RichardLOZ Posted December 7, 2021 Share Posted December 7, 2021 /Begin Rant I was fliting around FB yesterday and managed to join about 5 or 6 Australian Candle making groups, and just reading some of the comments was quite concerning! People who have never made a candle before, looking to start with Woodwicks, people chasing scents that are not available from their usual supplier for an order they have, wondering if that same scent is available from an alternate supplier, not considering that perhaps it may also be a different formulation and will need to be tested. People doing pillar candles in Vanilla and wondering why the colour is not white, then remake it only to find the same issue, then remake it again in a different scent to ensure it is white - no consultation with the customer, not testing the new scent, as typically vanilla does need wicking up, so if they used the same wick for their alternate scent...... People asking what wicks should I use in a particular jar, as they have an order to get done. When we started, we spent at least 12 months testing, then testing again, then testing again. Even now are almost 10 years experience doing this, we have tested each and every scent / jar combination from scratch as things have, and obviously do change. Also went to a market on Sunday that we are thinking about attending. Two other candle people there, both extremely cheap. One was essentially just melt shots and clams, the other was Apothecary jars. 450 gram Apothecary jar in Soy for $20 AUD is insanely cheap. She would have been lucky to be making $5. All were double wicked, and it took me picking up 10 - 12 jars before I could actually find one where the wicks were reasonably centered. I mean really! If I have a candle where the wick in not centered for any reason, it does not make it on to the stall. it does not get gifted to friends and family. It could be bloody dangerous and damage something or cause fire in the worst case scenario. So much has changed since we last produced candles, however it looks like more fly by nighters and people out to make a quick buck have increased. Maybe COVID drove everyone stir crazy, so they all thought - I have a great idea! I will make candles to sell and will not have to work a normal job any longer..... /End Rant 11 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallTayl Posted December 8, 2021 Share Posted December 8, 2021 Welcome to why I lose sleep at night. Covid lockdowns we’re when the supply issues got crazy. Thousands of new “lux”, “luxe” etc candle companies “launched” selling all sorts of products for top $. Then wicks went out of stock everywhere and nobody understood testing new wicks was pretty darned important. The yarns changes and burns were totally different. fragrances were reformulated out of the blue. Testing a new bottle gets me dragged all the time, even here. waxes changed radically starting back in 2016. Again, baseline testing gets me dragged, so hey suffer the consequences for not testing. 🤷🏻♀️ containers changed in dimension and glass formulation. Some glass jars are different thickness from one side to the other 😬. Wait til you start seeing posts of candles that caught fire, exploded, burn to a black crisp and the person blames the customer. And then everyone in the group joins in since it is ALWAYS the customer’s fault in their minds. wait til you start seeing wooden dough bowls used as candle containers that smolder and burst into flames. Again, they blame the customers. wait til you see the people using combustible and flammable materials in and on their candles and sell them as therapeutic and such, intended to be used in CHILDRENS rooms for alt medicine. enrages me every time. all I can do is mind MY business, stay in my lane and grow MY people. Well, and help people who find their way here make the best products they can to build a durable company that thrives. 7 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
franu61 Posted December 8, 2021 Share Posted December 8, 2021 Speaking of combustible: Does anybody put glitter on top of their wax on candles? I saw this at a craft fair, done by a long time chandler. completely covered the surface.Is there a safe glitter? Even if not combustible, wouldn't it clog the wick? It was pretty, but really? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardLOZ Posted December 8, 2021 Author Share Posted December 8, 2021 1 hour ago, TallTayl said: all I can do is mind MY business, stay in my lane and grow MY people. Well, and help people who find their way here make the best products they can to build a durable company that thrives. Yes and that's about the size of it, and exactly what we plan on doing. At least I know that what we produce burns well, is safe and will lead to great customer satisfaction. Already I have had an order form one of my old customers from years ago, who said she has been looking out for us since we stopped. The website has only been live for about a week, and only has about 6 products on it as we have yet to take new pictures. Always willing to learn new things and help others where I can, but otherwise will also stay in my own lane, and try to bite my tongue on the FB groups. I am not a prolific poster at the best of times on FB, so will just observe.... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardLOZ Posted December 8, 2021 Author Share Posted December 8, 2021 57 minutes ago, franu61 said: It was pretty, but really? Seems to be a thing these days, glitter and botanicals. Why cant people appreciate a candle for a great burn and great scent. People really enjoy complicating their lives I guess? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lizzy Posted December 8, 2021 Share Posted December 8, 2021 Don't. Even. Get. Started. On. Facebook. Candlemaking. Groups. 2021 has really been testing my patience. HOLY 💩 1 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallTayl Posted December 8, 2021 Share Posted December 8, 2021 11 hours ago, RichardLOZ said: Yes and that's about the size of it, and exactly what we plan on doing. At least I know that what we produce burns well, is safe and will lead to great customer satisfaction. Already I have had an order form one of my old customers from years ago, who said she has been looking out for us since we stopped. The website has only been live for about a week, and only has about 6 products on it as we have yet to take new pictures. Always willing to learn new things and help others where I can, but otherwise will also stay in my own lane, and try to bite my tongue on the FB groups. I am not a prolific poster at the best of times on FB, so will just observe.... Btw, I didn’t mean mind MY business as being snooty. I meant “mind” as pay attention to and focus on. When I spend energy inwardly focused something magical happens. It takes a lot of energy to read those groups. .I’m exhausted just thinking about it. the only great thing about watching those groups is knowing we need to prepare for some sort of regulation. Candle fires caused by unscrupulous makers will alter our ability to insure at some point. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErronB Posted December 9, 2021 Share Posted December 9, 2021 I was making soy candles for a long time before soy went to hell, then after a while I started dabbling with 6006 and joined some FB groups thinking it would be just as easy to figure out as 464 but it is a completely different animal, and some of the wick / vessel combinations I tried were terrifying. Even ones recommended by people that others look up to as so called ‘experts’. One example : a 3” glass tumbler, double wicked with HTP 104’s in 6006. That’s pretty much a guaranteed glass breaking combo when that burns further down. Everybody has their own opinion on what a decently wicked candle is, and how safe something has to be, so it’s always going to be a complete crap shoot. my opinion is FB groups are literally useless for advice, but they can be good for getting ideas to try new things. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreaCactus Posted December 16, 2021 Share Posted December 16, 2021 (edited) Hello, I joined some fb candle groups a couple years ago. They can make me feel down because I see others making 464 or 444 candles with smooth tops and no problems. I always have sink holes lurking below and I have learned to just poke holes and double pour to be safe. However, are these fb people right? Can you achieve smooth, sinkhole free candles that you are confident to sell with 464 or 444? I also asked in a group if anyone who used soy only had switched to a paraffin blend & what was their experience with customers, but I just got links to soy-paraffin blends and someone saying they never have 464 issues😞. Thanks for this post. I can get some of my frustrations out:) Edited December 16, 2021 by DreaCactus Misspell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallTayl Posted December 16, 2021 Share Posted December 16, 2021 20 minutes ago, DreaCactus said: Hello, I joined some fb candle groups a couple years ago. They can make me feel down because I see others making 464 or 444 candles with smooth tops and no problems. I always have sink holes lurking below and I have learned to just poke holes and double pour to be safe. However, are these fb people right? Can you achieve smooth, sinkhole free candles that you are confident to sell with 464 or 444? I also asked in a group if anyone who used soy only had switched to a paraffin blend & what was their experience with customers, but I just got links to soy-paraffin blends and someone saying they never have 464 issues😞. Thanks for this post. I can get some of my frustrations out:) Maybe they don’t check or test so they don’t know? Most people never do test, or test a first burn on a fresh candle then never test again ever. 444 was a nightmare for me and many of my pro maker colleagues. Lot to lot differences made one case seem fine with pretty tops and no burn issues. Then the next lot would not even burn. I got legit wet cases of wax. Got powdery dry cars of wax. We can’t run businesses this way. Lots after November 2016 were the worst. We would fill sink holes then look again and they reappeared like magical black holes. We would fill 3,4 sometimes 5 times. even with paraffin, coconut, etc blends they would develop massive sink holes. As I watched those groups I would anonymously buy their candles to see for myself. Now I don’t believe what people write on FB groups 😘 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soy-N-Suds Posted December 27, 2021 Share Posted December 27, 2021 (edited) On 12/7/2021 at 2:44 PM, RichardLOZ said: /Begin Rant I was fliting around FB yesterday and managed to join about 5 or 6 Australian Candle making groups, and just reading some of the comments was quite concerning! People who have never made a candle before, looking to start with Woodwicks, people chasing scents that are not available from their usual supplier for an order they have, wondering if that same scent is available from an alternate supplier, not considering that perhaps it may also be a different formulation and will need to be tested. People doing pillar candles in Vanilla and wondering why the colour is not white, then remake it only to find the same issue, then remake it again in a different scent to ensure it is white - no consultation with the customer, not testing the new scent, as typically vanilla does need wicking up, so if they used the same wick for their alternate scent...... Edited December 27, 2021 by Soy-N-Suds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soy-N-Suds Posted December 27, 2021 Share Posted December 27, 2021 Be careful trying to help they usually get mad if you try to give advice. I have 21 years of candle making and learned by trial and error. I've thought sharing would spare others mistakes I've made but it didn't work that way. 🤷♀️ 4 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardLOZ Posted December 27, 2021 Author Share Posted December 27, 2021 3 hours ago, Soy-N-Suds said: Be careful trying to help they usually get mad if you try to give advice. I have 21 years of candle making and learned by trial and error. I've thought sharing would spare others mistakes I've made but it didn't work that way. 🤷♀️ I certainly here you on that point. I will usually just comment particularly if no one else has answered their question and leave it at that. I have people come after my comment and totally contradict, but I just cannot be bothered going there - I do not need the drama 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lizzy Posted December 31, 2021 Share Posted December 31, 2021 On 12/26/2021 at 9:16 PM, Soy-N-Suds said: Be careful trying to help they usually get mad if you try to give advice. I have 21 years of candle making and learned by trial and error. I've thought sharing would spare others mistakes I've made but it didn't work that way. 🤷♀️ Funny how that works out, eh? LOL It amazes me that someone who literally is still a newbie will argue with someone who is well educated in candlemaking. You can't argue with those who are unwilling to learn and think they already know it all. I've been making candles for close to 20 years and truth be told...I am STILL learning even with the experience I've collected over these last 20 years. The learning NEVER stops. But to me that is the fun part of it all. I also learned to leave those who think they know it all to their own devices. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bfroberts Posted December 31, 2021 Share Posted December 31, 2021 The FB groups irritate me so I joined a couple of “professional candle maker” groups. They aren’t much better. An unbelievable amount of “why did my candle do this?” questions regarding excessive soot, broken containers, tunneling, etc. My favorite comments are the “I am too busy for all that testing” when asked if they tested a new case/FO/wick/whatever. That one is especially fun when combined with “why did my candle do this?” 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallTayl Posted December 31, 2021 Share Posted December 31, 2021 1 hour ago, bfroberts said: The FB groups irritate me so I joined a couple of “professional candle maker” groups. They aren’t much better. An unbelievable amount of “why did my candle do this?” questions regarding excessive soot, broken containers, tunneling, etc. My favorite comments are the “I am too busy for all that testing” when asked if they tested a new case/FO/wick/whatever. That one is especially fun when combined with “why did my candle do this?” The cognitive dissonance is frustrating. Isn’t cheaper to test than to refund or deal with complaints? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bfroberts Posted December 31, 2021 Share Posted December 31, 2021 1 hour ago, TallTayl said: The cognitive dissonance is frustrating. Isn’t cheaper to test than to refund or deal with complaints? You’d think. Plus so much better for morale. 🤷♀️ 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardLOZ Posted January 3, 2022 Author Share Posted January 3, 2022 Yes but unfortunately due to COVID lockdowns, everyone things they are now an expert chandler and are out to make a million or two....... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallTayl Posted January 3, 2022 Share Posted January 3, 2022 13 minutes ago, RichardLOZ said: Yes but unfortunately due to COVID lockdowns, everyone things they are now an expert chandler and are out to make a million or two....... If the kid who started “mancan candles” can do it, I guess anyone can? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardLOZ Posted January 3, 2022 Author Share Posted January 3, 2022 5 hours ago, TallTayl said: If the kid who started “mancan candles” can do it, I guess anyone can? I guess so 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lizzy Posted January 3, 2022 Share Posted January 3, 2022 On 12/31/2021 at 12:05 PM, bfroberts said: The FB groups irritate me so I joined a couple of “professional candle maker” groups. They aren’t much better. An unbelievable amount of “why did my candle do this?” questions regarding excessive soot, broken containers, tunneling, etc. My favorite comments are the “I am too busy for all that testing” when asked if they tested a new case/FO/wick/whatever. That one is especially fun when combined with “why did my candle do this?” "too busy for all that testing" has got to be the MOST ignorant, careless and plain selfish statement ever! Blows my mind!! Whoever thinks they're "too busy" for testing shouldn't even be in this business! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardLOZ Posted January 3, 2022 Author Share Posted January 3, 2022 10 hours ago, Lizzy said: "too busy for all that testing" has got to be the MOST ignorant, careless and plain selfish statement ever! Blows my mind!! Whoever thinks they're "too busy" for testing shouldn't even be in this business! Will they still be too busy if what they made contributes to burning someone's house down........ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lizzy Posted January 4, 2022 Share Posted January 4, 2022 12 hours ago, RichardLOZ said: Will they still be too busy if what they made contributes to burning someone's house down........ exactly! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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