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Rough tops and sink holes around wicks


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I know this is an issue with 464, but is there anything else I can do to minimize this? This is my process, I heat the wax in a digi boil to 195, I dispense the amount I need, pour my 10%FO in around 185 but no less the 180. I gently stir for 2mins. I let the wax cool to about 130-140 and I also heat the jars in the oven and try to get them close to the temp of the wax. I have all the candles spaced out, and on a cookie cooling rack. What else can I do? This is driving me crazy. 

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I have found that the less percentage of FO will make for a smoother top.  I have tried with 6%, 8% and 10%.  The 6 / 7% comes out smooth.  The more oil, the rougher it was.  If you have a couple of extra containers, pour a few with different percentages and compare.   

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Ill have to give that a try, I just worry the candles wont be as strong. Does everything else in my process seem to be correct? I feel like ive taken every suggestion ive found online and tried it, I will definitely give your suggestion a try next. Thank you for your feedback! 

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Your temperatures are pretty much the temps that I go by. I do pour at 135°.  The one thing I have noticed, is that my ambient temp in the house is around 70°. And the humidity is somewhere between 40s and 60% depending on the day. I also pour wickless for testing. I haven't had any issues with sinkholes but with the rough tops I can tell you what's worked for me. I usually just use a heat gun and heat up the containers prior to pouring and they've been fine. But I did notice a major difference in the oil percentage and rough tops.  

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You can pour higher, and finish will be better. This wax is designed for that. Other soys no. You need to make tester 10 % fo pour 150, 145, 140.  Then do 8 per cent, 6 per cent. Cure some two weeks and burn. It’s a pain doing pour testers but worth nailing it for smooth tops.

Now if you go wickless some tests will show ring crack but if you wick this should go away for the most part. If you just decided to do 10 per cent fragrance load without testing 6 per cent then its a must to test. More fragrance does not mean better candle and if you make these candles now particularly in warmer weather that extra fragrance will bead up on top of candle warmer months. Ask me how I know.

This is all about finding good fragrances that work in your wax.

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Thank you all so much, I am definitely going to drop the fragrance load and try the suggested pour temps. I have a green winged macaw, fragrance is deadly to them, so I have to make my candles in the basement apartment. The whole house runs one one system the temp down there could also be effecting my process. Ill have to get a good space heater to see if I can get the room to stay at 70, also never thought about humidity. Wow there is so much that goes into the process! I actually just learned about wickless testing recently and it has come in handy. I have 2 different sized apothecary jars I poured and have struggled to find the correct wick for either of them yet, thank goodness I dont have to keep pouring them, that would get so expensive. I tried CD16, 20, 26, and now im going to try double wicking with CD8s. Thank you for all the advice. 

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On 3/28/2022 at 9:09 AM, Lynnann81 said:

I know this is an issue with 464, but is there anything else I can do to minimize this? This is my process, I heat the wax in a digi boil to 195, I dispense the amount I need, pour my 10%FO in around 185 but no less the 180. I gently stir for 2mins. I let the wax cool to about 130-140 and I also heat the jars in the oven and try to get them close to the temp of the wax. I have all the candles spaced out, and on a cookie cooling rack. What else can I do? This is driving me crazy. 

This happened when I over heated 464.  Picture below is heated to 205, but similar things happened when I heat it more than 190.

20160828_1416182.thumb.jpg.97d53d14278cf09e2ddf5d432486ec42.jpg

 

This happened when I stir gently and don't mix FO well with the wax.  FO should be added at any temperature above 170, and it should be stirred really well.  

20161005_0953252.thumb.jpg.fcf82c97d3dcaaee0b3e253fd5d203cf.jpg

 

These are good poured 100% 464.  

20161021_1207142.thumb.jpg.486c03b3e840b5d2b0ebbdeb81f538f4.jpg

 

I heat the wax to 182.

I add FO anywhere between 170 to 182 and stir vigorously.

I pour at 130 - 135.  This is at room temperature around 70.  You might want to play around with pouring temperature to find right one for different room temperatures.

*I use 10 to 12% FO.

*If you add 4% IGI R2322A (Glass Glow Palm) to 464, then it will behave a lot better.

 

Smooth top after burn is possible if you can find the right wick in 464.

Picture2.png.43a859c6f4ee6de06685c38e307dcada.png

 

 

 

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Using the double boiler I would only heat the wax to 185, but using the digi boil the temp gets to low when transferring to the pouring pitcher. This probably wouldn't be a problem if I was making larger quantities of the same candle, but im usually only making a few of one type. I even hit the pitcher with the heat gun before pouring. Ive never thought to add the FO lower then 180-185. I was always under the impression that FO had to be added at those temps. Thank you for the pictures and explanations. I will add this to my list of tests! I have seen many great suggestions on here for blending waxes that id like to try, but should I wait until I fully understand what im doing with 464, or is ok to start experimenting with other stuff? 

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You can a little grill to put pouring pots on and keep them warm or warm up to pouring temp. Room temp for me is pretty crucial for good tops. I get good tops around 150. 464 is designed to be poured hotter. Try 130-140-150. Keep room temp at 70-75. Consistency in variables will give you best results. Do a test 10 per cent then one at 7 per cent observe how it affects candle appearance and burn.

And as Busybee says blend fragrance oil in well. I add at 180-185 because it can leach out in warmer temps. Take notes of all tests.

it can be a slow process getting your technique down but worth it. You will have the knowledge how to fix things, adjust wax in future.

If you add anything you will have to test again even at 1 per cent! If plain 464 makes you crazy you can blend it with coconut wax or a paraffin and instant smooth wax or switch to a parasoy. Also soy waxes can vary in their lots. Your one box might be heaven the next box a clinker.

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I had never thought about that! A little hot plate to keep the wax where I need it temp wise for FO, so I wont need to heat it so high. That is a great suggestion. Is there a specific type I should purchase? 

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One of the other things I do that I forgot to mention is that I stir numerous times. I'll stir for the first 2 minutes vigorously (fast stir) then again in a few minutes, repeat, then stir right before I pour. Whether it makes a difference or not, I don't know, but it's what I do so that I feel that the oil is now thoroughly blended evenly throughout the wax. 

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Great I will purchase it today! 

 

Stirring- I set a timer for 2 mins and stir with a tablespoon, I do stir again right before pouring. I thought that stirring too fast would cause rougher tops, ill give it a try. 

I made a batch of pure paradise candles the next day they were sweating so I lowered the FO, made another batch and stirred much better they still had sweat on them after 24hrs. I assumed I either didnt stir well enough or was using to high of a fragrance load. I absolutely love this scent but haven't gotten a great candles out of it yet. 😕 

 

Totally off topic but what do you guys weigh your fragrance oils out in? I was using little glass containers but thats a pain, then I tried little silicone measuring cups. I was hoping to find something disposable, any chance dixie cups would be an option? I know FO melts plastic if left to long I see what a drop of it did to my scale. How do you get all the FO out of your pouring pitchers? This drives me nuts I use the heat gun and a bunch of paper towels and wipe it the best I can. Im sorry for all the questions, thank you for all of the advice. 

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  • 3 months later...
Guest Jroy97

I use Dixie cups exclusively for measuring and pouring fragrance oils, they work perfect, I just wouldn’t leave the oils in there longer than 10-15 minutes.

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On 4/3/2022 at 10:29 AM, Lynnann81 said:

... what do you guys weigh your fragrance oils out in? I was using little glass containers but thats a pain, then I tried little silicone measuring cups. I was hoping to find something disposable, any chance dixie cups would be an option? I know FO melts plastic if left to long I see what a drop of it did to my scale. How do you get all the FO out of your pouring pitchers? This drives me nuts I use the heat gun and a bunch of paper towels and wipe it the best I can. Im sorry for all the questions, thank you for all of the advice. 

 

I like to use something called a Mini Measuring Shot Glass.  I use it on a scale and weigh out my fragrance oil, taking note of how much that particular scent fills the glass (there are measurement markings on the glass), then for the next time, I know how much to pour into the shot glass since I've already taken the weight.  It works well if you're only making a candle or two since it's only a one-ounce glass.  I place it in a paper cup to catch any spills, the paper soaks up some oil after several uses, but I'm not going through paper cups, trying to be resourceful.  🙂   

 

For pouring pots, I just use different pots.  Also, it's such a big deal if they aren't perfectly clean, you're adding new wax and scent, so I wouldn't worry much about using a heat gun and a bunch of paper towels, imho, it's not necessary ... save yourself the time & money!

 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

I pour scent right into the pour pot, otherwise the cling can throw my calculations off.  Cling can account for quite a bit of scent waste.  I put the bottle of scent on the scale, tare out and work negative.  If the scale says -.30oz then I know I have exactly .30 oz in the pour pot with the wax ready to be made into a candle.

 

When I am teaching a class I will often have the class pour into metal sauce cups so they don't spill all over the place.  Then they pour those into the pour pots.  When we weigh them at the end there is still a lot of scent clinging so we make sure to add a tad extra to account for the difference.

Edited by CandleCocoon
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