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Lotion Watery/Separating


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First I'd like to start off by saying we have been making this same lotion recipe for 6-7 years. Our lotion is a THICK lotion and has to be squeezed from a bottle. Too thick to go through a pump. We have sporadically over the years had issues where the lotion was watery after it cooled, but the issues have been increasing and this last year I have thrown more bottles away than I like. Yesterday, I made over 15 different batches and I had to toss all but about 5. And it's not as if it was the first part of the batch or the last. The first 2 batches I made were just fine (pink sugar/butt naked). Then it was hit or miss. I don't know what's going on. I'm not sure if it's a separation issue or a condensation issue or an ingredient issue. All of our ingredients we get from the same supplier as we have for the 6-7 years.

 

First our ingredients: Coconut Oil, Olive Oil, Sunflower Oil, Shea Butter, Silky E-Wax (Natures Garden), Stearic Acid, Optiphen Plus, water and fragrance. All of our oils come from Soapers Choice. 

 

Earlier this year I thought perhaps the issue was that I had kept my oils in a vat warmer which I would constantly warm and cool. I would noticed how my Sunflower oil aged and had the rancid off smell so I then stopped using that warmer and would just melt oils as I needed them.  The past few times I've made it I just load them in my biggest pot and melt them that way. Then we thought the issue was the warmth we were bottling the lotion. Years ago we used to just use Optiphen and the safe temp was 125 or less. The optiphen plus is more forgiving so sometimes I get patient, but I usually wait until it's below or right at 130 to bottle. I use the same measurements so it's not a mere fact of miscalculation on the amount of water added. 

 

Process: I melt my oils: Coconut/olive/sunflower/shea/ewax/stearic in pot. I usually add the sunflower last so it doesn't overheat. I keep temp on low on my stove top. I then heat my water and usually my temps after water added are between 125 and 145. I always cool to 132 or less. The only thing I started doing was immediately adding my optiphen and fragrance at the same time I add my water. I then stick blend trying to keep minimal amounts of foam down. I never let the foam go in the bottle. We bottle, cap and then let sit over night.

 

PHOTOS BELOW: I have added photos of what I'm experiencing. The first photo is the bad lotion as it comes out of our squeeze bottles with flip caps. The 2nd and 3rd photo are the same lotion but we put in 8 oz amber jars. It's like it's solid and thicker (almost greasier) on the top and the bottom is like thickened milk. The 4th Photo is a good batch of what it's supposed to look like. This is our pink sugar (type) and the entire batch of it turned out OK. 

 

Am I not mixing enough? We always get foam on top in pan as well as my funnel/bottling system and I try not to over mix with stick blender to keep foam down. But I feel like it's a separation issue. My reasoning is the thicker sludge on top feels like it has more oils in it. And vice versa on my bottles they stand on the cap side so when I open the cap that's where the water is and the thicker lotion is at the top which has been on the top part of the bottle as it cools. So as the lotions cool they bottom part is more liquidy and less greasy and the top part is like where the oils are solidifying. I just feel this is a PROCESS issue and not an ingredient issue because if were an ingredient then ALL of my batches would turn out the same... Any help would be greatly appreciated. I tossed a lot of money including hard to come by bottles. THANKS!!! Will adding more ewax help keep things separated or is it merely I'm not mixing enough.

 

Steve

 

 

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All new ewax. Melted 9 full batches of oils and ewax into same pot. 
 

Different fragrances but all same frag we’ve used before. Fairly new batteries. I’m not sure if it’s a temp issue. I saw on other site wheee temp of water should be close to temp of oils. I’ve never worried about that but maybe I’m getting my water hotter. Would that change ending consistency. Again it is hit or miss. So unless my water temp is different. But it’s like two batches fine. Next one bad. Then 1 good then 2 bad. 

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I usually mix everything at 176, after heating and holding water to reduce potential microbe load. I use the stick blender steadily early on to create emulsion, then just a wide paddle slowly to cool quickly in a cold water bath. I have successfully made many one-pot with oils and water in the same heating vessel with ewax, though many caution that may stress the emulsifier too much.
 

it could be your temps are just too low. Or it could be something else. I would make a couple of unscented small batches just to be sure.

 

if some fo are separating and others are not, it could be the fo components.  Some just break emulsion easier due to polarity issues.

 

if you have any old ewax left, it helps to compare to eliminate the new as a culprit.

 

 

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Process: I melt my oils: Coconut/olive/sunflower/shea/ewax/stearic in pot. I usually add the sunflower last so it doesn't overheat. I keep temp on low on my stove top. I then heat my water and usually my temps after water added are between 125 and 145. I always cool to 132 or less. The only thing I started doing was immediately adding my optiphen and fragrance at the same time I add my water. I then stick blend trying to keep minimal amounts of foam down. I never let the foam go in the bottle. We bottle, cap and then let sit over night.
 

i think your process. Blend oils and water, and fragrance. Then allow to cool to add preservative. If this doesn’t work it’s could be the preservative that is making your life difficult. If you let the lotion sit overnight you can gently fold in the foam. Also it sounds like temps are too low and lotion is not actually emulsifying - also make sure your ingredients oils ewax is seriously melted.
Do a test batch with higher oil and water temps - blend longer than you have been. Allow to cool way down before preservative is added then stick blend that in super well.

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OK. Sorry for not immediately replying back. Long 4th of July Weekend. I think you both are right on the money. I feel my temps are way too low.

 

Years ago when we started making lotion there was one time I made it at a low temperature and we felt that it created more foam. We had tried a different ewax at the time so we chalked it up to that. Ever since then we always did the higher temps 160+ and mixed oils/ewax/water/fragrance as suggested above. At the time we used regular optiphen from NG and it was heat tolerant to 140 but they always suggested adding around 120. So we would cool down to 120 or close and add optiphen. We never had any issues. When we switched to buying it in bulk from Ingredients to die for they had the optiphen plus which is heat tolerate to 176. So. somewhere along the way I started adding the optiphen at a higher temperate at the same time I added the fragrance. All of this would be in line with what happened last week. The first 2 batches I made the water was hotter because I had a large pot of water and as the water cooled so did my batch temps. 

 

SO... I will be doing a new test today doing it the old fashioned way... 160-170 water and then cooling before adding preservative. I will update. I've spent some time looking this weekend for a Point of Use Water Heater that I can output consistent water temperature controlled. My current process is just boiling a big pan of water which as you know when you're doing multiple batches and adding water to your pot it causes heat fluctuation. So the consistent temp is sorta out the window. I'm wanting like a small on demand water heater that's just for the purpose of outputting accurate temp water so that when I make water I'm not only more consistent but not waiting for water to heat up. 

 

Thanks for your help. I'll post back what I find. 

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How big are your batches? 

I use a big presto pot for heating. it is quick and easy. An electronic teapot can also heat quickly, and some have temp settings for various teas.

 

It may be worth trying to single-pot oils and water. With reliable e-waxes I have not had any stability issues. (touches wood)

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1 minute ago, TallTayl said:

How big are your batches? 

I use a big presto pot for heating. it is quick and easy. An electronic teapot can also heat quickly, and some have temp settings for various teas.

 

It may be worth trying to single-pot oils and water. With reliable e-waxes I have not had any stability issues. (touches wood)

Like right now as far as OIls/ewax/butters each batch is 44.8 oz oils and my water is 100 oz water. What I had been doing was pouring say 67 or so ounces of really hot water and then tempering it with room temp water. Again, not really any consistency. This nets me about (30+) 4 oz bottles. I have over 35 scents so not doing it in bulk I would never get anything done. If I can get my oil temp and water temp consistent I think it will solve my issues. We have always used Natures Garden Silky Ewax and it's always been consistent even though its more expensive than what I can buy from say soapers choice. I just have hesitated to switch. People love our lotion. It's a thick non-greasy lotion so I hate messing with the formula.

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Roasting pan, sous vide. You set exact temp on the sous videos water and oils. Consistent. Look for a cheapie on EBay that’s where I got mine. Works like a charm. I use it to melt down hard waxes and butters from shapers choice.

Try small batch higher temps, then cool down before preservative. Should help. If not then it could be the preservative breaking the emulsion.

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Made 2 batches this morning. Wanted to clarify. I make single batches of scents, but I melt my oils/butters/ewax in large pot and just measure out what I need for a single batch before adding water/FO/Preserve. I had my water at 170 and oils at 145 and when blended was around 157-160. I blended first and then add FO and let cool to 130. Added Optiphen Plus and then blended some more. Noticeably less foam. I will let you know if it's like it should be. Again, this problem pops up periodically so I know it's a process issue. I think it was really the low temps I was adding my water at and it separating out. Time will tell. Thanks again.

 

Steve

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I think that did it. I will have to do more testing as I go to fully make sure, but I think I was getting in a hurry and doing the water at too low of a temperature. Proof is in the pudding. Looks perfect on the 2 batches I did this morning. Thank you two for helping out. 

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