ASTM Standards-Has anyone Purchased The Publication?

[TallTayl]

I’ve seen numbers floating around here and Facebook about ASTM container surface temperature standards, but have not been successful finding the same on Candles.Org / ASTM without purchasing the publication.
 

The temp most people quote is either 170*F or 175*F max container surface temp of a burning container. There is no mention of container material. Not sure where this number came from, but I think it might actually be very wrong. 
 

what makes me ponder this is what I DID find on a retailer site that references ASTM standards for candles.

retailer Home Goods references ASTM F2417-04 Section 4.4 standard max surface temp of any metal candle container at 125*F and 140*F surface temp limit for glass. This is far different from the often quoted 170-175*f.

Further search supports the ASTM container surface temp limits of 125*F for metal and 140*F for glass in a safety inspection report from Regent Products. See page 30. This publication references UL 153, 12th edition Table 125.  The UL publication costs $716-$1567, which i would prefer no to shell out to find the answer if it is already available somewhere else. 

https://www.regentproducts.com/images/pdf/Lead/G24717CS (2).pdf

Also worth noting is the standard minimum flammability test for the container. It must withstand 3 full minutes exposed to a flame without showing any sign of it being about to catch fire. Similar flammability tests for tea light cups are earlier in the document.

 

Standard Tests for soot, afterglow, smoke following extinguishing, flame height, etc are also included and are worth a read. 
 

though “voluntary” these standards are used in litigation when candle incidents occur, so it’s definitely worth understanding how our candles should also perform to protect ourselves.

 

 

[bfroberts]

I have not purchased but I’ve kinda been considering it. 

 

Kohls has a similar doc dated 2021 that can be viewed here:  https://www.kohls.com/media/digital/k-link/downloads/pdf/100_T-CANDLE_INCLUDING_FREESTANDING_TAPER_TEALIGHT_VOTIVE_ FILLED_ NOVELTY_CANDLES.pdf

 

It doesn’t mention ASTM in regards to container temp. Their requirements are no greater than 140 for metal and 175 for glass.  I want to think those temps are increased from their previous requirements, but I can’t remember for sure. So…a mystery.

 

[TallTayl]

3 hours ago, bfroberts said:

I have not purchased but I’ve kinda been considering it. 

 

Kohls has a similar doc dated 2021 that can be viewed here:  https://www.kohls.com/media/digital/k-link/downloads/pdf/100_T-CANDLE_INCLUDING_FREESTANDING_TAPER_TEALIGHT_VOTIVE_ FILLED_ NOVELTY_CANDLES.pdf

 

It doesn’t mention ASTM in regards to container temp. Their requirements are no greater than 140 for metal and 175 for glass.  I want to think those temps are increased from their previous requirements, but I can’t remember for sure. So…a mystery.

 

So kohl’s seems to have a container temp standard more lax than ASTM. 
 

the other tests are per ASTM 2417-17. 2017 is the latest revision I have found available for reference or purchase. 

[Lovejoy444]

I'm an utter noob to candle making, and have been wondering about the ASTM standards. I was actually surprised to find that this set of safety standards we're encouraged (by the courts!) to abide by in order to CYA in case of litigation are... secret???... behind a pay wall??? WTF? I don't understand this at all. Why are the safety standards of the industry hidden from those who need to know and follow them? Am I just naive...?

I was confused by your price quote of $716-$1567, TallTayl. To buy ASTM F2417-17 from the ASTM site itself was $54. This obviously did not include any updates done subsequent to 2017. What is included in the very expensive document you referenced?

Sorry I don't have any input for you guys, but thank you for starting this thread.

 

😃

Laurie

[TallTayl]

3 hours ago, Lovejoy444 said:

I'm an utter noob to candle making, and have been wondering about the ASTM standards. I was actually surprised to find that this set of safety standards we're encouraged (by the courts!) to abide by in order to CYA in case of litigation are... secret???... behind a pay wall??? WTF? I don't understand this at all. Why are the safety standards of the industry hidden from those who need to know and follow them? Am I just naive...?

I was confused by your price quote of $716-$1567, TallTayl. To buy ASTM F2417-17 from the ASTM site itself was $54. This obviously did not include any updates done subsequent to 2017. What is included in the very expensive document you referenced?

Sorry I don't have any input for you guys, but thank you for starting this thread.

 

😃

Laurie

IKR? though, they probably expect candle manufacturers to seek and purchase the measurements by which they must comply. This is similar in many industries, isn’t it? 
 

unfortunately many, many, many candle makers send out absolute fails and don’t even know it. It’s up to us to learn and share, if for no other reason to keep our industry from becoming more highly regulated.
 

the hogher quote for the UL standards  referenced in the other link. 

[Lovejoy444]

On 2/10/2022 at 9:50 PM, TallTayl said:

the hogher quote for the UL standards  referenced in the other link. 

I'm so sorry I can't read, TallTayl. 🤣 I don't know why I didn't notice that that crazy prize was for the UL document, not the ASTM. 🙄

Edited February 16, 2022 by Lovejoy444

[pughaus]

Forgive me if I've shard this before, but this man says he is a co author the ASTM protocols. 140 F is the max temp according to him .   
His responses to comments are enlightening.

 

 

Edited February 17, 2022 by pughaus

[TallTayl]

13 hours ago, pughaus said:

Forgive me if I've shard this before, but this man says he is a co author the ASTM protocols. 140 F is the max temp according to him .   
His responses to comments are enlightening.

 

 

Bookmarking this to watch after I get the animals situated today.  Thank you! 
ASTM has not yet replied to my initial query.  Will ping again today. 
 

140*F can make a wonderful, safe candle. I always cringed at the 175*F because that is scorching hot. 
 

I just want to know if that number is actually published in the standard before I buy it. 

[Milk Machine]

I did end up buying the ASTM F2417-17 Fire Safety for Candles. There is nothing about container surface temperatures.   I'm so disappointed. I spent the $57 for peace of mind and to cover myself. It provides no guidelines on this subject. No 140° no 170° no 175°.  I don't know where other people get these figures from but it is not from that document. So if you are considering buying it to get that official guideline don't bother.  All the other information contained I have read here or other candle blogs. Big waste of money

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[TallTayl]

57 minutes ago, Milk Machine said:

I did end up buying the ASTM F2417-17 Fire Safety for Candles. There is nothing about container surface temperatures.   I'm so disappointed. I spent the $57 for peace of mind and to cover myself. It provides no guidelines on this subject. No 140° no 170° no 175°.  I don't know where other people get these figures from but it is not from that document. So if you are considering buying it to get that official guideline don't bother.  All the other information contained I have read here or other candle blogs. Big waste of money

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I bought it too. Worth the $ to me though for testing. If something goes wrong with a candle in the wild, at least I can prove I test correctly and that I chose proper containers! Not combustible materials of any sort. And I know how to test tea light holders. Lots of good info in there. 
 

i have a bone to pick with those who profess to the 175*F temp though. The quote came from somewhere, and like a questionable opinion blog post, was copied and pasted far and wide as fact.
 

Where I do see temps to consider is the UL testing documents I have posted about before. 125*f for metal and 150-145* for glass or ceramic depending on the test version used. Google around for those PDF results. 

[rHouse]

On 2/10/2022 at 6:29 PM, Lovejoy444 said:

I'm an utter noob to candle making, and have been wondering about the ASTM standards. I was actually surprised to find that this set of safety standards we're encouraged (by the courts!) to abide by in order to CYA in case of litigation are... secret???... behind a pay wall??? WTF? I don't understand this at all. Why are the safety standards of the industry hidden from those who need to know and follow them? Am I just naive...?

I was confused by your price quote of $716-$1567, TallTayl. To buy ASTM F2417-17 from the ASTM site itself was $54. This obviously did not include any updates done subsequent to 2017. What is included in the very expensive document you referenced?

Sorry I don't have any input for you guys, but thank you for starting this thread.

 

😃

Laurie

I always thought that very same, the last few years have had a huge increase of chandlers, some have never even heard of ASTM. It’s almost never mentioned by “influencers”. It’s only how much money can be made.