Bath powder preservative?

[Candybee]

I want to make a tester of my bath powder this week and trying to find info on preservatives. Anyone make bath powder and do you use a preservative? I will be selling it so want to make sure it is safe. 

 

Currently the preservatives I have on hand are Optiphen Plus, Germall Plus, Potassium Sorbate Powder and Sodium Benzoate.

 

I thought I read somewhere that you can use Phenotip? but I think its a liquid so not sure.

 

Please help. It can be hard to find info for some things. Any help will be appreciated. Thanks.

[Shari]

Why would it need a preservative?   Does your recipe have something in it to feed mold/bacteria?   Just curious....I'd not of thought to preserve powder.

[TallTayl]

I would be concerned with introducing moisture from the preservative into the powder and creating a new problem.

 

if the powder is  dry, would it be problematic?
 

Likewise most of those preservatives live in either the aqueous (water)component or the lipid (oil/fat) component of a hydrous blend to stop mold, bacteria and fungal growth. This means they will not be effective in a dry powder anyway. 
 

just searching briefly through common bath powder, let’s see what they do...

shower to shower: Zea Mays (Corn) Starch, Talc, Sodium Bicarbonate (Baking Soda), Tricalcium Phophate, Fragrance, Maltodextrin 

the Tricalcium Phosphate and Maltodextrin seem to be flowing agents. https://knowledge.ulprospector.com/297/tricalcium-phosphate-food-formulations/
 

amazon’s top dusting powder sellers are interesting too. https://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers-Beauty-Fragrance-Dusting-Powders/zgbs/beauty/10292709011
gold bond: 

Corn Starch, Sodium Bicarbonate, Silica, Fragrance, Ascorbyl Palmitate, Aloe Barbadensis Leaf Extract, Lavandula Angustifolia (Lavender) Extract, Chamomilla Recutita (Matricaria) Flower Extract, Rosmarinus Officinalis (Rosemary) Leaf Extract, Acacia Farnesiana Extract, Tocopheryl Acetate, Retinyl Palmitate, Polyoxymethylene Urea, Isopropyl Myristate, Benzethonium Chloride (245-055).

 

Woods of Windsor : https://www.amazon.com/Woods-Windsor-Dusting-Powder-Lavender/dp/B00BW7B8GU/ref=zg_bs_10292709011_7?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=2JT0WT6QMV3Q1NV47C29. “

Answer:

TALC IS THE FIRST INGREDIENT,PARFUM,MAGNESIUM CARBONATE,CITRONELLOL AND A LOT OF OTHERS. It's a great powder I have used it for years. ”

Estée Lauder: https://www.amazon.com/Estee-Lauder-Dusting-Powder-7-Ounces/dp/B000VOPGO0/ref=zg_bs_10292709011_18?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=2JT0WT6QMV3Q1NV47C29.  Ingredients: Mica, Youth-Dew Perfume (Parfum), Calcium Silicate, Dimethicone, Tetrasodium Edta, Benzyl Salicylate, Linalool, Geraniol, Hydroxycitronellal, Limonene, Eugenol, Citral, Farnesol, Coumarin, Cinnamyl Alcohol, Hexyl Cinnamal, Benzyl Alcohol, Evernia Furfuracea (Treemoss) Extract, Citronellol, Benzyl Benzoate, Chlorphenesin, Potassium Sorbate <ILN35210>
Of these potassium sorbate would be considered a preservative, but I think it is incidental as a preservative within another fragrant ingredient. 

 

soooooo... though this is not exhaustive research,  I would say you are fine without introducing a new preservative. 

[Candybee]

You are right in the sense that it not an aqueous product and normally would not need a preservative. I am just thinking cautiously and asking others what they do for their powders. I had not intended to use a preservative at first, but just was not sure the more I thought about it. And research has helped precious little. 

 

I was also concerned as most of the preservatives I have are liquid which may or may not work in a powder. I do have the Potassium Sorbate Powder so I may try that. It may not need a preservative per se, but if I can find a way to incorporate one for added consumer protection and peace of mind I will do so. So I will try the potassium sorbate power.

 

I did look into other powders on the market to see what they use and what I found useful was that they add extracts and vitamin E acetate which are liquid. Since I will be adding FO/EOs to the powder mixture I will go ahead and add some vitamin E acetate and some chamomile and or calendula extracts along with the potassium sorbate.. I also have some aloe 40x powder which I want to add too. 

 

Will see how this concoction turns out...

 

 

[Candybee]

well, I assumed the vitamin E acetate and floral extracts were liquid... perhaps they used a powdered or dry version. All I have are liquid forms so will see what happens. I think the small % they will be used at hopefully will not mess up the powder. Don't want clumps or unincorporated lumps, flakes, beads, etc.

[TallTayl]

keep us posted

 

[Candybee]

57 minutes ago, TallTayl said:

keep us posted

 

 

I just made a batch and no problem with the liquid additives and the preservative powder. It smells wonderful and works like a powder should. However, it is not silky or smoothe feeling if you kwim. Its like rubbing a dry powder on my skin. How can I get it to feel silky and smooth?

 

Funny yesterday I just ordered some Luxglide N350 and Luxglide N5 to try out both for my deodorant and other products. The N350 is a natural dimethicone alternative while the N5 is a natural cyclomethicone alternative. (Their words) The N5 is perfect for the deodorant but I got both to try them out.

 

You think either might work in my powder to make it feel silky smooth? They both work to get rid of tacky, oily after feel in products while producing glide, silkiness and smoothness. 

 

I also have Isopropyl Myristate but sort of doubtful about this one as I mix in with my oils in certain products.

 

Anyway, the dryness and slightly rough feeling is noticable. Not a lot, but to me and my sensitive skin its noticable enough it needs fixing. Its hard to explain the texture. A powder needs to be dry but the feel on skin should be silky and smooth, not dry like you rubbed a dry powder on your skin.

 

My ingredients are:

cornstarch, arrowroot, and bentonite clay

 

I also have tapioca and white kaolin clay which I may try, especially the kaolin. Thinking the cornstarch and clay may be the rough dry feel to it. Don't know.

 

[Candybee]

forgot to add I won't use baking soda like I have seen in some recipes. Don't want to give my customers a rash.

 

Right now the dry ingredients are split evenly 33% ea; cornstarch, arrowroot powder, and b. clay. Maybe reformulating the % will help. I think maybe more arrowroot and less clay? Or leave it be. Who knew bath powder could be so challenging to get the right feel and consistency?!!! Gadz, what did I get myself into!!

[Candybee]

why did talc have to turn out to be such a bad ingredients, it was so soft and silky feeling. Sigh.... but I won't be using talc of course so I have to find a way to fix this. I use cornstarch powders before and do now so I know they have that slightly dry, rough feel but its not as bad as what I just made so I know there is something I can do to fix it.

[TallTayl]

The smoothness comes from the dry ingredients. I didn't like clay in my powders. Kaolin especially can be gritty. I remember some bad press about kaolin too and removed it immediately. How about tapioca instead? Or magnesium carbonate?

 

[Candybee]

7 minutes ago, TallTayl said:

The smoothness comes from the dry ingredients. I didn't like clay in my powders. Kaolin especially can be gritty. I remember some bad press about kaolin too and removed it immediately. How about tapioca instead? Or magnesium carbonate?

 

Funny I assumed the clay would be the silkiest or smoothest and assumed the cornstarch was mostly the culprit.

 

I like the arrowroot so that stays. Maybe sub the tapioca for the clay.

 

I have magnesium hydroxide for my deodorant, but not magnesium carbonate. What is the diff? Need to look that up...

[Candybee]

I see WSP has some magnesium stearate which provides slip, glide, and anti-caking properties to mineral makeup, lotions, and deodorant. Still looking for the magnesium carbonate...

[TallTayl]

Magnesium carbonate is a lot smoother than magnesium hydroxide. Magnesium hydroxide can be rather gritty too. I suggest it because it’s in some of the higher end products like Estee Lauder and what not.

[birdcharm]

I'd like to try cornsilk powder one day ... have you tried that as part of your recipe? 

 

[Candybee]

2 hours ago, birdcharm said:

I'd like to try cornsilk powder one day ... have you tried that as part of your recipe? 

 

 

Don't think I've ever tried that. Where do you find cornsilk?

 

Never mind. Found it at Amazon and WSP. Its a dark brown powder and according to WSP its gritty so no, don't think I will use it.

 

However researching it did help me with thinking how to revise and hopefully improve my bath powder recipe.

[Candybee]

6 hours ago, TallTayl said:

Magnesium carbonate is a lot smoother than magnesium hydroxide. Magnesium hydroxide can be rather gritty too. I suggest it because it’s in some of the higher end products like Estee Lauder and what not.

 

Still can't find this ingredient. Do you have a link?

 

Trying to find it I did come across another powder ingredient called tricalcium phosphate. I see its on the cheap brand of dollar store bath powder I use too. Researching this one I found it has a bad reputation but no evidence it causes any harm. I am wary about using anything that some of my customers may consider harmful even if it has not been proved. Kwim?

[Candybee]

I have purchased so many supplies these past few months due to the Covid 19. Since I have been sitting at home a lot I have been busy making concoctions. LOL

 

Sooooo...... I will try again tomorrow with a revised powder recipe with what I already have on hand. Seriously, I have been spending so much money lately on supplies I need to stop it.

 

I am going to give cornstarch, arrowroot, and tapioca a try. Again I don't know the proper portions so I will split them in thirds evenly. Will see if I like this one. I am hoping to use more familiar household and as natural ingredients as I can manage and think this combo would be agreeable with customer too. Keeping my fingers crossed for my test tomorrow.

 

Oh.... and I also found some use oat flour so I may give that a try too. I have some colloidal oatmeal that is silky smooth, just never tried it in powder so will see how it goes.

 

Edited June 18, 2020 by Candybee

[NightLight]

Concerns! Powders are airborne. Adding preservative will that be good for the lungs. Clay powders for bath powder I would limit those a bit as they are heavy and get clumpy. You will have to test a bit for feel, absorbency and whether your product is too powdery airborne for people. Try above combo, if too light and fluffy and a small amount of kaolin. Magnesium stearate in small amounts might be help as anti caking agent, it’s put in vitamin capsules as filler anti caking but Too much will cause whitening.

[Candybee]

2 hours ago, NightLight said:

Concerns! Powders are airborne. Adding preservative will that be good for the lungs. Clay powders for bath powder I would limit those a bit as they are heavy and get clumpy. You will have to test a bit for feel, absorbency and whether your product is too powdery airborne for people. Try above combo, if too light and fluffy and a small amount of kaolin. Magnesium stearate in small amounts might be help as anti caking agent, it’s put in vitamin capsules as filler anti caking but Too much will cause whitening.

 

Instructions I found re making powder are to wear a mask so I am already doing that. As far as preservative, the one I am using is a potassium salt of sorbic acid so I feel comfortable using it plus the small amount I am using will be mixed in with the powder so it will be very diluted. 

 

The first batch I made did not 'spread' anymore than any powder I have used in my lifetime. The dangers of inhaling it are more in the making of it as it disperses in the air as I mix it therefore I use my ventilator when I will be making and packaging it. 

 

I have looked into anti-caking ingredients and thinking about selecting one. I also came across magnesium stearate I think but will need to take a second look as yesterday I was more concerned with the 'feel' of the powder recipe.

Edited June 18, 2020 by Candybee

[Candybee]

After looking into an anti-caking agent I find I am now reluctant to use one. There is still questions in the air as to their safety.

 

Magnesium silicate and cornstarch are both used in food and cosmetic industries as a 'natural' anti-caking agent. The corn starch I am using also works as an anti-caking agent and is often mixed in with powdered sugar by manufacturers to prevent caking and a slimy texture from developing.

 

If my recipe starts developing lumps or clumps then I will look into it again. But if the cornstarch is working don't want to fix what is not broke kwim?!

Edited June 18, 2020 by Candybee

[birdcharm]

13 hours ago, Candybee said:

 

Don't think I've ever tried that. Where do you find cornsilk?

 

Never mind. Found it at Amazon and WSP. Its a dark brown powder and according to WSP its gritty so no, don't think I will use it.

 

However researching it did help me with thinking how to revise and hopefully improve my bath powder recipe.

 

I'm not understanding the "gritty" description ... everything I've ever read about it says it has a silky feel to it, which is why I thought of it.  I wasn't trying to steer you wrong, I promise!! 🙂  I was curious to at least do a search for it and see that Nature's Garden carries it, but I didn't look any further. 

 

Here's what they say about it:

Cornsilk powder is used in natural cosmetics, skincare, and soap for its ability to soften the skin. Cornsilk used in body powders provides a silky feel.  Cornsilk can be used in soap as a natural brown coloring.  Cornsilk adds silkiness and glide to these recipes.  Cornsilk can be used in the formulation of facial masks to provide skin softening.  Cornsilk can be used in body powder formulas since it provides a silky feel.  Cornsilk can be added to soap recipes for gentle exfoliation.  ( source )

 

In some ways, with natural skin care products, I think people are more open to products having tint to them due to the natural ingredients, i.e., powder not being white-white.

 

 

[Candybee]

This morning I test out some powders I have and here are my results:

 

From softest, silkiest, glide starting at the top and the least at the bottom:

 

Arrowroot - WINNER winner, chicken dinner! Super soft, silky, glide, feels wonderful on my skin!

Cornstarch - almost as silky smooth as arrowroot just a teeny tiny tad less so its almost undetectable

Tapioca - very nice and smooth and silky but also a tiny tad less than arrowroot and cornstarch

White Kaolin Clay -  this was actually very nice and pretty smooth, a bit silky, but had a slight drag

Colloidal Oat Flour - texture seems nice when you first touch it with your fingers but has a slightly rough exfoliant type texture with little glide on my skin

Bentonite Clay - this was the culprit; feels so dry, flaky, rough, and bumpy on skin, definitely out! This is what ruined my initial test batch. Interesting because so many recipes I find on the internet have bentonite clay as a major ingredient in homemade body powders. Seriously?? It felt icky to me.

 

These were all the powders I had on hand to test out. I am still interested in rice flour so will pick some up next time I'm out shopping.

 

But the winners for my bath powder are Cornstarch, Arrowroot Powder, Tapioca Flour, and White Kaolin Clay. The biggest % will go to cornstarch followed closely by arrowroot and tapioca and a much smaller amount of kaolin of maybe 5%. I will be working on the percentages to come up with the right combo but so far am happy with the new powder combo I have picked.

[Candybee]

23 minutes ago, birdcharm said:

 

I'm not understanding the "gritty" description ... everything I've ever read about it says it has a silky feel to it, which is why I thought of it.  I wasn't trying to steer you wrong, I promise!! 🙂  I was curious to at least do a search for it and see that Nature's Garden carries it, but I didn't look any further. 

 

Here's what they say about it:

Cornsilk powder is used in natural cosmetics, skincare, and soap for its ability to soften the skin. Cornsilk used in body powders provides a silky feel.  Cornsilk can be used in soap as a natural brown coloring.  Cornsilk adds silkiness and glide to these recipes.  Cornsilk can be used in the formulation of facial masks to provide skin softening.  Cornsilk can be used in body powder formulas since it provides a silky feel.  Cornsilk can be added to soap recipes for gentle exfoliation.  ( source )

 

In some ways, with natural skin care products, I think people are more open to products having tint to them due to the natural ingredients, i.e., powder not being white-white.

 

 

 

I am just as surprised as you! I assumed it leaves a silky feel when added to cosmetics. 

 

This is what I found at WSP. The powder is an earthy brown color and I was excited until I started to read the Q&A about it. Read the second question and response and this made me take a back step and decide not to use it along with the color. I simply don't want a powder that would be discolored by a dark powder nor anything in my formulation that would tend to feel gritty on skin: https://www.wholesalesuppliesplus.com/products/cornsilk-powder.aspx

 

Maybe there are other refined powders or different grinds but I did not find any. Or maybe you incorporate it by adding to oils, liquids, or lye to break it down or dissolve it. Don't know.

Edited June 18, 2020 by Candybee

[TallTayl]

WSP May have a different corn silk than used in the cosmetics mentioned.  It could be the silky ones are processed before the corn gets crusty and dry.  I remember loving the feel of corn silk in cosmetics when they came out. 
 

you May also want to sift or run the powders through a very fine sieve.  It will fluff them and filter out larger particles. 
 

good going testing individual ingredients to knockout the bad ones.  Clays are milled differently, so that could explain the differences in bentonite and kaolin.  I have several kaolin, each are different grain and none feel great applied neat to skin.  I use the same clays in pottery clay and glazes, so obvs Different manufacturing processes and mines.

 

when formulating, I try to find things people can’t normally find in the grocery store or pantry. Why would they pay me a decent amount if they can DIY? That same battle is being waged against a dry shampoo company charging $40+ for a 2 oz jar of what amounts to corn starch, a little clay and mica. A competitor who has more lux sounding ingredients gets that same price all day long. 

[Candybee]

I thought about the texture due to different grind too. It can make all the difference. I am thinking re the corn silk that could be a factor, plus how you incorporate it into your product could also make a difference if you put in oils, liquids, etc. Since my ingredients will be dry I can't count on them being dissolved and have to use raw. So if they are grainy or gritty in their dry stage I can't use.