NightLight Posted September 17, 2019 Share Posted September 17, 2019 I had a box of 464 stored away and decided to break it out and play with it. I am adding 2 per cent beeswax to smooth out the top EXCEPT I get a small circular ring crack! Now when the candle is lit and cooled there is no issue of cracks. I tried 150 down to 100 ( worse top). So now am thinking higher temp better result. Am I on the right track? Feel free to PM. Also this box of wax, I have had cavities happening as well. And frustrating it can be Candles poured at same time. What’s with that with this wax. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightLight Posted September 17, 2019 Author Share Posted September 17, 2019 This is a very very fine circular crack not a major deep one FYI Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightLight Posted September 18, 2019 Author Share Posted September 18, 2019 Bump!, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRoomGraduate Posted September 18, 2019 Share Posted September 18, 2019 Have you tried it without the beeswax? 464 is all I use, and I have great success with pouring hot for smooth tops and stellar glass adhesion. My sweet spot seems to be 155-160F. I do get those super thin circular cracks around the wick occasionally with certain jars. Usually when I'm not being careful with my pouring and pour too quickly. Tumblers seem to avoid getting that crack entirely, smaller mouthed jars of a similar height I see it happen more frequently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightLight Posted September 18, 2019 Author Share Posted September 18, 2019 Purpose is to have smooth afterburn, which beeswax gives to the wax. Its a super pain to get perfect top and I hate heat gunning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallTayl Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 Beeswax has a load of its own issues. It varies from lot to lot. To make matters worse it dries over time leading to vastly different wick requirements from one month to a year. My living for the last decade depended on beeswax, and I fought the good fight all along with a goal to fall within a range of acceptable for my beeswax fans. Soy blends took up a lot of slack for people who feel safer burning a container candle. Plus soy blends appeal to the vegan buyers, so an entire market space opened up without doing any extra work. For soy, and soy blends, a bit of coconut wax, not coconut oil, has been a saving grace. It stays relatively stable, and when wicked well leaves a beautiful finish after production and after burning. Coconut wax contains it own set of stabilizers and emulsifiers, so the risk of overburdening the soy with loose oils is minimized greatly. I treat the coconut wax as I did paraffin to solve the shortcomings of most manufactured soy blends. At the end end of the day, Soy candle lovers don’t care a whole heck of a lot about the after burn finish. They just want a safe, good smelling candle that burns clean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRoomGraduate Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 I bought soy candles for years before I ever made them, it never occurred to me to be concerned about the rough surface after a burn. I've never had anyone mention it who has burned my candles. Personally it's not something I bother worrying with. Just throwing it out there as a suggestion. I love 464, it's a great wax that I don't feel needs to be blended with anything to get great results. Might be worth a shot if you're just experimenting with the wax you have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightLight Posted September 19, 2019 Author Share Posted September 19, 2019 I need a certain look with my candles for the audience I want to reach and they expect a beautiful candle right off surface wise and afterburn. I discarded the beeswax tho I liked it but it was a pain to get first pour perfect. Found other solution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
candlesinflorida Posted September 21, 2019 Share Posted September 21, 2019 On 9/19/2019 at 1:42 PM, TallTayl said: Beeswax has a load of its own issues. It varies from lot to lot. To make matters worse it dries over time leading to vastly different wick requirements from one month to a year. My living for the last decade depended on beeswax, and I fought the good fight all along with a goal to fall within a range of acceptable for my beeswax fans. Soy blends took up a lot of slack for people who feel safer burning a container candle. Plus soy blends appeal to the vegan buyers, so an entire market space opened up without doing any extra work. For soy, and soy blends, a bit of coconut wax, not coconut oil, has been a saving grace. It stays relatively stable, and when wicked well leaves a beautiful finish after production and after burning. Coconut wax contains it own set of stabilizers and emulsifiers, so the risk of overburdening the soy with loose oils is minimized greatly. I treat the coconut wax as I did paraffin to solve the shortcomings of most manufactured soy blends. At the end end of the day, Soy candle lovers don’t care a whole heck of a lot about the after burn finish. They just want a safe, good smelling candle that burns clean. If you don't mind my asking, which coconut wax do you use and in how much percentage? I have tried mixing 444 with 10% coconut/soy wax from Lab and Co and it was expensive. They DID look and smell great, but I wasn't sure it was worth the extra cost. Now after reading your words, I think it must be worth it! I know there is another company I have ordered coconut wax from, but at the time they were sold out -maybe it was Containers and Supplies? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
candlesinflorida Posted September 21, 2019 Share Posted September 21, 2019 On 9/17/2019 at 6:57 PM, NightLight said: I had a box of 464 stored away and decided to break it out and play with it. I am adding 2 per cent beeswax to smooth out the top EXCEPT I get a small circular ring crack! Now when the candle is lit and cooled there is no issue of cracks. I tried 150 down to 100 ( worse top). So now am thinking higher temp better result. Am I on the right track? Feel free to PM. Also this box of wax, I have had cavities happening as well. And frustrating it can be Candles poured at same time. What’s with that with this wax. I just posted a question about problems that involved 464 and 444. Not sure if this affects you as well, but in Florida in the summer I have found that 464 arrived "smushy". It just didn't look flaky and some of it was all chunky. The heat and rainy weather might have created problems in the summer transport. At the start of summer, I switched to 444 bc it has a higher melt point and I assume it can handle heat better. As for the cracks, the fact that they are in a ring makes me think that the temperature of the container is a factor. If the candle cools while warmer on the outside (near the glass, away from the wick) and then cools cooler on the inside (near the wick), the different temperatures could cause the inner to "separate" or shrink from the outer. Basically, a cold wick area and a warm glass area. I am wondering if you can create more consistency. Like maybe wick the jars early, do not heat the containers (if you are doing that), pour as close to room temp as possible, pour towards the wick to warm it up, pour slowly in gently circles around the wick. I know this sounds like a lot of overthought...but when I do slight variations like this, it drastically changes the outcome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallTayl Posted September 21, 2019 Share Posted September 21, 2019 39 minutes ago, candlesinflorida said: If you don't mind my asking, which coconut wax do you use and in how much percentage? I have tried mixing 444 with 10% coconut/soy wax from Lab and Co and it was expensive. They DID look and smell great, but I wasn't sure it was worth the extra cost. Now after reading your words, I think it must be worth it! I know there is another company I have ordered coconut wax from, but at the time they were sold out -maybe it was Containers and Supplies? Easybeads /coconut 83 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
candlesinflorida Posted September 22, 2019 Share Posted September 22, 2019 21 hours ago, TallTayl said: Easybeads /coconut 83 Thanks! You are always so helpful! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CandleRush Posted September 22, 2019 Share Posted September 22, 2019 I tested a few different percentages using 464 and Lab co coconut wax and settled on a 50/50 blend. The candles are smooth with EVERY burn down to your last burn. I first tried 80/20 blend, 464 at 80% and Lab co at 20%, cratering, uneven, just not to my liking. Ive also tried 40/60 and that worked well too. 50/50 is very is to calculate which is why I’m at that percentage.🌸 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
candlesinflorida Posted September 23, 2019 Share Posted September 23, 2019 23 hours ago, CandleRush said: I tested a few different percentages using 464 and Lab co coconut wax and settled on a 50/50 blend. The candles are smooth with EVERY burn down to your last burn. I first tried 80/20 blend, 464 at 80% and Lab co at 20%, cratering, uneven, just not to my liking. Ive also tried 40/60 and that worked well too. 50/50 is very is to calculate which is why I’m at that percentage.🌸 But I imagine this gets pretty expensive, right? Their slabs just seem so high per pound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CandleRush Posted September 23, 2019 Share Posted September 23, 2019 I’m not in this business as long as others here. They might say no wax is worth so and so. I justify the cost because I love coconut wax. I love Northwoods even more but at 24.00, 5 lbs. now that is a lot. Mixing it with 464 helps the overall cost plus I find they do work well together so far, we know that can change! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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