Jump to content
TallTayl

American Soy Freedom Wax Test

Recommended Posts

This one started with a 464 thread here:

 

summary to not lose the discussion:

how about a wax test thread where I/we share results?


thoughts on how to perform the test to keep it simple:

 

1) I will use tins (I have hundreds of failures already in tins so giving those tins new life would make me feel less bad about them.

 

2) freedom wax (American Soy’s 464, at least from the intel gathered over the last year that it is 464 🤣) I have a bag purchased recently that will otherwise sit unused.

 

3) make at least 3 Unscented, uncolored with the same wick.  the first burn for one at 24 hours, one at a week, one at a month. 

 

4) make comparison candles, Unscented in glass jars with the same diameter as a tin. Compare the overall burn against tins.

 a) no neck like a status jar

 b) a jar with a minimal neck like a salsa jar

 c) a jar with a neck like a square mason

 

5) make three in the tins with FO that usually require different wicks (learned from past experience). Compare the burns. I have loads of FO I will not use otherwise. To keep simple, burn at the 2 week mark minimum.
 

what else would be helpful?”

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Would love to see how this test goes! How do you like the Freedom Soy overall? 
 

I have been using C-6 with great CT and good HT. Just recently purchased a big bag of ASO’s Freedom Soy. Really disappointed as my CT and HT are not nearly as good after a week or so of curing. Thinking of adding Coconut 1 if I can possibly salvage the Freedom...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, J&JHandcrafted said:

Would love to see how this test goes! How do you like the Freedom Soy overall? 
 

I have been using C-6 with great CT and good HT. Just recently purchased a big bag of ASO’s Freedom Soy. Really disappointed as my CT and HT are not nearly as good after a week or so of curing. Thinking of adding Coconut 1 if I can possibly salvage the Freedom...

It looks and performs like every case if 464 I have ever used.  CT and ht are nothing special. Additives only seem to make the overall candle worse. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, TallTayl said:

It looks and performs like every case if 464 I have ever used.  CT and ht are nothing special. Additives only seem to make the overall candle worse. 

That’s unfortunate. I’ve been reading several patents to better understand the chemistry of scented candle making. Any idea why candle wax blends that contain coconut wax seem to have better CT and HT with much less cure time? What about the chemical structure allows for this? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, J&JHandcrafted said:

That’s unfortunate. I’ve been reading several patents to better understand the chemistry of scented candle making. Any idea why candle wax blends that contain coconut wax seem to have better CT and HT with much less cure time? What about the chemical structure allows for this? 

“Better” throw is subjective. I have several coconut waxes.  Some throw, some do not. Some burn clean. Some do not. Some throw well in one container but not another. It is not a one size improves all thing. Sometimes it comes down to the exact case of wax you are using no matter if it is soy or coconut or whatever. I do have to say, the most consistent wax I have ever worked with is palm.  There has been very little variance between cases in 10 years.
 

fragrance quality (not quantity) is the biggest factor, IMO and IME, that determine if/how well a candle throws. Second is the wick choice for a given candle wax, container, fo. 

In answer to how some seem to throw easier than others, I posted a year or so ago am using I had while cleaning the horse barn.  If you imagine molecules of wax as different types of balls it begins to come into focus. Wicks in this analogy are straws. 
- molecules of Light oils/waxes such as coconut and some paraffin are like ping pong balls. Imagine you want to keep a ping pong ball up in the air using air blown through a straw.  It doesn’t take much effort to launch those balls into the air and keep them there.  

- Molecules of heavier oils/waxes like soy are more like tennis balls. It takes a bigger straw to blow enough air to get the tennis ball up and quite a bit to keep it in the air. 
-molecules of heavy waxes like beeswax are like bowling balls. It takes a heck of a lot of air to launch that ball and loads more to keep it suspended isn’t the air. 
 

this is, of course, very simplistic, but hopefully it helps bring into focus how waxes work. 
 

also, “natural” waxes like soy and coconut are hydrogenated oils. This is similar to shortening used in cooking. They are inherently unstable on their own and need a lot of help to not melt too quickly, crack, shrink, separate from fragrances, etc. that’s where additives come in. Soy waxes like 464, 444, c1, C3,, etc. are all a base of hydrogenated soy with a secret sauce of additives to make them work like customers want them to. In the case of 464 and 444 it seems their customer markets seem focused on “how much” fragrance the wax would hold without looking ugly in glass.  Instead of customers pressuring the fragrance companies to concentrate the fragrance products, customers just want to add more more more in favor of inexpensive/affordable fragrance. 


candles I’ve made with more concentrated custom fragrance made for candles specifically can fully scent a space with very little % and a tiny wick. One example is a lilac tea light I made with Glass  glow palm wax. 3% scent in a single tea light was so nauseatingly strong I had to open the windows and air out the house.
 

I don’t know about you, but I would rather use 3% than 12%. We can’t often get these super concentrated custom FO from usual retailers since the retailers are pressured to make their FO usable in soap, lotion, candles, etc.  another reason candle FO has been lackluster in recent years is the removal of phthalates. Consumer pressure resulted in that. Finally, state air quality regs, like those California issues, prohibit some fragrance compounds that can make a candle smell much stronger.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 hours ago, TallTayl said:

We can’t often get these super concentrated custom FO from usual retailers since the retailers are pressured to make their FO usable in soap, lotion, candles, etc.  

Hi TT, are there manufacturers where we can get concentrated custom fragrances? I usually buy 10# at a time from AFI.

 

***

Also, I have just started testing some Freedom and Midwest 100% soy blends with Easy Beads. I started this experiment because my 464/EasyBeads candles at an 80/20 ratio had FO seeping on top.

 

My current experiment is as such: All the candles are 8% FO (same FO, a custom blend of Black Tea and Bergamot). 

1. Glass Straight-sided tumblers, 9 oz capacity with 1/2" 0.04 booster wood wick. I tested three  ratios: 95% Freedom & 5% EasyBeads, 90% Freedom/10%EasyBeads and 80%/20%. Then I did the same with 100% Midwest soy (95/5, 90/10, 80/20).

2. I repeated the same experiment with an 11 oz ceramic jar with an HTP 105 wick so Midwest/EasyBeads at 95/5, 90/10 and 80/20 and Freedom/EasyBeads at 95/5, 90/10 and 80/20.

 

I made these on May 19 so they have been curing 3 weeks. I will share any interesting results in another post. So far what has been most insightful is that ALL candles with 80/20 ratio (Midwest or Freedom: Easy Beads) have tons of FO pooling on top. Most of the ones with 90/10 ratio also have pooling FO but much less.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Peggy T said:

Hi TT, are there manufacturers where we can get concentrated custom fragrances? I usually buy 10# at a time from AFI.

 

***

Also, I have just started testing some Freedom and Midwest 100% soy blends with Easy Beads. I started this experiment because my 464/EasyBeads candles at an 80/20 ratio had FO seeping on top.

 

My current experiment is as such: All the candles are 8% FO (same FO, a custom blend of Black Tea and Bergamot). 

1. Glass Straight-sided tumblers, 9 oz capacity with 1/2" 0.04 booster wood wick. I tested three  ratios: 95% Freedom & 5% EasyBeads, 90% Freedom/10%EasyBeads and 80%/20%. Then I did the same with 100% Midwest soy (95/5, 90/10, 80/20).

2. I repeated the same experiment with an 11 oz ceramic jar with an HTP 105 wick so Midwest/EasyBeads at 95/5, 90/10 and 80/20 and Freedom/EasyBeads at 95/5, 90/10 and 80/20.

 

I made these on May 19 so they have been curing 3 weeks. I will share any interesting results in another post. So far what has been most insightful is that ALL candles with 80/20 ratio (Midwest or Freedom: Easy Beads) have tons of FO pooling on top. Most of the ones with 90/10 ratio also have pooling FO but much less.

I work directly with a lab I met at a conference to develop and purchase concentrations I need. Usually it is a 25# min purchase.  AFI May be able to work with you to customize your FO.

 

Very interested to see your results noted above. 
 

Midwest soy has no additives, so I would expect weirdness, like pooling.  It happened to me too. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/7/2020 at 1:55 PM, TallTayl said:

“Better” throw is subjective. I have several coconut waxes.  Some throw, some do not. Some burn clean. Some do not. Some throw well in one container but not another. It is not a one size improves all thing. Sometimes it comes down to the exact case of wax you are using no matter if it is soy or coconut or whatever. I do have to say, the most consistent wax I have ever worked with is palm.  There has been very little variance between cases in 10 years.
 

fragrance quality (not quantity) is the biggest factor, IMO and IME, that determine if/how well a candle throws. Second is the wick choice for a given candle wax, container, fo. 

In answer to how some seem to throw easier than others, I posted a year or so ago am using I had while cleaning the horse barn.  If you imagine molecules of wax as different types of balls it begins to come into focus. Wicks in this analogy are straws. 
- molecules of Light oils/waxes such as coconut and some paraffin are like ping pong balls. Imagine you want to keep a ping pong ball up in the air using air blown through a straw.  It doesn’t take much effort to launch those balls into the air and keep them there.  

- Molecules of heavier oils/waxes like soy are more like tennis balls. It takes a bigger straw to blow enough air to get the tennis ball up and quite a bit to keep it in the air. 
-molecules of heavy waxes like beeswax are like bowling balls. It takes a heck of a lot of air to launch that ball and loads more to keep it suspended isn’t the air. 
 

this is, of course, very simplistic, but hopefully it helps bring into focus how waxes work. 
 

also, “natural” waxes like soy and coconut are hydrogenated oils. This is similar to shortening used in cooking. They are inherently unstable on their own and need a lot of help to not melt too quickly, crack, shrink, separate from fragrances, etc. that’s where additives come in. Soy waxes like 464, 444, c1, C3,, etc. are all a base of hydrogenated soy with a secret sauce of additives to make them work like customers want them to. In the case of 464 and 444 it seems their customer markets seem focused on “how much” fragrance the wax would hold without looking ugly in glass.  Instead of customers pressuring the fragrance companies to concentrate the fragrance products, customers just want to add more more more in favor of inexpensive/affordable fragrance. 


candles I’ve made with more concentrated custom fragrance made for candles specifically can fully scent a space with very little % and a tiny wick. One example is a lilac tea light I made with Glass  glow palm wax. 3% scent in a single tea light was so nauseatingly strong I had to open the windows and air out the house.
 

I don’t know about you, but I would rather use 3% than 12%. We can’t often get these super concentrated custom FO from usual retailers since the retailers are pressured to make their FO usable in soap, lotion, candles, etc.  another reason candle FO has been lackluster in recent years is the removal of phthalates. Consumer pressure resulted in that. Finally, state air quality regs, like those California issues, prohibit some fragrance compounds that can make a candle smell much stronger.

 

Thank you for the insight, definitely a lot of variables with candle making that makes it fun but also frustrating. In your opinion, which retailer has the best FO for quality as far as concentration/throw go (goal is strong throw without requiring enormous amount of oil (reasonable to me is 6-8%)? I feel like CandleScience and The Flaming Candle seem like ones I can trust most so far.

 

I'm also interested in understanding additives and their effect on the wax and scent throw. For example, my understanding with Vybar is that consists of several sized branched poly alpha olefins with numerous structural conformations that decrease intermolecular interaction, with the purpose of inhibiting crystallization seen with natural waxes. Themes appear to be that the more amorphous a wax, the more likely it will not frost, produce sink holes, have bumpy, have increased glass adherence, etc. Along with that, I've read a patent that aims to increase scent throw by decreasing surface tension of the wax and allow for aromas to escape more easily into the atmosphere ("antifoam agent"). 

 

Is there any data compilation of different candle additives and their effects on candles with some reference to what is happening on a molecular level? I just want to know what to expect with additives otherwise this blind experimentation is enough to make most people go crazy I feel like.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/8/2020 at 9:40 AM, Peggy T said:

Hi TT, are there manufacturers where we can get concentrated custom fragrances? I usually buy 10# at a time from AFI.

 

***

Also, I have just started testing some Freedom and Midwest 100% soy blends with Easy Beads. I started this experiment because my 464/EasyBeads candles at an 80/20 ratio had FO seeping on top.

 

My current experiment is as such: All the candles are 8% FO (same FO, a custom blend of Black Tea and Bergamot). 

1. Glass Straight-sided tumblers, 9 oz capacity with 1/2" 0.04 booster wood wick. I tested three  ratios: 95% Freedom & 5% EasyBeads, 90% Freedom/10%EasyBeads and 80%/20%. Then I did the same with 100% Midwest soy (95/5, 90/10, 80/20).

2. I repeated the same experiment with an 11 oz ceramic jar with an HTP 105 wick so Midwest/EasyBeads at 95/5, 90/10 and 80/20 and Freedom/EasyBeads at 95/5, 90/10 and 80/20.

 

I made these on May 19 so they have been curing 3 weeks. I will share any interesting results in another post. So far what has been most insightful is that ALL candles with 80/20 ratio (Midwest or Freedom: Easy Beads) have tons of FO pooling on top. Most of the ones with 90/10 ratio also have pooling FO but much less.

 

Please keep us updated! I am currently using C-6 but am considering changing over to something like Freedom soy 80% and WoodenWick's Virgin Coconut Soy 20%. The only pure soy waxes I have tried are GB 464 and ASO's Freedom Soy and the scent throws are just inadequate for me (1 week of cure time is ideal for me, I find anything longer is just unreasonable from a business standpoint for my purposes).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/12/2020 at 4:34 PM, J&JHandcrafted said:

Any updates on this test? 

Hey I just talked about this here (see below) but the  summary is there was lots of FO seeping at the beginning but after about 6 weeks, it reabsorbed. I ran a test burn of them and they all did fine. My conclusion (at this point) is that perhaps the culprit is the EasyBeads and not the soy. 🤷‍♀️

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...