Vee Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 Has anyone ever faced issues with a particular fragrance not getting emitted? I use the same blend and wick size and container for all my fragrances and gets good HT and CT but there’s this lemon grass from the same supplier that I have used in the past too and suddenly no HT at all. I am foxed! Tested with different waxes, different wick sizes but no result. I am now going to attempt reducing the load and keep fingers crossed 🤞. I have been using 10% even tried with 12%.no luck ! It’s not even that the FO is old or that there is no fragrance in it. Put it in a diffuser and tremendous fragrance throw! Suddenly I feel I know nothing of candle making when a strange challenge like this shows up after 4 years of making candles! I have been trying to fix this issue since a couple of months, reading up on FO etc but have not succeeded and hate to give up! If anyone can throw some light or share some tips on what to do I would appreciate it. TIA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallTayl Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 All the time. Some FO just clog wicks or otherwise need a different set of variables to perform. Some are just duds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paintguru Posted November 24, 2020 Share Posted November 24, 2020 I think I'm running at about 30-40% "good-great HT" rate for the FO's I've tested. Granted, I have a high standard, but I don't need to carry 100 fragrance choices, and there are literally 1000+ FOs out there. Unfortunately, what works for one may not work for another, so we're all forced to just test. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vee Posted November 24, 2020 Author Share Posted November 24, 2020 Thanks. I agree that sometimes variables are challenging. I was wondering if something can be added to the wax to encourage the wax to throw better. I read somewhere that coconut oil can enhance throw ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErronB Posted November 24, 2020 Share Posted November 24, 2020 Which wax is it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vee Posted November 24, 2020 Author Share Posted November 24, 2020 Blend of soy and paraffin,also tried it with beeswax,and with only paraffin too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bfroberts Posted November 24, 2020 Share Posted November 24, 2020 1 hour ago, Vee said: Blend of soy and paraffin,also tried it with beeswax,and with only paraffin too Like TT said, some FO's are just duds. If you've had success in the past, there could be another explanation. Which waxes are you using, specifically? (Ex.: IGI 6006, GB464, a custom blend, etc.?) They all have their quirks, sometimes there are inconsistencies, all kinds of things that could be going on. Specifics will help us troubleshoot. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallTayl Posted November 24, 2020 Share Posted November 24, 2020 Coconut oil has been recently advocated as some magic miracle for hot throw. When you think about why it may or may not work we can think about how to use other things to accomplish similar goals. coconut oil 76, a commonly available on the supermarket shelf food, is a veg fat that has a melt point of 76 degrees. It lowers the melt point of your wax blend. You could use mineral oil or vaseline to get the same result. It comes down to if the problem with HT is the melt point or melt behavior of your wax blend. Coconut oil can help smooth out the irregular grains of soy and other veg waxes, but it comes with a price. Coconut oil 76 retains some molecular moisture and can create other issues similar to those in freshly made soy wax. Have you ever noticed how dry and crispy soy wax flakes get as they age? “curing” the wax or “tempering” the wax releases the molecular moisture that improves the look and burn of veggie waxes. Coconut oil seems stable in candles during cooler months, but an cause puddling, seeping and pooling in warmer times because it is adding oil to a candle that already has oil (fragrance) in it. Candle waxes have additives that can only hold so much liquid before it leaks. And remember that molecular water in coconut oil? It too will evaporate slowly over time which is why some coconut oil candles shrink in the jars as they age. I have some coconut 83 candles made last year that have 1/8” separation around the top even though the candles were sealed. So long story short, when adding coconut oil you “may” get a similar benefit to paraffin in cold times without the stability of paraffin blends when warmer. If the problem with hot throw is not the melt point, then you may see no difference at all. You could use a hydrogenated vegetable or animal shortening instead of coconut oil to get to the same end, or add a different paraffin. Sometimes a different wick series is a better overall option. I find when fragrances need heat eco, cottonwood or square braid might be the ticket without reformulating. All of that is expensive testing for a fragrance that might not be worth it in the end. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vee Posted November 25, 2020 Author Share Posted November 25, 2020 Firstly what a wealth of knowledge there is on this forum! Thanks guys you always take the time to reply and that’s not easy. I really appreciate it. I live in Mumbai. We don’t get pre blended waxes here so I make my own blend with 60%soy, 40% paraffin.. some stearin and some micro wax. Candle making is at its nascent stage here. It’s not profesional like it is in other places so the challenges are very many. So I do the best I can with different permutations, combinations. People are also not that happy to share info. I have been looking to study all the material on candle making so that I have some clarity on the science behind achieving good HT and CT. The person I learnt candle making from in France did not really give any importance to this at all. And at that time I had no idea how important fragrance and achieving a good throw is the most important thing to a candle. I keep testing. Though that’s a bit of a long road..it takes lot of patience and frustration! Thanks again Guys .. always learn a lot from you guys. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BusyBee Posted November 25, 2020 Share Posted November 25, 2020 13 hours ago, TallTayl said: Coconut oil has been recently advocated as some magic miracle for hot throw. When you think about why it may or may not work we can think about how to use other things to accomplish similar goals. coconut oil 76, a commonly available on the supermarket shelf food, is a veg fat that has a melt point of 76 degrees. It lowers the melt point of your wax blend. You could use mineral oil or vaseline to get the same result. It comes down to if the problem with HT is the melt point or melt behavior of your wax blend. Coconut oil can help smooth out the irregular grains of soy and other veg waxes, but it comes with a price. Coconut oil 76 retains some molecular moisture and can create other issues similar to those in freshly made soy wax. Have you ever noticed how dry and crispy soy wax flakes get as they age? “curing” the wax or “tempering” the wax releases the molecular moisture that improves the look and burn of veggie waxes. Coconut oil seems stable in candles during cooler months, but an cause puddling, seeping and pooling in warmer times because it is adding oil to a candle that already has oil (fragrance) in it. Candle waxes have additives that can only hold so much liquid before it leaks. And remember that molecular water in coconut oil? It too will evaporate slowly over time which is why some coconut oil candles shrink in the jars as they age. I have some coconut 83 candles made last year that have 1/8” separation around the top even though the candles were sealed. So long story short, when adding coconut oil you “may” get a similar benefit to paraffin in cold times without the stability of paraffin blends when warmer. If the problem with hot throw is not the melt point, then you may see no difference at all. You could use a hydrogenated vegetable or animal shortening instead of coconut oil to get to the same end, or add a different paraffin. Sometimes a different wick series is a better overall option. I find when fragrances need heat eco, cottonwood or square braid might be the ticket without reformulating. All of that is expensive testing for a fragrance that might not be worth it in the end. Another fabulous analysis and recommendation! But I am wondering how many people can apply this into their candle development. *There is one thing I don't completely agree though. I think it would be easier to reformulating the wax than finding the right wick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BusyBee Posted November 25, 2020 Share Posted November 25, 2020 1 hour ago, Vee said: Firstly what a wealth of knowledge there is on this forum! Thanks guys you always take the time to reply and that’s not easy. I really appreciate it. I live in Mumbai. We don’t get pre blended waxes here so I make my own blend with 60%soy, 40% paraffin.. some stearin and some micro wax. Candle making is at its nascent stage here. It’s not profesional like it is in other places so the challenges are very many. So I do the best I can with different permutations, combinations. People are also not that happy to share info. I have been looking to study all the material on candle making so that I have some clarity on the science behind achieving good HT and CT. The person I learnt candle making from in France did not really give any importance to this at all. And at that time I had no idea how important fragrance and achieving a good throw is the most important thing to a candle. I keep testing. Though that’s a bit of a long road..it takes lot of patience and frustration! Thanks again Guys .. always learn a lot from you guys. It might be a good thing that you don't have pre-blended candle waxes over there. None of pre-blended waxes in USA can be considered spectacular. You might want to start from 75% soy, 20% paraffin, 5% vegetable shortening instead of oils, little bit of stearin, micro soft and maybe Vybar 260. You can start adjust from there. You might want to keep percentage of soy above 70% and use no more than 10% vegetable shortening. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vee Posted November 25, 2020 Author Share Posted November 25, 2020 The moment I increase soy I get a lot of flakiness and frosting on my candles. Especially on the top which does not go with the heat gun. It almost looks like the wax has curdled on the top. What kind of vegetable shortening are you referring to ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BusyBee Posted November 25, 2020 Share Posted November 25, 2020 1 hour ago, Vee said: The moment I increase soy I get a lot of flakiness and frosting on my candles. Especially on the top which does not go with the heat gun. It almost looks like the wax has curdled on the top. What kind of vegetable shortening are you referring to ? Original vegetable shortening invented is called Crisco in 1911, but any no name brand shortening(partially hydrogenated oils) would work fine. I don't know what kind of soy waxes are available in your country, but beautiful top can be achieved if you pour the wax below 140F and lower. I pour at 135F. For the frosting of soy waxes, I just hide it by using colored container or tin. You should trying to find your own best formula for your soy wax since it should be different than what I use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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