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Hogue

HELP - Coconut Wax & Wicks

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Hello, I am new to candle making and have been reading all the topics on coconut wax and I still feel like I haven’t figured out a solid answer. 
 

I use coconut wax 83 from California candle supply. 
 

I’m having such a hard time finding the right wick. I’m currently using eco 4. Diameter of my jar is 2.25”. The first burn was great, the second burn the flame was big and there is now soot on the jar. I have read in here I need to size down, but how far down? I seen other people were mixing soy or stearic acid. Did anyone find a way to just use the coconut 83 wax the way it is? The large flame and soot is so discouraging. I also order 45 more lbs of this wax, so I need to make it work. 

I appreciate any help!!

 

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Eco are pretty hot wicks. I have gone as low as eco1 in that size jar. 
Other choices for wick, depending on your fragrance, Cd, csn, cdn, cotton core. 
 

coco83 is pretty soft, with a relatively low melt point so you will be forever trying to balance the heat of the flame with the consumption. 

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"Did anyone find a way to just use the coconut 83 wax the way it is?"
 

Short answer: no
 I'm mad at that wax ;)   I found it basically unwickable to my satisfaction. I'm grateful that their past supply/stock issues got me looking for a better wax.
Good riddance!

 

Edited by pughaus
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@pughaus what wax do you use? I just ordered 45 more lbs of coconut wax because the new wick I got was good on the first burn. Second burn proved me wrong 😞

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I use the coconut blend from Candles and Supplies so I don't know if this will be helpful but I use HTP wicks. I found the ECO and CD wicks burned too hot for my formula.

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10 hours ago, Hogue said:

@TallTayl did you find a wick that kept a low flame, and didn’t produce soot on the side of the jar?

I found that balance between heat and rate of consumption helps. I decided against that wax for many reasons.  Like pughaus above, it pushed me to develop my own wax and I have never been happier. 

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2 hours ago, TallTayl said:

I found that balance between heat and rate of consumption helps. I decided against that wax for many reasons.  Like pughaus above, it pushed me to develop my own wax and I have never been happier. 

@TallTayl What do you suggest I do at this point? I am so disappointed I ordered 45 more lbs of this wax, before figuring out this issue. I just started making candles, and I really love doing it. I wanted to start selling them, but I can't sell them the way they are right now. Should I buy 464 soy to mix with it the coconut 83 from Cali Candle? I'm so lost on what to do at this point, and I keep digging my self a deeper hole financially. Thank you all for your help. I feel a bit defeated at the moment. :( 

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1 hour ago, Hogue said:

@TallTayl What do you suggest I do at this point? I am so disappointed I ordered 45 more lbs of this wax, before figuring out this issue. I just started making candles, and I really love doing it. I wanted to start selling them, but I can't sell them the way they are right now. Should I buy 464 soy to mix with it the coconut 83 from Cali Candle? I'm so lost on what to do at this point, and I keep digging my self a deeper hole financially. Thank you all for your help. I feel a bit defeated at the moment. :( 

Well,  the only thing anyone can recommend is to test every wick and FO/container combo. Test through all of the seasons because candles DO perform differently over time. 

 

you may find, like most of us did, that coco83 needs to be blended to become adequate. 
 

or, try wickless.  Some of this wax in a metal tin on a coffee cup warmer might surprise you. 

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@TallTayl I don't mind blending it, that is why I asked about 464 wax. This is all new to me, I don't know how to blend waxes. While doing research on what to do I found this site. I was hoping this community of creators would be able to help me on that. 

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2 hours ago, Hogue said:

@TallTayl I don't mind blending it, that is why I asked about 464 wax. This is all new to me, I don't know how to blend waxes. While doing research on what to do I found this site. I was hoping this community of creators would be able to help me on that. 

When trying new blends, I usually go in 10% increments. So first, 90% coco83 and 10% 464. Let it cure a week and light.  If it does not solve the burn and flame issues, I’d go 80% coconut, 20% 464, the. 70% to 30%,  etc.  

 

note, The 464 (or whatever was you choose to blend) may be different from case to case.  Natural waxes can vary within a very wide range of acceptable. limit your variables until you get a real feel for your wax (es). Unfortunately there is no substitute for time when it comes to candles. Form  your baseline with as few variables as possible, so same containers, no fragrance, no color... every single variable changes your baseline,  so anything you change may land you back to square 1.

 

Then.... an awful lot depends on your exact case of coconut 83.  As pughaus noted above, it has long suffered from supply chain problems.  I got through testing, and then they were out of it for months. Some of that seems to be linked to raw material supply chain too. Every single lot number (cases) of it are entirely different. It is like learning a new wax all over again. If I wanted that hassle I would just go back to soy. 

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On 2/13/2020 at 11:08 AM, Hogue said:

@TallTayl What do you suggest I do at this point? I am so disappointed I ordered 45 more lbs of this wax, before figuring out this issue. I just started making candles, and I really love doing it. I wanted to start selling them, but I can't sell them the way they are right now. Should I buy 464 soy to mix with it the coconut 83 from Cali Candle? I'm so lost on what to do at this point, and I keep digging my self a deeper hole financially. Thank you all for your help. I feel a bit defeated at the moment. :( 

 

Hi Hogue. Sorry to say it but welcome to the life of a candle maker, LOL. We've all been there and done that, don't feel bad or defeated. Believe me, I too have felt defeated and disgusted so many times with this hobby but I've either become addicted to the process or have finally drove myself crazy, LOL. Seems like people either love it and keep at it or end up hating it and run, not walk, away. 😄 🏃‍♀️  Enjoy!

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On 2/13/2020 at 11:08 AM, Hogue said:

@TallTayl What do you suggest I do at this point? I am so disappointed I ordered 45 more lbs of this wax, before figuring out this issue. I just started making candles, and I really love doing it. I wanted to start selling them, but I can't sell them the way they are right now. Should I buy 464 soy to mix with it the coconut 83 from Cali Candle? I'm so lost on what to do at this point, and I keep digging my self a deeper hole financially. Thank you all for your help. I feel a bit defeated at the moment. :( 

 

Hey @Hogue. Don't forget to do searches on here for topics you are interested in, there is a treasure trove of helpful data in here. If you are having a problem with something then I'm sure someone else on here has had the same issue and has posted about it. When I first joined this forum, over a year ago, I spent lots of hours searching topics, reading and testing stuff out. It's a great source and there are a lot of knowledgeable and friendly people on here, a mix of hobbyists and successful business people.

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1 minute ago, Hogue said:

Thank you @TallTayl & @Laura C! I really appreciate the advice. I have been doing my research and I really hope I can put this 45 + lbs to use!!

 

 

 

You're welcome. Get creative, get to work, you can do it! LOL.

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Hi everyone! I'm seeing here that there are a lot of negative reviews on the coconut 83 wax. I too have been getting sooting issues, but mine occur about 4th-5th burn. I've been using CD wicks sz. 14, 12, 10 with a 3" straight sided jar and 8% fragrance. I'm having the least amount of sooting with size 10 but still have some hang-up. My flame size seems fine aside from flickering.  I don't mind switching waxes if seems that it will save me from major future headaches. I do like to keep things simple and blending seems to add quite a bit of variables that may complicate things further for my beginner style! Does anyone have any all natural  paraffin free coconut/soy  recommendations that seem to be less wick challenging?  Any suggestions would be great!!!

P.S. I think I'm close,  but really want to have some good consistency before selling and I get the feeling that this Coconut 83 wax without blending may prevent it. :D  😜😆

 

 

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Edited by Candlefriends

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 @Hogue

I hope you don't mind about hi-jacking your thread since this is same subject.

 

@Candlefriends

It is kind of amazing that you haven't had soot issue up to this point.  You might want try 3 more wick test before you moving away from using Coconut 83.

1. CD #8 (Don't worry about this size being too small.  It appears to me that it might work better than CD 10, 12 or 14.)

2. Put together two CD 6 (see below pictures for how to put them together)

3. Put together two CD 4 (same method as above) or maybe combine CD 4 & CD 6

 

*This is my wild idea of how to make flame bigger to achieve bigger melt pool without delivering too much fuel to end of wick, which is cause for soot & mushroom, by using  multi smaller size wicks to limit the wax flow in wick.  This method works for soy wax.  Be creative and have fun both of you!

 

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20160804_001522.thumb.jpg.2637101ffbaf20d97a1fe61ec133b257.jpg

 

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11 hours ago, BusyBee said:

 

@Candlefriends

It is kind of amazing that you haven't had soot issue up to this point.  You might want try 3 more wick test before you moving away from using Coconut 83.

1. CD #8 (Don't worry about this size being too small.  It appears to me that it might work better than CD 10, 12 or 14.)

2. Put together two CD 6 (see below pictures for how to put them together)

3. Put together two CD 4 (same method as above) or maybe combine CD 4 & CD 6

 

*This is my wild idea of how to make flame bigger to achieve bigger melt pool without delivering too much fuel to end of wick, which is cause for soot & mushroom, by using  multi smaller size wicks to limit the wax flow in wick.  This method works for soy wax.  Be creative and have fun both of you!

 

That's an interesting idea @BusyBee. How does it perform?

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CD/Stabilo wicks are "non-directional". But here's something to keep in mind when using wicks that are no longer attached to their original base tab. Some wicks are "directional" and some are not, I can't remember which ones are and not all wick sellers supply this information. "Directional" means that the wick was manufactured to effectively consume or draw up the melted wax in only one direction. When using wick pieces be certain that you are inserting the wicks in the correct direction or you may get unpredictable results. I have seen odd results first hand. To make life easy I just always assume a wick is directional once I cut the tab off.

 

Directional wick example: https://wicksunlimited.com/wicks/wedo-candle-wicks/wedo-rrd-wicks/

Non-Directional CD/Stabilo (and CDN/Stabilo KST) wick info: https://wicksunlimited.com/wicks/heinz-candle-wicks/

 

Wick Manufactures that list if a wick they make is directional or not.

https://wicksunlimited.com/wicks/

http://www.atkinsandpearce.com/candle-solutions/

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I tried this on 100% soy wax to increase capillary action of the wick, which worked nicely except for the fact this is too much time consuming trying to put two wick together.  When you get into mass production, this will be a real hassle.  I have contacted wick assembler to have them do this for me, but answer I got from them was "NO".  Now, I have better method to wick my soy wax candle to increase capillary action by miles.  But, that wicking method did not work for Coconut 83.

 

I am thinking same method can be applied to decrease capillary action on much leaner Coconut 83 wax by putting much smaller wicks together.  It would create bigger flame to achieve bigger melt pool without delivering too much fuel to end of the wick.  I am not 100% on this.  This is just my wild guess on Coconut 83 wicking, but this method does work on soy wax to control capillary action to my liking.

*One thing to note:  Gap between two wicks will create another capillary action outside of wick.  This needs to be keep in mind to control capillary action.

 

@Laura C

Only wick that are one directional that I know are "RRD" & "P" series by Wedo.  But, I did make sure that wick stays on same direction where it came assembled just to be on safe side.

*Just maybe, using bigger size RRD on Coconut 83 on opposite direction might work???  Purpose of this to decrease capillary action.

 

Wax, FO, & other ingredients in everyone's candle will require different wicks.  This is the only method that I know how to play with wicks without ordering my customized wick.  From materials, braiding, sizing, chemical treatment, wax treatment, etc.

 

Once again, have fun & be creative with what is available on the market!  I have read many other wilder idea in this forum about other creative way of wicking, too.

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On 2/12/2020 at 7:37 PM, Hogue said:

@pughaus what wax do you use? I just ordered 45 more lbs of coconut wax because the new wick I got was good on the first burn. Second burn proved me wrong 😞

I make my own blend now out of plain (no additives) soy, para and coconut oil. Simple, easy to obtain ingredients and best of all I know exactly what's in my wax and how much.  

Like talltayl, I suggest you add soy to your coco83 to make that 45 lbs you've got workable.  I used to do a 50:50 blend of 415 : coco83 and it was...ok.

Less soy wasn't enough IMO to control the flame,adequately, more soy led to the usual soy appearance stuff.  

 

The sooting/flame size was much reduced with a 50:50 ratio but sinkholes were common in certain containers, and you'll need to deal with those.  Adhesion was.. pox-like. LOL
 

Even at 50% soy I never used bigger than a cd8 in a 3" tumbler, except with one very heavy FO that took a CD10.  CD 8, htp 83 and 93 were my go to wicks for a 3" dia.

(I rarely trim wicks between test burns and always burn in a min 4hr  increment.)
 

That said, it's been years since I bought coco83 and the wax today may be very different than what you have (another reason I stopped using preblended mystery ingredient "coco" waxes)  


 

I hope that helps!

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