like the looks of the Anchor Hocking rectangles with pressed lids from EAC, but the cost combined with the shipping would make it virtually impossible for these to be used for my wholesale customers.

I was using elevation jars, and tins, but now I am in the process of changing. Since every elevation jar I have been buying seems to be different in some way. Either it's a bit shorter, or wider- or the tops don't fit. The ones I got from Fairway were always consistent. But the others from WSP and C&S are not the same. I can't interchange the lids, and the other source I have was cheapest of them all. But they are now very inconsistent in their inventory, so I am dropping this jar. If I had it my way, down the road I would like to have an exculsive container of some sort. Like a colored glass, with some wild stone or marble lid. Hey, you have to dream big, right?

I didn't think you were being confrontational in the least.

I always enjoy your experiments and how precise you are in your testing.

See and I picked them out two years ago when I first started simply because they were straight sided! I'm such a trend setter!

Thanks Mystical, you aren't the first person to say that about this jar - I posted about it after Grumpy Girl mentioned it. http://www.candletech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27886 But when you said the above about the air flow did you mean the 7.5 or the 12 oz status?

Here's what I just don't get: Compared to a standard 8 oz. jelly jar which are ~2.5" inches in diameter (2 5/8 to be exact) that is just a hair bigger than the status. The jelly is even taller (3 3/4") compared to 3 1/8" of the status (without the "foot"). I know the Libbey catalogue says they are 3" in diameter but I just opened a new case of the Libbey 7.5 status just to double check and they ARE 2.5" in diameter - its the foot that is 3". Now the funny thing is SO many people do jelly jars - they even start out with them - and everyone says they get great burns with certain wicks. The 7.5 ounce status just isn't that much different from an 8 ounce jelly IMO. The height of the 12.25 ounce status is just 1/2" taller - but the diameter is 1/2" wider also - so I would presume the air flow is the same - yet I have a much harder time wicking the 3" with the same wax than the 2.5". So it just has to be that 1/2" diameter larger that is the problem - maybe not the air flow? JMO.

So in general, what type do you look for as I bought the 3" ones to get it to be a bit more "open" at the top. That so far isn't working at least in my recent testing. Can you give me an example of what would be an "easy" jar to wick? Meaning, what type has a better air flow, as I do agree with you. (I do get flickering later on in the burn - but then I had people saying they do to - with a lot jars and they assume its normal as well).

(Hope you don't think I'm being confrontational as I don't mean to be.)

[Henryk]

I still really like the 12 ounce status. I just stick with the Libbey for anything. The imported is thin - and IIRR many times they have seams. I have some paraffin on order - but you broke my dreams with that now! I'm just glad its not me and that even a pro had issues with them (two that I know of know). EAC is like jar heaven - they have the Anchor Hocking ones too - maybe because Libbey owns AH. Anyway, I'm still going to give these jars a shot. I came close with Joy and zinc wicks in the 12 ounce - had a fairly steady flame, even down into the jar, no more mushroom than usual, just had a thick film on the sides. Anyway I've always had good luck with the 7.5 so I can always go back to them - but I've used them for almost 2 years now and rarely ventured outside of them so was looking for something new.

As you mentioned tins, I recently poured some 4 ounce tins and stuck HTPs in them on the recommendation of someone on the GL board - and they are burning just perfect. I'm thinking of getting some 6 ounce gold ones and using them. I thought I'd miss the glass - but I'm really not. The only thing that concerns me is how hot I know they must get on the bottom - I wonder if candle makers can put something on the bottom of them - or just tell people to make sure they put them on a coaster or something.

Anyway, boy did you hit the nail on the head when you described the 12 ounce status. Thanks for giving me your opinions on jars that work best. Oh, I did see those AH jars you mentioned in your post. They are indeed very classy and heavy - I really wanted to get some (and about 8 or 9 other types) - but the square scared me off.

Thanks again.

[mystical_angel1219]

I still really like the 12 ounce status. I just stick with the Libbey for anything. The imported is thin - and IIRR many times they have seams. I have some paraffin on order - but you broke my dreams with that now! I'm just glad its not me and that even a pro had issues with them (two that I know of know). EAC is like jar heaven - they have the Anchor Hocking ones too - maybe because Libbey owns AH. Anyway, I'm still going to give these jars a shot. I came close with Joy and zinc wicks in the 12 ounce - had a fairly steady flame, even down into the jar, no more mushroom than usual, just had a thick film on the sides. Anyway I've always had good luck with the 7.5 so I can always go back to them - but I've used them for almost 2 years now and rarely ventured outside of them so was looking for something new.

Oh don't give up on these, Henry! :smiley2:

This is a classy, elegant jar. I do love the looks of it. But I can only get the 7.5 oz. size wicked correctly. I gave up on them after I couldn't get the larger one done right. Plus, everyone else was doing them. I bet you could nail this jar with some Joy wax and paraffin mixed. You are the KING of testing!!

As you mentioned tins, I recently poured some 4 ounce tins and stuck HTPs in them on the recommendation of someone on the GL board - and they are burning just perfect. I'm thinking of getting some 6 ounce gold ones and using them. I thought I'd miss the glass - but I'm really not. The only thing that concerns me is how hot I know they must get on the bottom - I wonder if candle makers can put something on the bottom of them - or just tell people to make sure they put them on a coaster or something.

I just was reading a few days back on Candlescience about the temperature that is acceptable for a container to be while burning. Which is 175' F. I am going to have to go thru my containers and check this.

Especially those pesky tins.

Anyway, boy did you hit the nail on the head when you described the 12 ounce status. Thanks for giving me your opinions on jars that work best. Oh, I did see those AH jars you mentioned in your post. They are indeed very classy and heavy - I really wanted to get some (and about 8 or 9 other types) - but the square scared me off.

EAC has some awesome jars. I always check their site. I know that those rectangles would be challenging. But I love challenge, and the looks of those jars and about 20 others... LOL!!

[ah-soy]

I still really like the 12 ounce status. I just stick with the Libbey for anything. The imported is thin - and IIRR many times they have seams. I have some paraffin on order - but you broke my dreams with that now! I'm just glad its not me and that even a pro had issues with them (two that I know of know). EAC is like jar heaven - they have the Anchor Hocking ones too - maybe because Libbey owns AH. Anyway, I'm still going to give these jars a shot. I came close with Joy and zinc wicks in the 12 ounce - had a fairly steady flame, even down into the jar, no more mushroom than usual, just had a thick film on the sides. Anyway I've always had good luck with the 7.5 so I can always go back to them - but I've used them for almost 2 years now and rarely ventured outside of them so was looking for something new.

As you mentioned tins, I recently poured some 4 ounce tins and stuck HTPs in them on the recommendation of someone on the GL board - and they are burning just perfect. I'm thinking of getting some 6 ounce gold ones and using them. I thought I'd miss the glass - but I'm really not. The only thing that concerns me is how hot I know they must get on the bottom - I wonder if candle makers can put something on the bottom of them - or just tell people to make sure they put them on a coaster or something.

Anyway, boy did you hit the nail on the head when you described the 12 ounce status. Thanks for giving me your opinions on jars that work best. Oh, I did see those AH jars you mentioned in your post. They are indeed very classy and heavy - I really wanted to get some (and about 8 or 9 other types) - but the square scared me off.

Thanks again.

I talked with the folks at Fairway Glass last week and they have a 12 oz status that will launch soon. I have some of their other jars and they are nice, not the thin imports.

[Ollivander]

I got my 8oz status successfully wicked so far (haven't finished all fragrances yet) with ECO 10's so just assumed I could go to a 14 for the larger...obviously assumed incorrectly:shocked2:

As I stated above, I'm going to try double wicking starting with the smallest ECO's and work my way up so will let you all know the results

The 8 oz status jars are 2.5 inches wide like the 8 oz jj correct? I am currently using an eco 6 sometimes a 4 in most of my jj with the greenleaf 70/30. I get very slight bit of wax left on the sides very thin and not all over. So my question is that does your jar get hot with a 10 in it? I would love to go up a wick size but I think it might be to much.

[Crowded House]

The Libbey status are 3" across, unless my tape is wrong.

[Henryk]

The 7.5 ounce status are 2.5" in diameter. The 12.25 ounce are 3". The ECO 10 did NOT work in the 3" status - there was too much hangup for me. I can't remember specifically, but many of my tester jars were pretty hot - and that was the wierd thing - the jars were hot, but I STILL had this hangup with the 3" jars - totally the opposite of what you would think.

I really can't recommend an ECO size for the 2.5" size because I only tested LXs in them - it wasn't until the 3" size that I started trying other wick types. Sorry.

[ah-soy]

The 8 oz status jars are 2.5 inches wide like the 8 oz jj correct? I am currently using an eco 6 sometimes a 4 in most of my jj with the greenleaf 70/30. I get very slight bit of wax left on the sides very thin and not all over. So my question is that does your jar get hot with a 10 in it? I would love to go up a wick size but I think it might be to much.

My 8oz status are 2.5 and I'm looking for my notes on how hot the jar got. I'm going to burn one today that's halfway down the jar and check out the temp and I'll report back in a few hours.

Now for my further 12oz test...tried two eco 4's as I had nothing smaller that was tall enough. I knew that was probably too high and boy was I right, my melt pool was full and 1" deep within an 1 1/2 hours. Pulled those out, heat gunned the top and decided to try one 10 as Top suggested to go down a size or two from the 14. Got a nice melt pool in 3 hours BUT horrible sooting which I didn't get with the larger sizes...go figure. I'm going to order some CD and LX today sample packs today and see how those do.

[Grumpy Girl]

The 12.5 oz. Libbey jars are the work of the Devil, honestly. I got one FO wicked almost perfectly with a 51z but that was it. I got a flame dance from mid point on this jar to the bottom on every single FO I tried. I gave up. I couldn't get it perfect and it just wasn't acceptable. I did manage to get the 7.5 oz. Libbey jar wicked with a HTP 93 and my own 70/30 mix. Still a bit of dancing mid point, but nothing like the flame dance of the 12.5 oz. jar.

It was a shame too, these were local for me.

I will pour the 7.5 oz jars on occasion, but rare ones. Let us know how your testing goes, I'm curious if anyone can wick these perfectly. We should have a contest to see if it's possible to perfectly wick the 12.5 oz. Libbey's.

Maybe I'm just too picky...

[Henryk]

We should have a contest to see if it's possible to perfectly wick the 12.5 oz. Libbey's.

Eh ... Top will just synthesize a new four-dimensional wick based on some silicone life form and win anyway.

[topofmurrayhill]

I'm against life form testing.

[Zamera]

Achtung!!

[topofmurrayhill]

Achtung!!

Gesundheit.