Wooden wick dimming out...why?

[Gladys]

So I was finally able to wick this 4” diameter container. I use .02 .250” (three of them) and they burn great, and great HT. But after 2 hours they start to dim out. Almost putting themselves out. There’s no tunneling, the wick isn’t long so I don’t understand. 

[ErronB]

On 1/25/2021 at 3:18 PM, Gladys said:

So I was finally able to wick this 4” diameter container. I use .02 .250” (three of them) and they burn great, and great HT. But after 2 hours they start to dim out. Almost putting themselves out. There’s no tunneling, the wick isn’t long so I don’t understand. 

Welcome to wooden wicks. There is nothing I can tell you that will fix it because they are all totally unpredictable, but the 0.02 will always be the worst of the bunch. Try either the .02 booster or .03 in slimmer widths.

[ComfortandJoy]

Concurring with what @ErronB said.

 

I tried getting wood wicks to work in my candles for more than 3 years.  I used all kinds of wax blends, but no matter what I tried, they never performed consistently enough to make me confident enough to sell.  I tried all of the wick varieties by Wooden Wick Co. I have come to the conclusion that wood wicks are inherently inconsistent by nature.  There were other wood wicks from years ago that were formed with a homogenized mixture of wood and binding material.  I hear they worked well.  Sad they are no longer available.

 

I've switched to regular cotton type wicks and I'm finally achieving much more consistent results.

 

 

[TallTayl]

Wooden wicks come in different woods also.  Some are more porous than others.  
 

in the end, wooden wicks are what they are,love them or hate them.  I have not had any confidence releasing any wooden wick candles into the wild. one wick in a pack will drown the the one next out of the bag will flare in the same pour. 🤷🏻‍♀️🤦🏻‍♀️

[ComfortandJoy]

5 hours ago, TallTayl said:

Wooden wicks come in different woods also.  Some are more porous than others.  
 

in the end, wooden wicks are what they are,love them or hate them.  I have not had any confidence releasing any wooden wick candles into the wild. one wick in a pack will drown the the one next out of the bag will flare in the same pour. 🤷🏻‍♀️🤦🏻‍♀️

Yep!  This happened to me on more than one occasion.

[ErronB]

12 hours ago, ComfortandJoy said:

Concurring with what @ErronB said.

 

I tried getting wood wicks to work in my candles for more than 3 years.  I used all kinds of wax blends, but no matter what I tried, they never performed consistently enough to make me confident enough to sell.  I tried all of the wick varieties by Wooden Wick Co. I have come to the conclusion that wood wicks are inherently inconsistent by nature.  There were other wood wicks from years ago that were formed with a homogenized mixture of wood and binding material.  I hear they worked well.  Sad they are no longer available.

 

I've switched to regular cotton type wicks and I'm finally achieving much more consistent results.

 

 

Yep I know that story too well, I tried literally everything for over a whole year to make the wooden wick co stuff burn consistent and nothing came of it, it’s hot garbage. I really miss those old ones, it was very rare that I’d have a problem with them.

[TallTayl]

9 hours ago, ErronB said:

Yep I know that story too well, I tried literally everything for over a whole year to make the wooden wick co stuff burn consistent and nothing came of it, it’s hot garbage. I really miss those old ones, it was very rare that I’d have a problem with them.

I am so curious what the binder was on those ultimate WW.

 

and why did they go out of production? 

[ErronB]

5 hours ago, TallTayl said:

I am so curious what the binder was on those ultimate WW.

 

and why did they go out of production? 

I have no idea what they were made from, they were interesting for sure. The only logical explanation I can think of as to why they completely disappeared from the market is The WW Co probably threatened them with their patents. It might not even be true, but I can't think of any other reason that something so superior would just vanish.

[BusyBee]

On 1/25/2021 at 12:18 PM, Gladys said:

So I was finally able to wick this 4” diameter container. I use .02 .250” (three of them) and they burn great, and great HT. But after 2 hours they start to dim out. Almost putting themselves out. There’s no tunneling, the wick isn’t long so I don’t understand. 

Many candle makers have failed with wooden wick experiment including myself.  So, let's not talk about what we can do and/or not with that wick. 

 

Let's take a look at the most successful candle company that is using wooden wicks, which would be WoodWick Candle.  Many of their candles would burn great, but they have a lot of problems also.  Below pictures are the ones with problems.

 

1. This one would not lit up from the start.

 

2. This one is dying out when it burned down to middle of container.

 

3.  Flare up from the start

 

4.  Burning good, but excessive soot.  (soot build up on container)

 

5.  Melt pool is too deep.  Container will be too hot.

 

6.  I have no idea what had happened to this one.

 

7.  This one has nothing to do with wooden wick.  This one show problem of shipping candles during hot summer days.

 

Even company as big as WoodWick Candle has not figured out wooden wick reliability issue & candle melting in hot weather.  If they can even figure this out, then how could a small guys like us? 

 

But it shows that you can build your candle empire as big as them using wooden wicks without having a perfect products.  Not only that, it shows it is okay to have lots of defected wicks like them and be successful.

 

*You might argue that this is different wooden wick.  Trust us!  We have tried every wooden wicks out there.  Many even tried to make their own wooden wicks using different woods.  They all behave in similar way.

 

Good luck with your wooden wick experiment!  Just don't expect perfection from that wick.  Let us know if you ever find the best solution!

 

[Gladys]

Busybee, thank you again for the response. I completely agree. I honestly didn’t want to give up because I kept thinking, how do others sell wooden wicked candles? I must be doing something wrong. But I think that I’m just about done.  I’ve been able to wick one of my jars with the wood wick but the double wick jar I cannot. And now I feel that it’s okay. I don’t need to only have wooden wicked candles. I started testing cotton wicks and will use those as well. I can’t make everything work. 
 

how can I possibly sell something that is so inconsistent? I don’t think that’s safe. I have almost every wick that the wooden wick co. sells and I’m just over it. These damn wooden wicks have cause me so much stress and self doubt  that it’s not even worth it. Like i said, o don’t need to have wooden wicks. My heart wasn’t set on them. They’re diff yes, but not over the top better than cotton so I’ll be doing more testing with cotton wicks. I won’t give up on those either lol 

 

ive been using problend 600 so hopefully I find something that works. 
 

thank you everyone for all the input. 🥰🥰🥰🥰🥰🥰
 

[BusyBee]

@Gladys

I was thinking the same thing when I was playing with wooden wicks.  That is why I showed you how WoodWick Candle Company is doing with their candles.  

 

Don't ever totally give it up on wooden wicks.  I had the best HT using wooden wicks on my GW 464 wax candle.  All other wicks cannot produce HT like wooden wick did in GW 464.  And one of the best candle I have ever seen was WoodWick Candle, that is if it stayed lit (see picture below).  I have pulled that wick out and tried it in my 464 candle.  It was a beautiful candle also.  So, keep your eyes on them for someday when someone might come out with very reliable one!

 

If you are new to candle making, then you might want to go to Atkins & Pearce's (wick manufacturer) website.  They show pictures of their wick structures.  That should give you idea how a wick is structured.  By looking at those, you can kind of imagine on how wooden wick structure would be.  When you think about wick structure, then it will give you the answer to why wooden wicks are unreliable.  

*For me, learning about wicks were the hardest part of candle developing.

 

Have fun on your candle making journey and be creative!  Wish you a best!

[ComfortandJoy]

On 1/28/2021 at 12:12 AM, ErronB said:

Yep I know that story too well, I tried literally everything for over a whole year to make the wooden wick co stuff burn consistent and nothing came of it, it’s hot garbage. I really miss those old ones, it was very rare that I’d have a problem with them.

I can't believe I held on for so long.  😑

[ErronB]

1 hour ago, ComfortandJoy said:

I can't believe I held on for so long.  😑

I thought I ‘had it just right’ on so many occasions, then I’d make more exactly the same and it would all go to hell again. It was the most depressing candle testing experience I ever had. Even worse than when I was a noob with 6006 and wondering why my candles weren’t great after following Jeff Standley’s videos, I thought that was bad, but this was just something else.

[BusyBee]

Papers are made out of trees, and they burn better than any other materials in candles.  1st picture is cardboard box paper, 2nd is regular copy paper & 3rd one is cereal box.  Biggest problem with these?  They will produce strong paper burning smell when they burn.  Then there are soot and terrible after glow issues to deal with.  Is there odorless burning paper on earth?

 

Yes, there is!  This is paper wick is made out of odorless burning paper.  This is one of the way to make wooden wick better (getting the fibers out of tree), and I am very confident that there are other ways too.

 

 

[TallTayl]

@BusyBee do those tend to burn with comparable temps to traditional wicks?

 

i imagine they are self trimming. 
 

cardboard and chipboard use different glues and binders. The odor is not surprising. We use them to start fire stacks on the little farm. When the brush is wet I add old candle wax from the many, oh so many, failed candles. 

[BusyBee]

9 hours ago, TallTayl said:

@BusyBee do those tend to burn with comparable temps to traditional wicks?

 

i imagine they are self trimming. 
 

cardboard and chipboard use different glues and binders. The odor is not surprising. We use them to start fire stacks on the little farm. When the brush is wet I add old candle wax from the many, oh so many, failed candles. 

Melt pool temperature drops down 5F to 123F when I use this wick while I get 128F melt pool temperature using regular wicks for GB 464.  Air current from this wick is weaker than traditional wicks.  But somehow, I get faster and wider melt pool using this wick with cooler temperature.  Maybe it is due to wider flame?  This is I have been keep on saying "wider but cooler flame" in other posts.

 

It is self trimming only while it is burning.  Once it is lit up, I would not have to worry about trimming.  But wick must to be trimmed for re-lighting (Wax shrinks down when melted wax hardens.).  I found that different waxes need different paper layers.  I only have 4 layer wick.  I am hoping that different layers for different waxes [3 for coconut, 3 for paraffin, 7 for soy, & 4 for soy blend (*All except 6006)] would solve this issue.  Or I might have to adjust thickness of each paper for better result.  Above 4 layer wick is 100% self trimming in WoodWick Candle only, and I hope to achieve same thing for other waxes.

 

I have been burning many types of woods, papers & fabrics to burning test of odor, ignition, burning rate, and after glow.  And I find that this paper is one of the best.  It is paper hand made by using old paper making technic invented 1600 to 1800 years ago (no chemical).  That is why it is so expensive.  I would have never imagined that I would need to research on paper history for candle making.  Finding odorless natural glue to put these papers together was another thing.  I have to say candle making is full of surprises. 

[moomin3]

On 2/6/2021 at 3:21 PM, TallTayl said:

cardboard and chipboard use different glues and binders. The odor is not surprising. We use them to start fire stacks on the little farm. When the brush is wet I add old candle wax from the many, oh so many, failed candles. 

I'm a friend to anyone who has a bonfire - I come prepared with many, many homemade firestarter bundles from aforementioned failed candles!!!! 😆

[TallTayl]

40 minutes ago, moomin3 said:

I'm a friend to anyone who has a bonfire - I come prepared with many, many homemade firestarter bundles from aforementioned failed candles!!!! 😆

They make great natural wooden wick candles, don’t they? 

[Gladys]

I always compare my wooden wicked candles to blow torches lol

[CandleNoob]

I know this is an older thread BUT, I am new to candle making and have been experimenting with homemade balsa wood wicks with some degree of success.  Ms BusyBee made a post early last year that appeared to reference flat paper wicks as an alternative to wooden wicks.  Numerous searches revealed nothing on the subject so I'm at a loss.  I may be confused so ANY information on the matter would be appreciated.

 

TIA,

 

patriot

[NightLight]

Just saw this. Love the paper wick idea.   Busybee is on to something!

[BusyBee]

@CandleNoob

Here is answers to your question on scratching marks on wooden wick.

 

The main reason why wooden wick will dimming out would be interruption in capillary action due to inconsistency of wood density.  I had picked Balsa as the best wooden wick material too, but it would have the same problem as other woods.

 

There are ways to improve capillary action of wooden wick.  Someone suggested long time ago that hammering down the wood wick to loosen the fibers in woods which I think is one of the bright idea.  Boiling wooden wick in oil was good.  Coating the wood with other materials to improve external capillary action is another good idea.  Scratching to create shallow cut or mark on wooden wick would increase capillary action also.  Below picture is the one that was dimming out before I scratched wooden wick with many lines.  You should be able to see lines in the picture which the melted wax will flow upward through that tiny gap into the flame.  Even with these improvement, the inconsistency of wooden wick was too much to handle like flare up and many other little problems!

 

Whether it's natural fiber wick or wooden wick, I believe there are several ways to make it work better than what is available on the market.  I guess we just need little creative thinking thus came paper wick.  I am just experimenting! 😉

 

[Mythreindeer]

Do you think, or have you looked into whether Lumetique's patents cover paper wicks as well as wood, seeing as how they may be considered similar?

 

As an aside, and I'm assuming Wooden Wick/Makesy licenses from Lumetique, that Lumetique allows such a relatively poor product to be sold under it's patents though I suppose licensing fees are still income. Personally, I wont buy from the company that has become Makesy.

[BusyBee]

3 hours ago, Mythreindeer said:

Do you think, or have you looked into whether Lumetique's patents cover paper wicks as well as wood, seeing as how they may be considered similar?

 

As an aside, and I'm assuming Wooden Wick/Makesy licenses from Lumetique, that Lumetique allows such a relatively poor product to be sold under it's patents though I suppose licensing fees are still income. Personally, I wont buy from the company that has become Makesy.

Lumetique has so many wick patents that some covers many materials including papers with planar & several other shapes.  That's all they do.  They keep on filing patent after another without developing actual good product.  

 

Well!  Thanks to their patents, it allows others to develop a great wick without infringe their patents rights.  Their wicks and instruction(their patents) shows us what not to do. 🤣

[LilyJane]

On 2/6/2021 at 2:24 PM, BusyBee said:

Papers are made out of trees, and they burn better than any other materials in candles.  1st picture is cardboard box paper, 2nd is regular copy paper & 3rd one is cereal box.  Biggest problem with these?  They will produce strong paper burning smell when they burn.  Then there are soot and terrible after glow issues to deal with.  Is there odorless burning paper on earth?

 

Yes, there is!  This is paper wick is made out of odorless burning paper.  This is one of the way to make wooden wick better (getting the fibers out of tree), and I am very confident that there are other ways too.

 

 

@BusyBeeDid you make these flat paper wicks yourself, or are they available to buy somewhere? I’m looking for an alternative to my eco cotton braided wicks that I won’t need to adhere to the bottom of my container. I was going to try wooden wicks for this reason, but I don’t want to after reading so much negative feedback about wooden wicks. (I want to be able to place my wick into the melted wax and have it stay in place - the wood wick is heavy enough to do that.)