lovelyscents Posted October 15, 2021 Share Posted October 15, 2021 to get something consistent. Is there ANY consistent wax out there anymore? I have gone through tons and still cannot seem to settle on one. I get these crazy ideas to custom blend but then I struggle with wicking and go back to square one since my "bright idea" blends are exclusive to me. It seems the more who use the same blend, the more help troubleshooting and bouncing ideas off one another we get. I do not care at this point if its mottling, soy, paraffin, coconut, etc., I am willing to try it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightLight Posted October 15, 2021 Share Posted October 15, 2021 I recently tried a sample wax, loved it. Went to try another sample box, and guess what COMPLETELY different. I called the company and said something is wrong with this second one! I am positive whomever was making sample boxes used wax from another box by accident as the wax I had was dramatically different. I had to argue my case with the company I have worked with a very long time to get another box to retest. So the outcome will be yes sample waxes were mixed up, or the wax formula had changed 300%! I feel your pain 🥲 Was testing wax over the summer, the supply chain was so bad I couldn’t get wax for a blend I was testing and had to switch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErronB Posted October 16, 2021 Share Posted October 16, 2021 Every single wax I’ve been using lately, 4 of them, have all been different from lot to lot. There is no consistency anymore, and the manufacturers don’t care. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallTayl Posted October 16, 2021 Share Posted October 16, 2021 I feel your pain. The one good thing that comes out of spotty supply chain issues is knowledge of how to fix whatever janky wax you get. The more you know about blending and additives, etc, the easier it is to make due. a wide range collection of wicks helps quite a lot too. so, I guess, decide what wax type you want to use, then we can go from there. Are you a soy person, paraffin, beeswax, coconut? Example, if you want to stick with soy, I’ve made some nice candles with midwest soy wax blended with beeswax. Once you understand the fickleness of MW soy, it works fine. Downside is It takes FOREVER to cure them for a nice HT and burn but they end up being nice in the long run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moonshine Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 This exactly! I have been on hiatus since the changes in soy I don’t even know many years ago now….went to coco and LOVED what I came up with all excited to start selling again to find out that particular coco doesn’t exist anymore 🤷♀️ ok….back to another coco and some apricot and some soy blends - many additives and every single time I get something I like or even love it comes in different next time around All these pre-sales that went on with this covid issue I stocked up - but it’s not enough to run with for more than a year or 2 and even less if I do start selling again…. it totally blows, I feel the pain to If 1 single supplier could accomplish consistency in what they sell it would be a miracle - I’ve often wondered about candlewic blends seeing they make their own and the sad thing is I bought them all when soy took a crap but then fell in love with easy beads and gave all that CW away 🤦♀️🤦♀️ Never tested or tried it I was so excited when cal candle announced pre sale of coconut beads limit 2 cases…..only to be shocked once again- this stuff is absolutely NOTHING like the original easy beads….it’s awful, yes I made it work in a couple different blends but it’s disgusting to work with, serious sink holes no matter the temp you pour and I find it kinda odd they haven’t ever offered this form again that I’m aware of…🤷♀️ If your a coco person definitely look into this s&p 487 to blend - like TT said Midwest and bees is a nice blend also of you like soy and don’t mind a long cure time palms seem to be the most consistent out there imo ….I’m thinking about just trying it straight up again if I can get around the wicking issues in slightly wider jars that I have (palm likes tall and skinny) ….another issue that is never ending - finding glass in stock apricot had been pretty consistent in my tests except I think I just read somewhere on here that is now coming in different Palm stearic- beeswax- 487- universal soy additive can all be your friend right now to help slap some waxes into decent behavior along with wicking completely different from what you would normally think 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightLight Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 Agree with additives helping the waxes, but it’s insane. First fragrances. Candle Science going nuts changing fragrances all the time. Wax blends changing, and I got sent the wrong wax and had to fight to get it corrected. Gah! Had a great blend with special order additive from Cargill, then they stopped producing it back to the beginning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovelyscents Posted October 17, 2021 Author Share Posted October 17, 2021 (edited) Exactly what I was afraid to hear. I may venture back into considering mottling or palm. I love the appearance of both, how it takes color, and the hardness for warmer temps. However, I am not used to repours or too good at convincing customers mine are not toxic compared to the abundance of soy that surrounds my town. Even my melts get questioned and I continuously have to repeat myself that a "natural" soy bean is no longer natural once processed, a fruit loop scent is not natural, and essential oils aren't good to burn with direct flame. 🤦♀️ As far as palm, did not have too much luck in the HT department but may have not given enough time to cure, etc. I was underwhelmed by the palm melts I tested as well. Also, may have a hard time selling palm candles when I am working on a palm free CP soap recipe. 🤦♀️ Edited October 17, 2021 by lovelyscents Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallTayl Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 Palm blends are probably the most consistent around. Each type is made from a specific fraction of the palm oil. It does not go through inconsistent hydrogenation like veg oils which eliminates a variable. ht can be amazing or nil depending on the fragrance and wick combo. I have had a suffocatingly strong tea light at 2% FO, so I know strong HT is possible, just need to develop the patience to coax it out by learning the right balance. I think the first trick is not flooding with fragrance. 🤷🏻♀️ Most palm only holds 3-5% fo. Adding more defeats the strengths of palm. the biggest issue with palm seems to have been the attack campaign against palm products along side CandleScience dropping it like a hot potato overnight a few years back. People who don’t like palm won’t be your customers. More customers don’t care if it is palm as long as it’s not paraffin than specifically hate palm, so there’s hope. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moonshine Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 3 hours ago, lovelyscents said: Exactly what I was afraid to hear. I may venture back into considering mottling or palm. I love the appearance of both, how it takes color, and the hardness for warmer temps. However, I am not used to repours or too good at convincing customers mine are not toxic compared to the abundance of soy that surrounds my town. Even my melts get questioned and I continuously have to repeat myself that a "natural" soy bean is no longer natural once processed, a fruit loop scent is not natural, and essential oils aren't good to burn with direct flame. 🤦♀️ As far as palm, did not have too much luck in the HT department but may have not given enough time to cure, etc. I was underwhelmed by the palm melts I tested as well. Also, may have a hard time selling palm candles when I am working on a palm free CP soap recipe. 🤦♀️ Put on your label you didn’t chop a rainforest down 😂 depending on your container you shouldn’t have to do a repour with palm if you learn the flip method for air pockets - it’s scary at first but you learn when it’s too early….ask me how I know the limited palm experience I have is excellent throw with either csn or rrd wicks- now the rrd are directional so you have to pay attention when wicking from a spool- ask me how I know that 😂 I’m burning 2 palm pillars right now and they are under wicked but there is no getting these wicks out now- they are several years old, that wick is stuck with the hardness of palm but I’m smelling them nice and don’t have to worry about a blow out 🤷♀️😂 I know csn is no longer available but if you have an interest in pillars at all or tall 3” diameter jars I have a ton of csn 11 to sell off Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moonshine Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 3 hours ago, NightLight said: Agree with additives helping the waxes, but it’s insane. First fragrances. Candle Science going nuts changing fragrances all the time. Wax blends changing, and I got sent the wrong wax and had to fight to get it corrected. Gah! Had a great blend with special order additive from Cargill, then they stopped producing it back to the beginning. When you find something good these days you almost need to buy it by the pallets same lot if possible I don’t candle make to sell anymore I candle make to test- test- test because by the time I have a winner I can’t replicate it if I don’t have the exact same material 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moonshine Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, TallTayl said: Palm blends are probably the most consistent around. Each type is made from a specific fraction of the palm oil. It does not go through inconsistent hydrogenation like veg oils which eliminates a variable. ht can be amazing or nil depending on the fragrance and wick combo. I have had a suffocatingly strong tea light at 2% FO, so I know strong HT is possible, just need to develop the patience to coax it out by learning the right balance. I think the first trick is not flooding with fragrance. 🤷🏻♀️ Most palm only holds 3-5% fo. Adding more defeats the strengths of palm. the biggest issue with palm seems to have been the attack campaign against palm products along side CandleScience dropping it like a hot potato overnight a few years back. People who don’t like palm won’t be your customers. More customers don’t care if it is palm as long as it’s not paraffin than specifically hate palm, so there’s hope. And the attack campaign had nothing to do with toxicity of palm like the paraffin attack correct? It was all about the tree hugging save the rainforest protests dont get me wrong I care about the environment very much but palm is supposed to be responsibly sourced now….well thats what they say anyways….well let’s see here 🤔 suppliers statements….can we trust them anymore 🤷♀️🙈🤦♀️😂🥺😵💫 Edited October 17, 2021 by moonshine 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovelyscents Posted October 21, 2021 Author Share Posted October 21, 2021 The appearance of palm is so beautiful, takes color well, hard, and I love the flip method with no repours. Not to mention, I like standing out against all the lifeless white soy wax that surrounds me. Don't get me wrong, I actually dislike using liquid colors because of the smell OOB and it stains EVERYTHING. Therefore, I will likely do a creamy, colorless wax in amber jars. However, in clear glass, the colors really give character to a certain scent and allow the palm to show its true beauty. Ugh, I just sold my CW container palm. I may have to pick up some glass glow or visit CW again LOL. Maybe I was indeed adding too much FO. If CSN is no longer available and that leaves RRD, does that limit the best burning / throw capabilities palm has to offer with the ideal wick or just makes things easier? 😂 Do you think palm is harder to source than paraffin in the long-run? I am considering mottling wax too. If I do colored palm in clear glass and creamy colorless wax in amber jars, I would be able to make CP with or without palm and not look hypocritical in that retrospect. I personally do not have anything against palm. It is probably because I am not a Karen to any wax or those who prefer to use what they love. I am quite good defending against 100% soy when people ask what I use and I tell them it's a blend. I do not mind the minor confrontation to stand behind my product that I know is well tested and of great quality. They can move along to the gazillion other booths for soy if they are truly brainwashed that their cotton candy candle is "natural". 🤷♀️ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovelyscents Posted October 21, 2021 Author Share Posted October 21, 2021 I meant to also ask, has anyone ever used any other wicks other than just CSN and RRD with palm? I have even seen some around with wood that seem to get good reviews. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallTayl Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 2 hours ago, lovelyscents said: I meant to also ask, has anyone ever used any other wicks other than just CSN and RRD with palm? I have even seen some around with wood that seem to get good reviews. The v series wicks see to be a nice option if you can get them. https://candle-shack.co.uk/products/v-series-wick I’ve used cottonwood somewhat successfully, and have burned some made successfully with eco. wood wicks can work, though be super careful with sizing. I overwicked one and it caught fire. Scared me to death when the jar exploded and left the table scorched. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovelyscents Posted October 21, 2021 Author Share Posted October 21, 2021 8 hours ago, TallTayl said: The v series wicks see to be a nice option if you can get them. https://candle-shack.co.uk/products/v-series-wick Are these only available from the UK? 8 hours ago, TallTayl said: I’ve used cottonwood somewhat successfully, and have burned some made successfully with eco. Cottonwood seems to be discontinued from Northwood and Northstar, shucks! I do have some Ecos here I can try. Wick testing palm isn't the easiest with how hard the wax is but I'm willing to consider giving it another try. I'll have to get the hubby's drill out haha. 8 hours ago, TallTayl said: wood wicks can work, though be super careful with sizing. I overwicked one and it caught fire. Scared me to death when the jar exploded and left the table scorched. Oh wow, yes don't want that. Do you think it's due to the hardness of the wax? Like maybe the wood struggles to burn it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallTayl Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 1 hour ago, lovelyscents said: Oh wow, yes don't want that. Do you think it's due to the hardness of the wax? Like maybe the wood struggles to burn it? Once the palm got going it kept getting easier and easier to burn with the wood. The wick fed the palm fuel almost too efficiently and it took off. I never went back to testing it since the flames were so out of control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovelyscents Posted October 21, 2021 Author Share Posted October 21, 2021 Good to know. Thank you! Are there certain types of fragrances that only do well in it, like soy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallTayl Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 26 minutes ago, lovelyscents said: Good to know. Thank you! Are there certain types of fragrances that only do well in it, like soy? Generally speaking no 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallTayl Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 The biggest down side to palm is lower CT than other waxes. HT can beat the pants off any other wax when you figure out your wicking, but if people go by strength of CT alone when choosing a candle, then it is a little bit of a battle. I’m sure with scent in the lid we can make up for the CT. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovelyscents Posted October 21, 2021 Author Share Posted October 21, 2021 2 hours ago, TallTayl said: The biggest down side to palm is lower CT than other waxes. HT can beat the pants off any other wax when you figure out your wicking, but if people go by strength of CT alone when choosing a candle, then it is a little bit of a battle. I’m sure with scent in the lid we can make up for the CT. I was just mentioning the lack of CT to another member, so it's funny you said this lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovelyscents Posted October 29, 2021 Author Share Posted October 29, 2021 On 10/21/2021 at 2:13 PM, TallTayl said: The biggest down side to palm is lower CT than other waxes. HT can beat the pants off any other wax when you figure out your wicking, but if people go by strength of CT alone when choosing a candle, then it is a little bit of a battle. I’m sure with scent in the lid we can make up for the CT. Do you know a good starting point for rrd or eco in a 9oz straight jar or 12oz mason? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallTayl Posted October 30, 2021 Share Posted October 30, 2021 53 minutes ago, lovelyscents said: Do you know a good starting point for rrd or eco in a 9oz straight jar or 12oz mason? I’m sorry I don’t. Never liked RRD so I stopped testing them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovelyscents Posted October 30, 2021 Author Share Posted October 30, 2021 1 minute ago, TallTayl said: I’m sorry I don’t. Never liked RRD so I stopped testing them. Shucks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovelyscents Posted October 30, 2021 Author Share Posted October 30, 2021 I will give Ecos a shot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moonshine Posted October 30, 2021 Share Posted October 30, 2021 3 hours ago, lovelyscents said: Do you know a good starting point for rrd or eco in a 9oz straight jar or 12oz mason? For container palm? 9 ounce jar I would start with a RRD 37 eco I’m not sure but maybe a 4 for a 9 ounce jar 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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