Troubles wicking 3" tumbler with IGI 6006

[gc78]

Hello! I am new here and new to candle making. I bought the beautiful straight sided lib jar from candle science and absolutely love the aesthetic. I'm not having any issues with soy 464 and CD 18 wick with 10% FO. However, I really love the HT with IGI 6006 but have been struggling. FO load with IGI6006 is 6-8%. The best luck I have had so far is with a zinc core wick that reached a full melt pool by 3.5-4.0 hours. Which I guess probably isn't bad, however the second burn the flame seemed too high and smoked a lot more. It could be as simple as keeping the wick really short, but I want a candle that people can feel safe with and not necessarily worry about too much maintenance. Second burn the wick was maybe a tad over 1/4 inch and the flame did eventually calm down, but still. So I have been exploring options of double wicking. I tried two CD 4's but they curled too much to one side of the glass and it became too hot. I've tried ECOs, CDs, Zincs, and now I have ordered CDNs. Would anyone be willing to lend some kind advice. Best!

Edited April 18, 2023 by gc78
include more details

[bfroberts]

6006 doesn't burn with a wide melt pool like soy and some other waxes. It burns down and then outward, creating a deeper but narrower melt pool. If you wick for a full melt pool in the first part of the jar, it is going to be massively over-wicked in the bottom half of the jar. Correctly wicked, it is going to look different than what you may be used to with 464. I like to have some hangup until about halfway down the jar. That usually keeps the jar temp moderate, the throw good and you end with a clean jar. Try 51z if you have some of those.

[DamifinoEac]

I ran into this problem with 3.75 wide straight sided, using custom soy blend wax. Working with advise from TallTayl, some wicks curl out depending upon the "threading" of the wick. I now place my two wicks to curl in opposite directions when lit. You essentially have 2 melt pools converging, but the jar does not overheat. Look in this subforum a couple months back, and it should give you some ideas. Happy to help! 

[DamifinoEac]

2 hours ago, DamifinoEac said:

I ran into this problem with 3.75 wide straight sided, using custom soy blend wax. Working with advise from TallTayl, some wicks curl out depending upon the "threading" of the wick. I now place my two wicks to curl in opposite directions when lit. You essentially have 2 melt pools converging, but the jar does not overheat. Look in this subforum a couple months back, and it should give you some ideas. Happy to help! 

Forgot to add the link to a post, with curl info...

 

[gc78]

Thank you for the replies. I did end up reaching a full melt pool a little shy of three hours with #2 CDNs double wicked, but like you said it gets pretty hot about half way down the jar. Glass tested at about 130-160 at times. The flame also started doing some kind of a weird sideways nose dive toward the melt pool. Anyone know if this is because of too much fragrance load or something else? I can't figure out why the flame doesn't want to stay upright. I did finally figure out the wick curl and placing them so they curl in opposite directions. I tried ZC 60 which was the closest I think I have come with a single wick. However, it tunneled pretty bad and never reached a full melt pool. The other thing that has been bothering me is that I feel like I have to test wicks that might not be properly maintained (If someone forgets to trim the wicks) Single wicks seemed worse than double wicks in this scenario. I'm thinking of giving up on this jar and going just slightly wider to maybe 3.5 and using the CDN2s. I would be curious if anyone has really had much success with a 3" diameter and 6006. I'm at my wicks end! 🙂It's unfortunate because its such a reasonably priced jar and I think very elegant. 

[bfroberts]

18 hours ago, gc78 said:

Thank you for the replies. I did end up reaching a full melt pool a little shy of three hours with #2 CDNs double wicked, but like you said it gets pretty hot about half way down the jar. Glass tested at about 130-160 at times. The flame also started doing some kind of a weird sideways nose dive toward the melt pool. Anyone know if this is because of too much fragrance load or something else? I can't figure out why the flame doesn't want to stay upright. I did finally figure out the wick curl and placing them so they curl in opposite directions. I tried ZC 60 which was the closest I think I have come with a single wick. However, it tunneled pretty bad and never reached a full melt pool. The other thing that has been bothering me is that I feel like I have to test wicks that might not be properly maintained (If someone forgets to trim the wicks) Single wicks seemed worse than double wicks in this scenario. I'm thinking of giving up on this jar and going just slightly wider to maybe 3.5 and using the CDN2s. I would be curious if anyone has really had much success with a 3" diameter and 6006. I'm at my wicks end! 🙂It's unfortunate because its such a reasonably priced jar and I think very elegant. 

I have sold a lot of status jar candles with 6006 over the yrs. It can successfully be done. 3" diameter is really not a hard container to wick at all as long as you are realistic about the melt pool. You should have some hangup for the first few burns.  Also, with 6006 you really need to allow the wax to cure at least 10 days or more. It will look totally different after 3 weeks than it does after 3 days. The burn quality is substantially improved with a longer cure.  I have used a lot of wicks with 6006...zinc, LX, CD, Eco, HTP. I prefer a non-curling wick for a more symmetrical melt pool in this style container, but all of the types mentioned work well and are pretty simple to dial in.  A good cure is essential. I wouldn't double wick a 3" container.  

[TallTayl]

3 inch wide really does seem like a magical measurement. Especially if it’s at least 3 inches tall. Better to be 4 inches tall. It’s kind of the golden ratio for pretty much every candle I’ve ever made.

[gc78]

I did notice what seemed to be the correct size testing after 24 hours was too small when the candle cured longer. In fact it seemed like it was a couple of sizes too small. @bfroberts Do you notice that trend as well? The longer it cures, you may have to wick up?

[bfroberts]

9 hours ago, gc78 said:

I did notice what seemed to be the correct size testing after 24 hours was too small when the candle cured longer. In fact it seemed like it was a couple of sizes too small. @bfroberts Do you notice that trend as well? The longer it cures, you may have to wick up?

Yep, but it can go both ways depending on the wick type. In one way or another, the wick that works shortly after pour doesn't usually end up being the wick that is appropriate after a good cure. 

[gc78]

Maddening. A true test of patience! :-). I think I am pretty close. I did switch jars to 3.5 diameter and it seems to be a bit easier. I'm not saying I am giving up on the 3" but may come back to it once I have this dialed in. The CDN wicks are ok, but what I have noticed is that the longer they burn, the cooler they get. Which I guess is good for liability, but I end up with a full melt pool and a tiny flame. If I size up, it doesn't improve it because the melt pool just gets deeper and the wick still nearly drowns. Hot throw is amazing and the glass stays luke warm, but I prefer a slightly bigger flame so you can at least tell the candle is lit. Maybe I am just being too picky at this point.  I have some CD 4's I am going to try. I also ordered more zinc core and HTP as well as the premier 700 series sample pack. I know I need to make some candles and put them away in the cupboard for 2 weeks and just walk away. It's hard when you really want to get it right! 

[TallTayl]

The shrinking flame is possibly due to:

- fragrance (or color) clogging the wick

- undersized wicks… (or wrong wick series altogether). the increased temp in the lower half of the burn generates more heat, melts more fuel and pumps that fuel harder through the wick.  If the wick is undersized for the viscosity of the wax it can just not move the fuel faster than the flame eats with wick material. 

-the solvents in your fragrance

 

Super frustrating when a candle is perfect at the top and fizzles further down.  It’s why testing all the way to the bottom saves heartache and embarrassment later on when it happens at a customer’s place. 
 

CDN are CD series wick treated with a second sodium chemical bath to help them withstand more acidic veg. They can be great in certain blends, like coconut primary blends but less good IMO in soy primary blends.   

[AudraT]

On 4/18/2023 at 3:18 PM, gc78 said:

Hello! I am new here and new to candle making. I bought the beautiful straight sided lib jar from candle science and absolutely love the aesthetic. I'm not having any issues with soy 464 and CD 18 wick with 10% FO. However, I really love the HT with IGI 6006 but have been struggling. FO load with IGI6006 is 6-8%. The best luck I have had so far is with a zinc core wick that reached a full melt pool by 3.5-4.0 hours. Which I guess probably isn't bad, however the second burn the flame seemed too high and smoked a lot more. It could be as simple as keeping the wick really short, but I want a candle that people can feel safe with and not necessarily worry about too much maintenance. Second burn the wick was maybe a tad over 1/4 inch and the flame did eventually calm down, but still. So I have been exploring options of double wicking. I tried two CD 4's but they curled too much to one side of the glass and it became too hot. I've tried ECOs, CDs, Zincs, and now I have ordered CDNs. Would anyone be willing to lend some kind advice. Best!

I am also new and I use that exact same jar so I understand the struggle. I actually don't have quite as many issues with it because I only use two types of wax brands, a paraffin-soy blend and then a pure soy. I won't go into suggestions because people here have already said some really good pointers.
I am encouraged that people said it's a good jar though (yay! We choose well) and that 3 inches x 3 inches or, in the case of the Libby jar, 3 inches x 3.5 inches is the magic number.

Edited May 10, 2023 by AudraT

[gc78]

Thank you all for the suggestions. I just wanted to give an update. I have ordered every wick under the sun haha. If I could start over, I would just order a sample pack of every series! My candle recipe is super simple IMO. I settled on 8% FO which has been giving me perfect scent throw in both 464 and 6006. I prefer a strong candle. The only other two things I am adding is UV Inhibitor and white candle dye chips. Sometimes the 6006 seems a bit yellow and definitely turns more yellow without the UV inhibitor. Throughout all this testing, the one thing I haven't done is remove those two items. I tried the premier 700's. I still got some black soot but it was much less than the ECOs.. The ECOs are just a no go for me. Lots of soot. I'm still favoriting the CDs or the CDNs. Even if they start out wild half way down the jar (let's say someone doesnt trim the wick), they calm down to a small flame and the jar isn't too hot. The CDNs definitely struggle more once the full melt pool hits, but they still stay lit and you can smell the fragrance quite well. Both of them seem to self trim so well. I haven't experimented with the HTPS other than the 52's which were much too small. I've ordered up to the 83 in those. Do you think the UV Inhibitor or the Candle Dye chips really make that much difference? Also, every fragrance oil is different. Not uncommon to move up or down 1-2 wick sizes with different oils and the exact same recipe. 

 

I've attached some pictures to get some feedback 🙂 

[TallTayl]

17 minutes ago, gc78 said:

Thank you all for the suggestions. I just wanted to give an update. I have ordered every wick under the sun haha. If I could start over, I would just order a sample pack of every series! My candle recipe is super simple IMO. I settled on 8% FO which has been giving me perfect scent throw in both 464 and 6006. I prefer a strong candle. The only other two things I am adding is UV Inhibitor and white candle dye chips. Sometimes the 6006 seems a bit yellow and definitely turns more yellow without the UV inhibitor. Throughout all this testing, the one thing I haven't done is remove those two items. I tried the premier 700's. I still got some black soot but it was much less than the ECOs.. The ECOs are just a no go for me. Lots of soot. I'm still favoriting the CDs or the CDNs. Even if they start out wild half way down the jar (let's say someone doesnt trim the wick), they calm down to a small flame and the jar isn't too hot. The CDNs definitely struggle more once the full melt pool hits, but they still stay lit and you can smell the fragrance quite well. Both of them seem to self trim so well. I haven't experimented with the HTPS other than the 52's which were much too small. I've ordered up to the 83 in those. Do you think the UV Inhibitor or the Candle Dye chips really make that much difference? Also, every fragrance oil is different. Not uncommon to move up or down 1-2 wick sizes with different oils and the exact same recipe. 

 

I've attached some pictures to get some feedback 🙂 

Congrats! Isn’t it fun when it begins to click? I’m so happy for you!!!

 

yes it’s normal to wick up/down several sizes between fragrances. Solvents and aroma chemicals all behave chemically different in waxes. Science is fun.  
 

Yes, dye chips can also change the  wicking. 

[BenderSF]

1 hour ago, gc78 said:

The only other two things I am adding is UV Inhibitor and white candle dye chips...Throughout all this testing, the one thing I haven't done is remove those two items

I have no personal experience with it but I've heard that white dye chips in particular were very difficult to work with.  I wanted to use white dye a few years ago and did some searching on this forum first.  I can't remember exact details now but it wasn't recommended, something about white dye being a pigment and/or titanium dioxide, either of which will clog wicks.

 

That's just hearsay based on my faulty memory  , but thought I'd throw that out there.  You said you've been using the white dye in all of your testers, so it might be worthwhile to make a tester without it just to see if it makes a difference.

 

Good luck! 

[gc78]

10 hours ago, BenderSF said:

I have no personal experience with it but I've heard that white dye chips in particular were very difficult to work with.  I wanted to use white dye a few years ago and did some searching on this forum first.  I can't remember exact details now but it wasn't recommended, something about white dye being a pigment and/or titanium dioxide, either of which will clog wicks.

 

That's just hearsay based on my faulty memory  , but thought I'd throw that out there.  You said you've been using the white dye in all of your testers, so it might be worthwhile to make a tester without it just to see if it makes a difference.

 

Good luck! 

 I was definitely suspicious of those dye chips because even after I add them at the right temperature and mix appropriately, they seem to pool at the bottom of the wax when I pour. I'm only using about 1/4 of a chip per candle, but it does seem to make a difference in the brightness of the wax. I love a creamy off white looking candle when using a clear jar. I've ordered those gold straight sided libby's from candle science which I can try without the dye since they are not clear. Excited to see if that's been the culprit this entire time haha! @TallTayl Yes Science is fun! I do love a challenge. And to think I thought this would be so easy. Silly me!! haha

[Noob82]

Premier Wicks 700 series for 6006. Probably 735 or 745. Trust me I tested almost everything and Premier is by far the best option. CD was close but not good enough

Edited June 10, 2023 by Noob82