4627 Sooting problem

[AustinCandleMaker]

I'm having a hell of a time wicking 4627.
Candle Science prefers LX series.
Looking through the forums, I see that people swear by HTP series.

I've tried them both and they both soot.

I am adding a small amount of vybar 260 to the batch.

At this time this is only a base wick test.  No color.  No scent.

Any suggestions?

[TallTayl]

Have you tried without vybar?

[AustinCandleMaker]

I'm going to do that this evening.  Just thought I'd ask and see if anyone else might know

[bfroberts]

It will burn differently when you add FO.  I wouldn't add any vybar.  LX will work fine, once you add FO and get the size dialed in.  What size wick and container have you tried?

[AustinCandleMaker]

9 minutes ago, bfroberts said:

It will burn differently when you add FO.  I wouldn't add any vybar.  LX will work fine, once you add FO and get the size dialed in.  What size wick and container have you tried?

8oz Jelly Jar 2.75" diameter
LX 14,16, 18
HTP 83, 104

[bfroberts]

For that jar, LX 16 is where I'd start once you add FO.  I've never burned 4627 without FO, but with waxes I have burned with no FO, they typically take a size or so bigger wick without.

[AustinCandleMaker]

31 minutes ago, bfroberts said:

For that jar, LX 16 is where I'd start once you add FO.  I've never burned 4627 without FO, but with waxes I have burned with no FO, they typically take a size or so bigger wick without.

That's where i started.  But i added the vybar and run the wick test with one above and one below the recommended wick.
I wont be using the vybar for my next test run.

I prefer to do a wick test with no FO to be sure the wick/wax combo is working as expected before introducing FO

 

Thanks

[AustinCandleMaker]

1 hour ago, bfroberts said:

For that jar, LX 16 is where I'd start once you add FO.  I've never burned 4627 without FO, but with waxes I have burned with no FO, they typically take a size or so bigger wick without.

That's where i started.  But i added the vybar and run the wick test with one above and one below the recommended wick.
I wont be using the vybar for my next test run.

I prefer to do a wick test with no FO to be sure the container/wick/wax combo is working as expected before introducing FO

 

Thanks

[Darbla]

You want the least amount of FO you can get by with to still get a good scent throw, paired with the the right size HTP wick, and trim trim trim.  Also how drafty is it where you're testing?  Honestly that's not something you can control when the candle is in someone else's house, but I've noticed the more draft hitting my candles, the more they throw soot.

[bfroberts]

2 hours ago, AustinCandleMaker said:

That's where i started.  But i added the vybar and run the wick test with one above and one below the recommended wick.
I wont be using the vybar for my next test run.

I prefer to do a wick test with no FO to be sure the container/wick/wax combo is working as expected before introducing FO

 

Thanks

I get where you are coming from, and I totally agree that it is always a good idea to know how your wax burns with nothing added.  My point is, it will likely burn differently when you add FO, dye, etc.  IME with other waxes, I usually need a larger wick when burning wax with no FO added.  So, just because LX 16-18-etc. isn't giving you the desired results now, doesn't mean that wick series ultimately won't work.  I thought LX and HTP both worked well in 4627 with 6% FO load and liquid dye.  I'd wick conservatively with moderate FO load for the cleanest burn.  4627 is a great wax with a great throw.  It's just too messy for me.  Good luck!

[TallTayl]

The baseline is a great first step to know how your case of wax burns with no other variables. You can pop a quick tester together on each new lot and know you have a good base to build your scented and colored candles on later with confidence (because you have already isolated and proven  that one main variable). If the next case burns waaaay differently at Least you know where to start tweaking. 
 

from there, yes, you will need to wick up/down depending on fragrance. 

[ErronB]

4627 is probably the strongest throwing wax I've ever used, I've got no idea why you would try and add vybar to it.

 

I don't know the witchcraft behind LX wicks I cannot for the life of me get them to even remotely self-trim, HTP does work pretty good but it rarely ever does a totally clean burn even at 6%. Off the top of my head in a 8oz jelly jar I think I ended up using HTP 83 for those most of the time, but there was no escaping the soot and smoke unless you add some soy. Tins were better for that reason because they are wider than they are taller.

 

4630 burned cleaner for me with HTP.

Edited March 25, 2020 by ErronB

[AustinCandleMaker]

9 hours ago, ErronB said:

4627 is probably the strongest throwing wax I've ever used, I've got no idea why you would try and add vybar to it.

 

I don't know the witchcraft behind LX wicks I cannot for the life of me get them to even remotely self-trim, HTP does work pretty good but it rarely ever does a totally clean burn even at 6%. Off the top of my head in a 8oz jelly jar I think I ended up using HTP 83 for those most of the time, but there was no escaping the soot and smoke unless you add some soy. Tins were better for that reason because they are wider than they are taller.

 

4630 burned cleaner for me with HTP.

I live in Texas and in the heat of the summer I was told using vybar raises the melt point and helps keep the candle from "slumping"

[TallTayl]

2 hours ago, AustinCandleMaker said:

I live in Texas and in the heat of the summer I was told using vybar raises the melt point and helps keep the candle from "slumping"

If heat is a big issue, you may want to consider blending with or switching to a more “sturdy” paraffin, such as 4786. 
 

vybar is like adding “glue” to your wax.  While it may “possibly” help stabilize, it can very easily “lock” the scent so it is not easily thrown into the air. This becomes a circuitous effort to increase wick and scent load to overcome the normal characteristics of vybar, which then means more FO, then more wick, more vybar, etc. 

 

perhaps test your current 4627 during the worst weather in your area to see if it will even be a problem.  Loads of companies use it as-is with apparently little to no reported trouble. 

[AustinCandleMaker]

14 hours ago, bfroberts said:

I get where you are coming from, and I totally agree that it is always a good idea to know how your wax burns with nothing added.  My point is, it will likely burn differently when you add FO, dye, etc.  IME with other waxes, I usually need a larger wick when burning wax with no FO added.  So, just because LX 16-18-etc. isn't giving you the desired results now, doesn't mean that wick series ultimately won't work.  I thought LX and HTP both worked well in 4627 with 6% FO load and liquid dye.  I'd wick conservatively with moderate FO load for the cleanest burn.  4627 is a great wax with a great throw.  It's just too messy for me.  Good luck!

 

Thanks

 

I'm working with 4627 because one of my product lines requires vibrant colors.

Couldn't get that from Soy.

I saw a trick from somewhere else here on craft server to put it in the refrigerator.

It does help working with it.  I just cover everything and use gloves and that keeps things in check pretty well

 

 

[AustinCandleMaker]

1 minute ago, TallTayl said:

If heat is a big issue, you may want to consider blending with or switching to a more “sturdy” paraffin, such as 4786. 
 

vybar is like adding “glue” to your wax.  While it may “possibly” help stabilize, it can very easily “lock” the scent so it is not easily thrown into the air. This becomes a circuitous effort to increase wick and scent load to overcome the normal characteristics of vybar, which then means more FO, then more wick, more vybar, etc. 

 

perhaps test your current 4627 during the worst weather in your area to see if it will even be a problem.  Loads of companies use it as-is with apparently little to no reported trouble. 

 

 

Awesome.  Thanks for the advise

[bfroberts]

On 3/24/2020 at 11:34 PM, ErronB said:

I don't know the witchcraft behind LX wicks I cannot for the life of me get them to even remotely self-trim, HTP does work pretty good but it rarely ever does a totally clean burn even at 6%.

 

LX don't curl the way HTP, CD, etc. do, but if correctly wicked, you don't usually have to trim on the re-light.  The burned portion burns right off and you are left with an appropriately sized wick and flame.  It may look like you need to trim prior to lighting, but you really don't.  

Edited March 26, 2020 by bfroberts

[ErronB]

10 hours ago, bfroberts said:

 

LX don't curl the way HTP, CD, etc. do, but if correctly wicked, you don't usually have to trim on the re-light.  The burned portion burns right off and you are left with an appropriately sized wick and flame.  It may look like you need to trim prior to lighting, but you really don't.  

 

So you trim to 1/4 before lighting the first time and that's what they like?

[NightLight]

This wax soots.to make it less sooty you should add some soy, try 15 per cent. It will help. What I see with many paraffin candles is a solid dark container, maybe not the look you want. It’s a toss up with this wax, great color and throw, paraffin soot. Lx can work nicely in the wax and it’s a pretty wick. You can still get great color adding more soy, test and see where this stops. More soy less soot.

[bfroberts]

11 hours ago, ErronB said:

 

So you trim to 1/4 before lighting the first time and that's what they like?

Yep, that's pretty much it. 
This is a 6" tall x 3" diameter container that I've been testing with a Vanilla Cashmere FO and CBL125 w/an LX.  Been test burning this one on and off for two weeks and never a trim.  You can see the self-trimmed debris in the melted wax.   There is a tiny bit of soot, but this thing has been in drafts, has been burned for 5-6-7 hours sometimes, all totally unmaintained.  I think that's pretty good for paraffin, no trimming, in a tall container. 

[ErronB]

9 hours ago, bfroberts said:

Yep, that's pretty much it. 
This is a 6" tall x 3" diameter container that I've been testing with a Vanilla Cashmere FO and CBL125 w/an LX.  Been test burning this one on and off for two weeks and never a trim.  You can see the self-trimmed debris in the melted wax.   There is a tiny bit of soot, but this thing has been in drafts, has been burned for 5-6-7 hours sometimes, all totally unmaintained.  I think that's pretty good for paraffin, no trimming, in a tall container. 

Very nice, and thanks for posting the pics it's always good to see a visual.