my site

[bella soy]

lets just say I've learned my lesson. Next time I want an opinion of something or have a question or want to share a pic ill pm people I feel comfortable with.

[MommaD]

I think that would be your best strategy. You obviously only wanted people who would boost you, and that isn't always going to happen. maybe you would be better off next time to PM the people that you want to read it.

You know, though, this is the real world, and you aren't always going to come across the people that you want, and the reaction that you want. You have to learn to debate maturely, effectively, and without mudslinging, which is what you are doing. Are you going to go off on potential customers like that? If so, don't expect to grow large.

[Kimberly]

Bella...I think the site is very nice and one can easily navigate it. Good job on that!

However, I think you are a tad bit defensive. You asked for opinions. Scented and a few others stated theirs and you didnt like it. Think about it, if someone hadnt called you on it, you would have most of your Internet customers believing that they were buying 100% Soy Candles...but you arent selling 100% Soy.

I think the way you worded it to say Soy Blend is the way to go.

I am not trying to Stir the Pot, just trying to get you to process the feedback you are getting a little diffrent.

I am a parrafin user and I do not believe the whole Soy thing. My partner and I call it THE SOY LIE...lol I feel that if you research and test you can make a very clean burning candle no matter what wax you choose.

Again, nice site. Wanna do mine?...lol I am just too freakin lazy to do it!

[Meridith]

Geesh!!! Can someone please tell my why people ask for opinions and feedback and then get in a snit when they get what they ask for? Perhaps when opinions and feedback are asked for, the one asking the question needs to preface it, "And I only want to hear good/positive remarks." It's better to hear all feedback(good and bad) here, in this forum, then to put yourself up to the opinions and first impressions of the customer. A customer lost is alot worse than being told things that we might not prefer to hear and being told it from our peers that perhaps have some flipping clue in their heads as to what they are talking about. That's just my opinion.

[SliverOfWax]

my site does not suggest that my candles are 100% soy.

Tsk tsk tsk, very, very misleading. Were I the public and saw your banner PURE CLEAN SOY, I would think your candles were, hum, let me think, oh, yes, PURE SOY.

To those of us who know better, PURE SOY and SOY BLEND are very much two different things.

[SliverOfWax]

You might consider, too, changing your name here to BellaSoyBlend. Even your name is a lie.

[Ring of Fire]

i wrote down your errors that you caught, thanks so much, never was good with grammer...lol

Yes i am doing it all myself. its hard but lots of fun. ive always been into design, i love it.

The understatement of the year.

Why would you ask for opinions and then be mad because everyone didn't jump up and down saying how nice it is. So sick of this crap with soy that people post on their sites. Wish I could drop kick at least one of them.

[hawaiiansun]

Thats news to me. I guess all the Vegetarians, the people that use Aveeno, the farmers that grow the damn crop, etc. etc. etc. are all in danger of cancer.???

I dont know what "proof " you all want me to present to you to make you happy. I did my research and I went to Gov't sites and read studies conducted by professors or reputable sources etc. What else do you want? You want me to go out and pay a scientist 1 million to conduct an experiment just so I have "proof" thats bull! When you read a magazine and its says "studies show blah blah blah that this percent of people do this, or this percent of whatever" you believe it dont you? Why? because you read that who conducted the study/experiment and believe that It came from a reputable source so why wouldnt be true? It the same thing with looking up benefts of Soy.

For those of you that HELPED me and gave me suggestions, I really appreciate it. For those of you that do nothing but BASH my posts and dont answer my questions w/o a smart a** attitude, dont ever respond to my posts again because i dont need that crap from a board thats "suppose to be nice"[/quote]

:whistle:

Is that nice enough??

[hawaiiansun]

point taken. i just felt like she was trying to start a battle that we all no can never be won. lets face it no matter what "facts" or "proof" i showed her we still would have argued. its a lost cause. Soy and paraffin users will never agee on certain publications out there or tests that have been conducted about the two waxes. i enjoy constructive critisism and i knew putting that site on this site was going to cause some sort or a ruckus because thats what this forum has turned into. all is well though i will continue to edit my site to my liking and i wont be posting that much anymore.

Scented start a battle??? OMG scented you need to stay away from me and Annie :laugh2:

In two + years I've never seen Scented "start a battle" she's done nothing but help. So she called you on your "misinformation" no need to get your panties in bunches.

[bella soy]

I think that would be your best strategy. You obviously only wanted people who would boost you, and that isn't always going to happen. maybe you would be better off next time to PM the people that you want to read it.

You know, though, this is the real world, and you aren't always going to come across the people that you want, and the reaction that you want. You have to learn to debate maturely, effectively, and without mudslinging, which is what you are doing. Are you going to go off on potential customers like that? If so, don't expect to grow large.

i did not post that site to get nothing but praise. Im not a dumb ass. I clearly stated that i wanted opinions / people to point out mistakes that maybe i missed. scented did not give either. she simply wanted me to proove where my information came from, like I was lying. That was not the point of the thread. she has been on this site way longer than me and im sure that she has seen lots of arguments about par/soy and differences/benfits and knows that the arguments get know where and never will, so why even bring it up???

if you aske me, it was to stir an argument

[MommaD]

i did not post that site to get nothing but praise. Im not a dumb ass. I clearly stated that i wanted opinions / people to point out mistakes that maybe i missed. scented did not give either. she simply wanted me to proove where my information came from, like I was lying. That was not the point of the thread. she has been on this site way longer than me and im sure that she has seen lots of arguments about par/soy and differences/benfits and knows that the arguments get know where and never will, so why even bring it up???

if you aske me, it was to stir an argument

You asked for opinions, she gave it. THAT WAS the point of the thread. Did she anywhere state that you were lying? I don't recall that she did. She brought it up because you asked for opinions, and she gave it. You know, there's lots of things that COULD happen, and this site could help you avoid that. What if someone bought one of your candles, thinking it was pure soy, because they are allergic to paraffin (totally imaginary, but hey, weird things happen) Would you prefer to get sued? What if the paraffin makers decide to sue you for libel, because you are posting things on your site that could harm their business, like the carcinogen thing? (again, hypothetical, but things can happen)

You just have to be careful. You have to be professional. If you feel that she was calling you a liar, it is SO much more professional to either ignore her, or to present facts, whatever. Name calling and such does not present an image that you want. Like I said before, are you going to jump down a potential customers throat like that? Because BELIEVE me, they will present you with the same questions, and responses.

[cindym]

Truth in advertising, really is the only problem I see here. Scented is pretty up front and has a good grasp of the business in general. I use a veggie parrafin blend, what is in the blend, I don't know, I can't get total agreement from the manufactuer or the sellers of the wax. So when my customers ask I tell them just that. A 70/30 blend is not 100% soy, safety or no, if I buy a soy candle, I want 100 % soy, because I believe that is a better product for me. Whether the truth be something else, if I believe soy is better then that is what I want. As a consumer out there in the real world with no real knowledge of candle making, I buy the line. If I can wash it with soap and water, in my mind it feel it is less dangerous. But what about the fragrances, are they natural, are you using natural colorants. I believe 100 % in my product , I think it is a great product and would not sell it if I didn't. I have soaps I could call 100 % natural but I don't because why go there. Most people don't care whether they are getting soy or not, it is somewhat passe at this point. I ask my wholesalers all the time , do you want me to add soy candles to my line, it is always a resounding NO. Becuase what I provide them with sells. I think if you look at the big picture here, and at what people are really saying you will see that it is all in an effort to be helpful.

[Sweet68cam]

Ok I was going to stay out of this cause I dont like to post much on these kinds of threads, I just wanted to say that I have made both types of candles and they both have their benefits and their flaws, personally I do not believe that there is a "best" wax to use weather it be soy or paraffin, fact is people have used paraffin FOREVER and if the claims were true about the dangers of paraffin dont you think we would see more headlines that state..." Another human lost their life today for buring a paraffin candle":rolleyes2 Funny how paraffin wax was not an issue until they came out with soy now they are dangerous....whatever. The fact is soy wax does not grow on a tree it is refined also, and it is a fact that ANY thing that has a flame puts off some sort of emmision into the air, not just paraffin candles, soy does too and another fact that I found out in my research between the two wax's is that soy does soot, its just a white smoke and you cant see it as to where paraffin is black, dont know the exact fact on that but if you look closely when burning your candle you can see it, I have seen it so that part is a fact. I do honestly believe that some of the soy makers use all the ploys they can to sell the candles. And this is NOT coming from a person who makes paraffin, I am currently using soy myself and am in the middle of switching back so my opinion is not one sided on this issue. But because I dont think there is anything wrong with paraffin I dont even have an About Soy or a Why soy section on my site. I just think that its wrong to promote your candles as a "healthier" candle or a 100% soy candle once you add fo its not 100% anymore, also there are additives put into soy when its refined that take away that 100% factor too I believe. Lets face it if soy did not exist everyone would be making the paraffin candles and selling the crap out of them and not trying to bash them. Way I see it is...hummmmmm paraffin candles have been around for hundreds of years and they are not going anywhere. This whole soy/paraffin thing is getting old.:rolleyes2

[VerticallyEnhanced]

Scented is pretty up front and has a good grasp of the business in general.

I wish you would take that and read it over and over. I really don't think Scented was set out to bash anyone. I don't know...I guess I just take what I see on the computer with a grain of salt and don't let much get to me. I don't know Scented very well (outside of giving her description to the cops in case she takes my trailer) but I truly believe she was giving constructive criticism. She knows her stuff and has been at this a while longer than you. She called you on something that you may very well have to back up in person some day. I would much rather have someone here help me understand that some of my facts might not be right than look foolish in front of someone in my shop/booth someday who knows something about candles and calls me on it. Just remember, you cannot gauge body language and intent on a screen. Had she been standing in front of you smiling and saying "Okay...come on, give me the facts" you would not have felt bashed.

I don't know, maybe I am just to "green" around here, but I would like to think she was really trying to challenge you to be a better candle maker. I look back to when I was first starting out and really thought I knew it all. HA! Not even. Heck, not even today years later. So just step back and view posts with the sole intent of someone truly trying to help you, not attack you.

[HeavenScentU]

I sell both paraffin and soy candles and did lots of research before I started making them. This particular website offers lots of information on the facts relating to candles.

http://www.candles.org/about_faq.html

[CraftyChris]

Thats news to me. I guess all the Vegetarians, the people that use Aveeno, the farmers that grow the damn crop, etc. etc. etc. are all in danger of cancer.???

I dont know what "proof " you all want me to present to you to make you happy. I did my research and I went to Gov't sites and read studies conducted by professors or reputable sources etc. What else do you want? You want me to go out and pay a scientist 1 million to conduct an experiment just so I have "proof" thats bull! When you read a magazine and its says "studies show blah blah blah that this percent of people do this, or this percent of whatever" you believe it dont you? Why? because you read that who conducted the study/experiment and believe that It came from a reputable source so why wouldnt be true? It the same thing with looking up benefts of Soy.

For those of you that HELPED me and gave me suggestions, I really appreciate it. For those of you that do nothing but BASH my posts and dont answer my questions w/o a smart a** attitude, dont ever respond to my posts again because i dont need that crap from a board thats "suppose to be nice"

So you feel it's okay to bash us (paraffin candle makers) and when we question you about it-your so called facts-it's our falt? We are not saying "great job-...blah blah blah--so we are the bad guys?? You asked our opinions-but it's not the one you wanted so your upset?

quote The Majority of candles are made of paraffin wax which is a petroleum based product made of refined gasoline. Carcinogens are released into the air when burning these types of candles which is the same as second hand smoke. Burning paraffin is similar to burning gas from your car. This is a major health concern as well as an environmental concern.

Soy candles reduce our dependency from crude oil

Don't post this on your site without proof. Let me see your sources. And are you adding fragrance? Then it's no longer 100% soy--oh ya, your not using just soy--my bad. Double check the refining process of crude oil.

I don't bash soy candle makers-in fact I don't bash ANY CANDLEMAKERS!! Make your product superior-and it will stand alone. Your site looks great, and so do your candles-that should sell them alone. I've got 10 years on this--want business advice--don't ever bash--it just makes you and your product look bad.

[roxi4112000]

ok guys lets calm down and give the girl a break people make mistakes:undecided look everyone has a diff taste and opinion. im not a para basher however I beliveis it true that their are carcinogens in paraffin yes BUT there is not enough to be harmful to a person, does soy still have soot yes....and on and on and on. I love soy but I have friends that love paraffin, and others who dont care as long as there is a scent. for one im glad that all of us have a diff opinion because if we all agreed all candles would be the same. I know what I believe and thats enough for me, and it should be for all of you. You know what you think is important for your candles and your business and lets not forget its a BUSINESS which makes it competitive. This board is been very helpful to me and Ive made a mistake or 5 or 6, and I learned. Bella is new at this and I think shes doing well. Trying to start a business is hard and stressful and weve ALL made mistakes. I just wish everyone could forgive and forget-k-

:awww: to everyone, paralovers and soylovers alike!

[candlebug]

"Reduce the dependency on crude oil". It takes 5 times more petroleum to power the machines to produce 1 pound of soy wax than it does 1 pound of paraffin.

This is not what I would see as reducing the dependency of crude oil.

[Cetacea]

i did not post that site to get nothing but praise. Im not a dumb ass. I clearly stated that i wanted opinions / people to point out mistakes that maybe i missed. scented did not give either. she simply wanted me to proove where my information came from, like I was lying. That was not the point of the thread. she has been on this site way longer than me and im sure that she has seen lots of arguments about par/soy and differences/benfits and knows that the arguments get know where and never will, so why even bring it up???

if you aske me, it was to stir an argument

Sorry I don't agree.

You need to read this report from the EPA: http://www.epa.gov/ord/NRMRL/Publications/600R-01-001%20Chapter%204.pdf

In that report are the ACTUAL, quanitifiable numbers for the best case and worst case senario for paraffin and beeswax candles. Pay particular attention to page 10 when it talks about SOOT and how it is formed. Its 18 pages but a well informed read.

This is also a good link for how different waxes are produced: http://www.geocities.com/get_scent/waxsection.htm

I do like your site. Its easy to navigate and your candles are nice. I'm just giving you some more information for it.

HTH

[Cetacea]

"Reduce the dependency on crude oil". It takes 5 times more petroleum to power the machines to produce 1 pound of soy wax than it does 1 pound of paraffin.

This is not what I would see as reducing the dependency of crude oil.

Honestly, I haven't figured out HOW candles do this! You still use energy to make them (most likely that energy is produced by the burning of fossil fuels). I bet if you total up the amount of crude oil used to actually make the wax and produce a candle from that wax it won't amount to a hill of beans even at mass production estimates.

Also, don't forget that paraffin wax is NOT just precipitated for candle wax, there are a TON of uses for it that soy wax just can not do (at this time). Almost everything we buy or package has a paraffin wax coating. Candle wax is simply a cash cow when compared to the other uses that it has.

If we really want to reduce our dependancy on crude oil then we need to start to carpool, use public transportation, build better and more efficient engines and start transporting the bulk of goods on trains rather than semi trucks (of course investing in the magnetic monorail first). And the BIGGIE: STOP USING PLASTIC GROCERY BAGS. Don't forget that plastic, that wonderful stuff we depend on, is made from petroleum. And plastic bags are NOT EASILY RECYCLABLE...which is why they are sent BACK to the bag maker and why you can not put them outside with your other plastic items.

Its amazing how much we use petroleum in our daily lives isn't it? So instead of dissing crude oil and tossing in that negative attitude, we might want to think differently and start PROTECTING it by being responsible instead of just using it like there is no end and looking for another venue to exploit.

Ok off my soapbox.

[DatCandleMaker]

Honestly, I haven't figured out HOW candles do this! You still use energy to make them (most likely that energy is produced by the burning of fossil fuels). I bet if you total up the amount of crude oil used to actually make the wax and produce a candle from that wax it won't amount to a hill of beans even at mass production estimates.

Also, don't forget that paraffin wax is NOT just precipitated for candle wax, there are a TON of uses for it that soy wax just can not do (at this time). Almost everything we buy or package has a paraffin wax coating. Candle wax is simply a cash cow when compared to the other uses that it has.

If we really want to reduce our dependancy on crude oil then we need to start to carpool, use public transportation, build better and more efficient engines and start transporting the bulk of goods on trains rather than semi trucks (of course investing in the magnetic monorail first). And the BIGGIE: STOP USING PLASTIC GROCERY BAGS. Don't forget that plastic, that wonderful stuff we depend on, is made from petroleum. And plastic bags are NOT EASILY RECYCLABLE...which is why they are sent BACK to the bag maker and why you can not put them outside with your other plastic items.

Its amazing how much we use petroleum in our daily lives isn't it? So instead of dissing crude oil and tossing in that negative attitude, we might want to think differently and start PROTECTING it by being responsible instead of just using it like there is no end and looking for another venue to exploit.

Ok off my soapbox.

Cet, personally I love it when you get ON your soap box. An intellectual argument is a rare thing!

Thanks for the links, they are great

Dat.

[bella soy]

I am by no means trying to false advertise. I changed a fw things on my site to reflect the suggestions that were given to me. Im having an issue comming up with ways to describe soy candles w/o coming across untrue if you will. If I say "soy candles are cleaner, burn colder and produce less soot"

someone will find fault in that statement. so how am I suppose to describe my product?

[Scent Cellar]

You can just say "My soy blend candles burn clean ... try them & you will like them" I wouldn't make any statements other than that.

[lpoitras]

I am by no means trying to false advertise. I changed a fw things on my site to reflect the suggestions that were given to me. Im having an issue comming up with ways to describe soy candles w/o coming across untrue if you will. If I say "soy candles are cleaner, burn colder and produce less soot"

someone will find fault in that statement. so how am I suppose to describe my product?

i think that's perfect. If you do,then USE it. I get the feeling someone on here will always have an opinion on it. It's your business.

[bella soy]

After thinking about it all night, I think im having an issue deermining whats the truth and whats not when I do my research. Some of you say that you dont believe gov't sites and I cant say I disagree with you. But how do you desipher whats true or not when researching.:undecided Are there a few things to look out for? Are there certain organizations that I shoule be looking up? I put that stuff of my site because after searching I was led to believe that it was true. If I didnt believe it, I sure as heck would not have put it on there.

I dont want to use this as a excuse but im only 23, so I dont have to knowledge or experiance you all have with researching, deterimining right from wrong etc. And to top it all off, Im quite nieve (sp?) I will believe just about anything.