Cocosoy vs 464?

[ellajoan]

I have been feeling growing disappointment w/ 464 and/or other soy over the years.  I just feel like I want something that throws much stronger, but my market tends to be an "all natural" one.  To those who have used 464 and/or C3 and are now working with cocosoy, is the HT THAT much better?  Is the wicking a pure nightmare, or can something like a CD, Premier, or HTP suffice?  

 

Basically, I'm asking is this a road I want to go down?  Looking at ALL of the different "new" blends that are out there--coco83, EC26, new blend from Aztec, etc.  

[TallTayl]

2 hours ago, ellajoan said:

I have been feeling growing disappointment w/ 464 and/or other soy over the years.  I just feel like I want something that throws much stronger, but my market tends to be an "all natural" one.  To those who have used 464 and/or C3 and are now working with cocosoy, is the HT THAT much better?  Is the wicking a pure nightmare, or can something like a CD, Premier, or HTP suffice?  

 

Basically, I'm asking is this a road I want to go down?  Looking at ALL of the different "new" blends that are out there--coco83, EC26, new blend from Aztec, etc.  

These are the same questions I asked myself, and with a lot of learning curve, curse words and tears I finally freed myself from the shackles of soy. Having last year off from Faire allowed this break to heal over and feel much better. I 100% prefer my coco blends to any soy I ever made. It took a good year to get to this point, though. Lots of fails, just like with soy.

 

The problem with ALL coconut blends is supply. Coco83, for instance, is routinely OOS for weeks to months at a time, and when it comes back it can be very different from the last lot.  Just like soy, you need to roll the dice and get as many new cases as possible to adjust for wicking issues caused by the differences. 

 

 Accublend and CalWax were the pioneers and have existing orders 12+ weeks out and are not accepting new pallet clients. IGI has a few that I tried and was not happy with. I've blended my own with a decent degree of success, but still am missing something to keep it heat and humidity stable.

 

There are as many coco blends as soy now, it seems. All seem to be best blended with something else. 

 

If you have the time, mind space and energy to learn a new wax you may be super happy to be rid of soy too. 

[ellajoan]

Thanks for always responding TallTayl!  I post to be on these boards sporadically, but I'm always making candles and researching.  And then I have a million questions and post all at once!

 

Would you say that cocosoy is easier as far as getting pour temps "just so" and stirring constantly, and clean up?   I feel like we have to practically do encantations to get smooth tops and decent HT, and even then those are completely hit or miss.   I do worry about price, too, and how that might drive my candle costs up.  We have a nice  little following in our area, and I'd hate to raise prices again (we just did).  I'd love to try coconut /soy blend w/ either palm or beeswax, but have NO idea where to start wicking.

[TallTayl]

5 hours ago, ellajoan said:

Thanks for always responding TallTayl!  I post to be on these boards sporadically, but I'm always making candles and researching.  And then I have a million questions and post all at once!

 

Would you say that cocosoy is easier as far as getting pour temps "just so" and stirring constantly, and clean up?   I feel like we have to practically do encantations to get smooth tops and decent HT, and even then those are completely hit or miss.   I do worry about price, too, and how that might drive my candle costs up.  We have a nice  little following in our area, and I'd hate to raise prices again (we just did).  I'd love to try coconut /soy blend w/ either palm or beeswax, but have NO idea where to start wicking.

With my current choices of Coconut Blends it’s no sweat to pour (unless a batch goes crappy from the manufacturer and like what just happened from accublend) ha ha.
 

But it is overall still easier than Soy.
 

Cost of soy has gone up too so raising my candle prices by a dollar more than covers it.
 

And it’s definitely worth the peace of mind.

 

You know I was using C1. That varied an awful lot. And has become scarce with the palm shortages. I think I wanna take a year off LOL

[ellajoan]

Thank TT.  I do really like the C1 also, but my wick is suddenly harder to find and my chandling partner HATES babysitting/constant stirring on the quick cool shelf.  She really doesn't want to use it (save for a few candles it throws ridiculously well in) for our main wax.  But I really want a better HT!!!

 

Excited to venture into cocosoy world.......I think.....

[ErronB]

If you're comparing 464 to EC26, then EC26 blows it out the park in every way possible, but you're really paying for it cost-wise.

 

I don't think the hot throw is anything to write home about but it's still decent and burns pretty clean, it doesn't need a long cure time and it pours very nice with no effort. Wicking it I used to use Eco and CD. Some of the small sizes, not even close to what 464 uses. It does have a small amount of food grade paraffin, and so does the other calwax blend the Ceda Serica (coconut apricot). I would say try some Coco83 or something if you had to go all natural but after seeing some batches lately I'd be scared of getting some crap wax, it's not cheap.

 

Coconut is definitely a world worth venturing into with the state of soy right now, especially 464, it's downright terrible. I tried a small bag from CandleScience not long ago just to see if it's any different lately but it was just as bad as when it first turned crappy a few years back.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[TallTayl]

A bunch of us need to band together and just buy pallets of a wax. Create our own supply co-op to weather all this. If only calwax would take us on.  I waited too long. 

[ErronB]

12 hours ago, TallTayl said:

A bunch of us need to band together and just buy pallets of a wax. Relate our own supply of-op to weather all this. If only calwax would take us on.  I waited too long. 

If the shortage problems keep happening then yeah that’s probably the way to go about it.

 

I actually tried some of Calwax’s latest lot of Ceda Serica, I’m impressed. The annoying thing is they just raised their price again to suppliers. I don’t know if it’s quite worth it.

[TallTayl]

1 hour ago, ErronB said:

If the shortage problems keep happening then yeah that’s probably the way to go about it.

 

I actually tried some of Calwax’s latest lot of Ceda Serica, I’m impressed. The annoying thing is they just raised their price again to suppliers. I don’t know if it’s quite worth it.

Yeah it went up $0.50 per pound on a full pallet. Worth it if it is usable and we have it when we need it. I like ceda cerica to work with. Pours like a dream. If you can find a compatible wick series it is a champ. 
 

the last coco 83 from feb is frustrating. It is thick and cools/hardens are much higher temps so it creates giant cavities that need about an Oz of wax to fill.  

[BusyBee]

On 3/16/2021 at 8:35 AM, ellajoan said:

I have been feeling growing disappointment w/ 464 and/or other soy over the years.  I just feel like I want something that throws much stronger, but my market tends to be an "all natural" one.  To those who have used 464 and/or C3 and are now working with cocosoy, is the HT THAT much better?  Is the wicking a pure nightmare, or can something like a CD, Premier, or HTP suffice?  

 

Basically, I'm asking is this a road I want to go down?  Looking at ALL of the different "new" blends that are out there--coco83, EC26, new blend from Aztec, etc.  

I find that Coco83 HT is a lot stronger than 464 or even Ceda Serica.  However, you can make 464 HT stronger(as good as Coco83) by adding little bit of palm wax (around 5%) and by using big size Helix wicks.  *I haven't tried WICK IT's Superior 800's wick, but I have feeling that it would work well with 464/palm blend also.