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Hey guys,
I‘ve been doing so much research on all things candles that wax is running through my veins. 
During my research I‘ve found a method that suggests adding FO as cold as possible and pouring cold instead of manufacturer’s instructions of adding FO at a certain higher temperature. The reasoning for this method being that FO and wax doesn’t „bind“ as it‘s often proclaimed, but rather mixes/dissolves. And when FO is added at high temperatures it‘s being burned of, no „binding“ occurs. Now this reasoning sounds perfectly reasonable to me as 1) manufacturers often sell FO and when it‘s burned off during curing we are supposed to add more for a good throw, 2) „binding“ of wax and FO doesn’t really make sense as that would imply that those two components would form a new molecule and finally 3) during the time the wax cools it‘s basically at full melt pool for a long time, releasing scent until the wax has hardened. 
So I‘m wondering if any of you have tried this and how your results have been.
I’ve tried this with a coconut+rapeseed+beeswax blend +10%FO but my throw isn’t as great as I had hoped, now I don’t know if I’m nose blind to the scent I’ve been testing, the wick doesn’t work or if I didn’t stir for long enough (definitely didn’t stir for 2 minutes) 


I‘m slowly losing my mind over here hehe 

 

Thanks 

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Adding FO cold is a good recipe fo pooling and seeping of FO. If using a lower flashpoint fragrance, that pooling and seeping is a fire hazard,  there is no conspiracy by FO sellers here, just bad advice.

 

Quality FO will withstand any temp you throw at it and will produce fab HT.  Example, palm wax requires temps in excess of 200*F and holds a max of 6%  FO . Some formate of palm hold even less, yet easily can outperform most of those soy and paraffin candles with 12% FO and “cold” pouring temps. 

 

Many wax blends contain components (emulsifiers, structurants, etc) that independently have very different drop points. If you don’t heat the entire mass to the recommended temps to fully remelt and incorporate those components you will often get odd crystal formation that may not be initially visible to the naked eye. 
 

If you want an eye opening experience that replicates what damage a candle can do in someone’s home, do a little experiment where it is safe to do so.  Let some low FP oil pool in the bottom of a jar with a little wax, then hold a match to it.  You will have essentially made a fire ball. Keep these things in mind as you create products for use in people’s’ homes. Their safety is of much greater concern than supposedly preserving a little HT. 

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6 hours ago, TallTayl said:

Adding FO cold is a good recipe fo pooling and seeping of FO. If using a lower flashpoint fragrance, that pooling and seeping is a fire hazard,  there is no conspiracy by FO sellers here, just bad advice.

 

Quality FO will withstand any temp you throw at it and will produce fab HT.  Example, palm wax requires temps in excess of 200*F and holds a max of 6%  FO . Some formate of palm hold even less, yet easily can outperform most of those soy and paraffin candles with 12% FO and “cold” pouring temps. 

 

Many wax blends contain components (emulsifiers, structurants, etc) that independently have very different drop points. If you don’t heat the entire mass to the recommended temps to fully remelt and incorporate those components you will often get odd crystal formation that may not be initially visible to the naked eye. 
 

If you want an eye opening experience that replicates what damage a candle can do in someone’s home, do a little experiment where it is safe to do so.  Let some low FP oil pool in the bottom of a jar with a little wax, then hold a match to it.  You will have essentially made a fire ball. Keep these things in mind as you create products for use in people’s’ homes. Their safety is of much greater concern than supposedly preserving a little HT. 

I haven’t had the seeping or pooling issue but the throw was really bad, which usually isn’t the case with this wax. But I do see where you‘re coming from, I was just hoping this might be a possibility to increase throw even more (apart from using proper wick etc) 

I‘m sorry if it was dumb of me to ask but I‘ve seen this suggested in videos, even by a candle scientist. 

https://youtu.be/c7OnNZou2bU

https://youtu.be/_akWOi6lug4


I definitely want to make my candles as safe as possible and am making sure I extensively test them. 
Do you happen to have a recommendation for great high quality fragrance oils? 

Thank you so so much for you insight! 

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There are other posts regarding the Alex method if memory serves me right. I’ve tested both from time to time and the ht was the same. There were a few differences, not many. 

As of Saturday I poured testers with my 50/50 blend of 464 and 4630. I added the fo below 130. Stirred for 2 min. Yes, the wax was clouded but still liquid. One they solidified the ct was stronger than I’d had ever! I can’t expl this phenomenon. I lit 2 out of 3, 3 days later, ht amazing, still scratching my head! I thought maybe the fo was sitting on top of the wax and not fully incorporated but they are burning beautifully. No fireballs, thank goodness.

Im guessing if I were to repeat this process things might turn out yet another way!

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16 hours ago, CandleRush said:

There are other posts regarding the Alex method if memory serves me right. I’ve tested both from time to time and the ht was the same. There were a few differences, not many. 

As of Saturday I poured testers with my 50/50 blend of 464 and 4630. I added the fo below 130. Stirred for 2 min. Yes, the wax was clouded but still liquid. One they solidified the ct was stronger than I’d had ever! I can’t expl this phenomenon. I lit 2 out of 3, 3 days later, ht amazing, still scratching my head! I thought maybe the fo was sitting on top of the wax and not fully incorporated but they are burning beautifully. No fireballs, thank goodness.

Im guessing if I were to repeat this process things might turn out yet another way!

Interesting, thank you for sharing your experience! Weird that it always turns out different though 🙈

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The tag line for that video, "Perfect Candles Every Time," is very misleading.  I don't know this YouTuber and I don't know what his qualifications are, but if he's never used an FO that wouldn't blend in at Alex method temps, he's can't be widely experienced.  I have multiple FO's that will not incorporate at temps that low. Some barely want to cooperate at 185, so I give them extra stir time on the heat source. Not once has the throw been diminished due to this.  YouTube advice is notoriously unreliable.  

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You must at 180 degrees and above. The wax is very liquid and all the fragrance molecules can really get into the wax. Candles fragrances are hardy. Ones that may not throw well they are probs not strong anyway. You really do need to stir well.

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To be fair, those have been you’re experiences and to say you must heat at 180 and above and if you’ve never tested the Alex method do you really know the results? My testing IS valid and I know the results. Adding fo 130 and even lower gave me great results 5 out of 5 had cold and hot throws that were strong.

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On 3/11/2020 at 4:06 PM, CandleRush said:

To be fair, those have been you’re experiences and to say you must heat at 180 and above and if you’ve never tested the Alex method do you really know the results? My testing IS valid and I know the results. Adding fo 130 and even lower gave me great results 5 out of 5 had cold and hot throws that were strong.

Are you still doing the Alex method?

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Every now and then! You can read my comments above where I had great results. I repeated the same process yesterday with my testers and the cold throws were strong. Today I lit them and the hot throws, 2 out of 3 testers were strong. This round of tests I mixed in f.o. At 140. Stirred 2 min. The same wax as I used in my above comment. Perfectly smooth candles, no seeping, eco wicks.

When I first started making candles I used the Alex method. So many here were naysayers and maybe for them and their wax it might be true what they say but I’ve had success. I then started to do what everyone else recommended but my results were all over the place, not fully content I went back to the Alex method a variation where I added fo lower. Manufacturers have have their guidelines but I think you have to test other methods. This may not work for everyone but it has for me. 

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I did see this interesting article from Candlewic awhile ago, so the information out there can definitely be conflicting.  Note, the low temp looks like it mostly applies to soy.  I am guessing that is because soy cools slower?

received_295371847821056.jpeg

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Woud you see the seeping right away?  Or after a week or for. . .  The reason I ask, I've made candles that looked great.  Then a couple weeks later, had oil seeping on the tops.  I wasn't using the Alex method by the way.

GoldieMN

Edited by GoldieMN

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1 hour ago, GoldieMN said:

Woud you see the seeping right away?  Or after a week or for. . .  The reason I ask, I've made candles that looked great.  Then a couple weeks later, had oil seeping on the tops.  I wasn't using the Alex method by the way.

GoldieMN

I have seen it weeks later, especially if there’s a temp change. Crystallization continues for many weeks with waxes like soy. 
 

even American Soy Organics warned about “Fragrance Drift” in their waxes. Some of the worst pooling and seepage I ever had was with midwest soy. the absolute worst was their advice for improving HT WITH “high melt point coconut at 10%”. I had to mop the seepage off the tops in warm humid months. 

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