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Altore

Strange! The flame becomes very small

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Hello,

 

I just joined this forum and am happy to share with you in this great community.
I often read a few pages of exchanges to learn.
I have been working on the molded candle for about 3 years and have been launching myself for a few months in the scented candle containing it. What a strange world!

 

I am faced with a strange phenomenon during my wicking tests. Do you have any opinions?

 

This phenomenon is systematic in large containers type 3 wicks. With two different scents the same problem
At the beginning of the container I have large flames.
I would be tempted to say that my wicks are too big with too large pools of cast iron. Knowing that this is only the beginning of the burn and that the rest will be even hotter.
But during about the third burn or half of the container the flames become very small. Really very small.
Without cutting the wicks at any time.

I use TCR natural waxed wicks.
 FO: 10% in these models.
With or without color, the phenomenon is the same. Vegetable soy wax.

I also have the impression of having this phenomenon in smaller containers.

Do you have an idea?


Thank you and good day

 

Fabrice

Edited by Altore

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Could be a few things.
 

Perhaps the wicks  are too big and drown as they become choked for oxygen further in the burn 

 

could be the FO is either clogging or otherwise inhibiting the wicks

 

could be just too much fragrance

 

if the candles burn fine unscented then it pinpoints the FO as the culprit. Whether a specific fragrance or too much of that fragrance. 
 

have you performed a baseline test of your candles with unscented wax?

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I'm betting it's the FO. When there is too much of it (or an awkward one) that's exactly what happens.

 

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I am suspecting you are using KeraSoy with TCR wick both of which are not available in US.   I don't have experience with any of them, but here are my 2 guesses.

 

1. Starved oxygen down the container

2. Amount of fragrance the wick is having to burn through

 

What is your container size and what size wick did you use?  *I am pretty sure that you are using FOs manufactured in France.

If you can upload your candle picture, then we might be able to get better understanding of your situation.

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Thank you very much for your opinion 😉

 

Perhaps the wicks are too big and drown as they become choked for oxygen further in the burn?
- The flames are so small to lack oxygen.
I had tested on a small container with small wicks and I had a large tunnel from the start which indicated a size of wick too small. No basin despite more than 4 hours of burning. With very strong wicks (almost the most powerful): very small flame. I have this phenomenon with a particular FO or I can't find the wick size.
I have just made new tests currently in rest with lower loads of FO.

 

could be just too much fragrance
- I'm starting to follow this answer seriously.
I also wonder if the fact of making a nice surface with the heat gun would not decrease the load of FO at the beginning which would allow a correct start before the problem occurs. Is it possible?

 

have you done a basic test of your candles with unscented wax?
- No, very good idea!

 

I'm betting it's the FO. When there is too much of it (or an awkward one) that's exactly what happens.
- Thanks 😉

 

I am suspecting you are using KeraSoy with TCR wick both of which are not available in US.
- TCR wicks are flat cotton wicks. With paper core
- It is not Kerasoy from Kerax but a wax made in France 100% vegetable. Other brands use this wax successfully here.
For now the FO come from candle-shack in England.

Large containers where this problem is systematic are 4.33 inch in diameter. I use test bits of 27/16 or 24/14.
With an FO, the flames had become so small that you could barely see them.

 

I will try to send photos.

 

 

Thank you and good day

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299/5000
 
 
 
Here is an example. While at the beginning the flames are large, the pool of cast iron too large (max 0.708661 inch).
This indicates to me that it is necessary to lower the size of the wicks because it is only the first burns.
Then flames so small that the wax is barely melted on the surface of the basin.

IMG_20200113_150241.jpg

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Small glass Diameter 2.55906 inch
Left: FO 9% wick 33/18 (powerful wick indicated for burning with a glass diameter of 3.93701 inch)!
Right: F0 8% wick 27/16 ( indicated for burns with a diameter of 3.14961 inch

I'm going crazy!

IMG_20200202_123918.jpg

Edited by Altore

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Could be the colorant clogging the wick as well. I would a/b test wi5 and without color, and also without fragrance.

you could also do a test reducing fragrance and see if that helps. 
 

test

no color no fragrance

no color lower fragrance

no color fragrance percentage you have been using

 

you may have to go up or down wick sizes.

 

i would def start with no no fragrance, then add on.

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Paper cores and soy wax are a difficult match.  Soy burns better with hotter wick materials, like cotton and Coreless wicks. 

  • Thanks 1

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That is a strange phenomenon as you have described.  If it were FO or dye clogging the wick problem, then it should have started within 30 minutes into the burn.  I don't think it is problem of lack of oxygen down the container either.  Then, what could it be? 

 

Only thing I can suspect is the wick.  

1. We have strange wick here in US that is called Cottonwood wick.  This wick will perform excellent for 2 hours.  But, once you pass 2 hours, it becomes monster.  I am still confused & amazed by this Cottonwood wick.  This wick drove me crazy for a while.

2. Even though TCR wick might be popular wick for soy wax candle in UK or Europe, it might not be the right wick for your candle set up.  Here in US, ECO is very popular recommended wick for soy wax candle, but it does not work for many many people.

 

Sorry that I am not able to offer you with exact solution.  Good luck to you!

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Hi Fabrice,

 

Do a test no fragrance no color

Do a test 6 per cent fragrance no color

 

Are you able to get any other wicks to test?

Look at some of the wick tests on the forum, there are photos.

Very different results with various wicks and waxes

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OKAY,

Thanks for your help. It is not easy to start with problems like this. 🤯

 

I will proceed methodically to find and inform in return. If other people are concerned.

As for color, I don't think so because I have this problem on my three wicks without color. (with FO)
Thank you

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Pour some plain tester and try different size wicks - try a larger wick size.

It could incompatible wicks and wax. Have you tried other fragrance companies? Maybe it’s oils and what they use as dilute the your wicks and wax combo not working with. Yes you have to be super methodical to pinpoint what is issue.

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Hello,

I hope you are doing well in these times. I come back to you to share my results and conclusions for others who would encounter this problem:

Following these problems:

- Test with other suppliers of FO without dyes dosed strongly at 10%, identical wicks: All the candles worked very well.
- Candle test with dye, identical wicks, no FO: Work well
- With addition of FO = Problem from a dosage of 7% (6% works well)
- Candle test even wick with FO 9% ..8% ..10% and dye from another supplier: Works well.
- Large candle test 3 wicks with or without dye and without FO: Work well


Conclusion:
My problems seem to come from:
- FO
- Association for an FO between the wick, the FO, and the dye which came to saturate the wick. Over time the flame decreases, the wick can no longer give its normal power. With another dye from another supplier dosed lower, it works well.

Thank you all for your help.
 

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