OK GUYS ......What's the BIG SECRET ????

[JimC]

All of you who claim to get a good hot scent throw are keeping your secret away from the rest of us. WHAT IS IT ????? Do you use some sort of magic potion that you aren't telling us about? Do you wave your stirring wand over your melting pot and mumble some sort of chant? OR do you spray air freshner in the room and claim that the smell comes from your candle? Well??

Ok, deep down inside I really know that the problem is that I am not doing something right. BUT, what is it?

I have tried 7 different types of wax including 4630, 6006, 4786, J223, two types of soy and a soy/parafin blend. I am currently using J223. I do not believe the problem to be wax.

I am using a 3" container and I get a full 3/8th inch melt pool in under 4 hours. I don't believe the problem to be lack of ample melt pool. I also tried a candle warmer (all melt pool).

I have tried six different types of wicks. With J223 I am using HTP wicks which burn a litle hotter than some of the others. So. I don't believe the problem is the wick.

Tried with and without dye. Nope

I have tried 80 plus FO samples from 9 different suppliers. I know that some of the FO's were probably of low quality or out of date. I DID get a good strong throw from about 7 of them. The last two batches were from two of the most popular suppliers. One of them was PEAKS. I wonder if the HOT weather has anything to do with it. Could the 2 to 7 days ride in a hot UPS truck be the cause of my problem?

After pouring I wait 3 to 30 days to burn them. It can't be cure time.

It may be the way that I add FO to the wax. With J223 I heat the wax to 180 to 185 degrees in a presto pot. I then pour the measured amount of hot wax into a heated pour pot and place the pour pot into another presto pot that I use as a double boiler to maintain specific temperature. I have added the FO at 180, 170 and 160 degrees. I tried adding the FO first and last. I stir for 3 minutes. Do you stir gently or viggerously? With J223 I pour at 145 to 150 degrees (with washed and heated containers I get no wet spots).

I've tried 3% to 10% FO loads (mostly 6 and 8 %).

You might say that the problem is 'candle nose'. HOWEVER, other people have said the same thing (no or little scent throw).

I tried burning in a big room and a little room. Nope, same problem.

I am retired and I thought that this candle thing would be a good hobby and a nice way to earn a little extra spending money. For the past two and a half months I have spent a part of every day involved in this in one way or another. At this rate I will be in the 'old foggy' home tapping out Lawrence Welk tunes on my bed pan before I learn The Secret.

SO GUYS!!!....Come clean, fess up, and spill the beans.

WHAT'S THE BIG SECRET???????

[DanaE]

I'm sorry Jim, I can't tell you what the particular problem might be. I'm currently using J50 with 1/8th teaspoon of vybar and 1 tablespoon of Crisco per lb, adding 1 to 1-1/2 ounces of FO per lb of wax, heat to 180, add FO immediately, cool to 160 and pour. I can burn the candle the next day and get a wonderful scent throw.

I can say that sometimes I use a wick that is giving a perfect melt pool with no black smoke and can't seem to smell the candle. It seems that the melt pool simply isn't hot enough. If I wick up, I might get a full melt pool faster and the melt pool may be a little deep, but that's fine with me because I get a significantly better hot scent throw. (example - right now I'm testing 2 different wicks in a 16 oz apoth. jar - 2 44-28Z and 2 low smoke 23 zinc wicks. The 44-28 is giving the perfect melt pool, taking the right amount of time to get a full melt pool, isn't getting too deep, no black smoke, etc. but the scent throw isn't very strong. The other jar wicked with the 2 low smoke 23's is kicking butt! It's the same batch of wax, but the low smoke wick is hotter, the melt pool is deeper and I'm getting a full melt pool quicker than what is considered the norm.

Are you buying your FO samples from the Classifieds? Maybe you're getting old samples or something? Try buying a couple of scents like Fresh Linen and testing them. I've found those scents to be very strong and will throw at much smaller percentages.

Other than that, all I can say is increase your FO load to whatever the max amount your wax will hold, wick up one size and see what happens.

DanaE

[RobinInOR]

...Do you wave your stirring wand over your melting pot and mumble some sort of chant? ....

OK, I'll fess up, you found my secret

You sound like you're doing everything "right" - frustrating isn't it. In your description you've covered most of what I'd check - temperatures, wax, candle nose, curing, amount of FO, other peoples opinion ...

Just wanted to commiserate with you - personally when I tried J223 I couldn't get a throw and went on to another wax, but lots of people use J223 with great success.

Did you try putting your tongue in your left cheek and stand on your right leg?

[gottabt]

I really feel for you and I think that your patience should be commended. I use j223 and I will tell you that there are about 1/2 of the fo's I tried when I started did not throw. I will say that my room and what is going on in it has something to do with it. I have a large room with ceiling fans in each end. I test in the middle and the ceiling fans do not bother the candle as long as the speed on both is on low. I also closed the vents in those two rooms. For me the room temp must be 76-78 degrees. My test is always after 2 hours - I go outside and breathe deeply for about 5 minutes then come back in to see if I smell it. I repeat at 4 hours and then blow it out to check meltpool and soot. If I stay in the room with the candle - I rarely smell it - I think that my nose is fried. Even with waiting for the candle to cure - I have constant candle nose. I do not know if I helped or not but hang in there and I am sure that you will find some good scents.

[deputy6512]

Well, I also use J223 and have good hot throw. Now, thats not to say that with some scents I get a poor throw, but most are great. I add FO last at 1oz per lb with most scents (little more for the lighter scents, little less for the stronger ones). I don't add anything to my wax except dye, fo, and UV. Wish I could be of more help! I also use Peaks almost exclusively (only buy scents they don't carry from other suppliers).

[Terrie]

Wow, Jim, it sounds like you have done all of your homework. You already know the importance of testing and changing variables.

The only advice I can give you is to make sure you are using quality FO's, and to keep ordering and testing slabs of wax until you find the one that works for you. I know how frustrating it is, cause I couldn't tell you how many waxes I went through before I found the one I use now.

Not all FO's are created equal, either. You gotta pick through those suppliers to find the ones that have quality products. There are only about 3 MAYBE 4 suppliers I will order FO's from. I've learned my lesson the hard way.

Good luck, and don't give up. It will be well worth it when you find what you are looking for.

[topofmurrayhill]

I am retired and I thought that this candle thing would be a good hobby and a nice way to earn a little extra spending money. For the past two and a half months I have spent a part of every day involved in this in one way or another. At this rate I will be in the 'old foggy' home tapping out Lawrence Welk tunes on my bed pan before I learn The Secret.

I think we can safely eliminate "insufficient sense of humor" as the cause.

Do you know how to dance "La Cookaracha" around the jars?

[Donita]

Can you smell other things? LOL......Robin is right.....you have to hold your tongue in a certain way and maybe close your eyes would help. Don't try to do too much in one day or you won't be able to smell anything.....I can't....sometimes I have to take my heat gun and zap the bottom of a candle to tell what it smells like. I get so used to them, that they all smell alike, except cinnamon things. Good luck....hapy experimenting. Donita

[Alohagirl]

I don't make container candles, so this may be way off but I'll ask anyway...

You said you're using 3" containers. Is a 3" wide melt pool big enough to give a strong throw?

[SatinDucky]

Did you try putting your tongue in your left cheek and stand on your right leg?

That's MY secret!

[SatinDucky]

I don't make container candles, so this may be way off but I'll ask anyway...

You said you're using 3" containers. Is a 3" wide melt pool big enough to give a strong throw?

Maybe i'm reading this wrong, but.... How could the mp be any wider than 3"?

[JimC]

Thanks for all your responses.

Dana, What does Crisco do for you?

[Alohagirl]

Maybe i'm reading this wrong, but.... How could the mp be any wider than 3"?

I was referring to the fact that the container is only 3" wide. Is there enough surface area to give a strong throw?

[sharyl55]

As a wick newbie, I can sympathize. Doesn't help you out though. I went thru 3 other FO suppliers before finding Peaks. The supplier does make a hugh difference. I threw out the other FO oils. Keeping trying other wicks. The new low smoke zincs seem to have a good hot throw for me right now. I tried several before giving in and trying the zincs. Just seem to get a better hot throw with the zincs. I'm learning to embrace the mushrooming. Good luck.

[DanaE]

Thanks for all your responses.

Dana, What does Crisco do for you?

I can't explain it. When I started making candles in 1999 I always added 1/8th teaspoon vybar and some crisco to all my candles because the first directions I'd read said to do so. I always had an outstanding scent throw, whether I was making votives, containers, soy containers, etc.

I LOVE to experiment, and after a while I started playing with tons of other waxes and just forgot all about adding vybar and crisco to the preblends.

I got frustrated recently because I'd tested so many container waxes and wasn't really happy with any of them. Some had wonderful scent throws but too much black smoke no matter how small of a wick I used, some were too picky with scents, etc. So I thought back to 1999-2000, when all my containers threw a strong scent and I was always happy with my candles. I realized I'd been using J-50 with vybar and Crisco, so I went back to doing that. I feel like the scent throw is increased, although it might be just the vybar and not the crisco. But I'm not chancing it so I use both

I know that using the crisco/vybar in my OK6228 pillars and votives does help increase the scent throw, but I have absolutely no idea what the chemistry behind it is.....I just know that for me it works, so I stick with it.

There have been many debates on the use of Crisco in the past. Some say because it's an oil you can load less FO into the wax, but that's not correct. By using crisco/vybar in the OK6228 wax, I can get 1-1/2 ounces of FO per lb, although it's not supposed to hold that much FO. Same with the J-50 - I can load it to 1-1/2 ounces of FO pp if I want to (although I usually keep it at 1 ounce pp).

Obviously this is just my experience.

DanaE

[Lin]

I use j-223 and have for the past three years and add nothing but fo and color but i also only use peaks fo,s in my containers unless its a scent someone has bugged me for and peaks dosent have it. Beleave me when i first started i had alot of problems and kept changing waxes, fo,s etc until i started useing peaks fo,s and the problem was solved. Ive bought alot of fo,s that just are not very strong and ill bet this is your problem. My customers cant beleave how great their candles smell. Try one of peaks fo,s and let the container sit for a week, then test it and i bet your smell a difference,lol.Lin

[Fern]

I think it might be the FO's that you are using as well, since you seem to be doing everything you are suppose to. I use J223 and get great scent throw and I don't add anything extra to it. There are only a few places that I buy FO's from and stick with those because I know that they are strong oils...and Peak's is one of them. Try a few samples and see for yourself. Some of the stronger scents that I can suggest are Midsummer's Night, Spruce Christmas Tree or Amish Harvest...just to name a few.

[KimOCandles]

Jim,

I don't know if it's your candles or your nose. Have you tried asking someone else to burn your candles? My mom helps me burn my candles, because I truly believe my nose gets "overwhelmed" by the candles from time to time. And, there for a while, due to my mom's job (she works in a factory where she is exposed to chemicals, and the inside of her nose was kinda raw, she couldn't smell ANYTHING). I know another chandler who has complained to her dh that she couldn't smell a candle, but dh could smell the candle just fine. Before pulling your hair out, try asking a trusted friend/family member to test a candle or two for you for scent throw only (leave the wick burning part up to you) and see what they think. Maybe your nose needs a break. Lord knows that with the mega testing we have been through here trying to get through my formula change our noses could use a break, but I can't bear the thought of no candle burning . Good luck with your testing!

KimO

P.S. Oh, and chanting usually helps too:D

[tlc26]

my thought is about the container. Is it a wide mouth container? If the opening for the container is to small and not enough air can get in/out, then the scent can't spread into the air circulating in the room.

[MommaD]

Exposure to making the candles will knock your sense of smell out for a couple of days. I never could smell my candles, especially after I had made a ton. Have someone else smell them for you. You will be shocked!

[Mozzie]

Jim, Big commisserations from me also - I have the same trouble BUT no access to Peak's FO's as they don't ship overseas. Has anyone out there tried Bitter Creek as I can order from them?

[Sallykate]

Hi Mozzie,

I have had a good experience with BC.

[Scented]

Jim, Big commisserations from me also - I have the same trouble BUT no access to Peak's FO's as they don't ship overseas. Has anyone out there tried Bitter Creek as I can order from them?

I've had good results with them too.

[candleessence]

ahhhh, welcome to the wonderful & frustrating world of candles. Many of us, including the most experienced forget that this is a science. You are experiencing what many of us have spent ALOT of time & money on.....little disappointing science experiments! I can't tell you how many FO's that I have gone through b/c I couldn't get a hot throw.....using the same wax, same wick & same FO supplier. It really is all just testing, testing, testing. Even if I absolutely love a certain FO-if it doesn't throw well in my wax -I either find a different supplier for it or ditch it all together. Hang in there, it can be very frustrating but when you do make AN EXCELLENT candle above all others it's well worth it!

[Mtngrl]

I stopped making candles end of June, and am just waiting for cooloer weather to set in to start anew. 90's-100's w/ no air conditioning & very little air movement iin the kitchen was just torture!

After a few weeks of not making any candles, I started test burning the containers I had already made. I discovered that the FOs I couldn't smell before, I now could.

It's also been my experience that when I started using heavier FOs (heavier in the sense of stronger) in the candles I was making, I could then only smell those - none of the weaker/softer ones.

So, my conclusion is that heavier/stronger FOs kill my ability to smell lighter/softer/weaker FOs. In other words, "candle-nose."