Yet another 6006 post, very frustrated, and very weak hot throw

[Laura C]

On 7/1/2019 at 8:38 PM, ErronB said:

That's also interesting you say about the cure time, I'm not as well versed as you with 6006, but I was under the impression that because it's 70% paraffin it wouldn't 'need' longer than a couple days, yet alone a matter of weeks!. I have tried a couple I've left alone for a few weeks and it has made no difference to me. I'll probably give up on this wax if Wick's Unlimited's tests don't come back with something decent (I'm about to send them a package to get them to help me). 

 

Ooh, ooh @ErronB if you do use the wick testing service at Wicks Unlimited would you mind to tell us about the experience? If you liked the service, if you'd use it again etc. you don't have to tell us your candle details. I just live a few miles away from them and I have been tempted many times to try their service but just never have.

 

I'm curious to know if anyone here on Craft Server has used their service. I need to search on here and see if I turn up any info.

[ErronB]

8 hours ago, bugtussle said:

I've used 6006 for 15 years. In 6 oz tins, I use cd 7 or 8 almost always. In 11 oz tureens, I double wick with z-32 or z-28. I always use 10% fo. We have done 100s of fundraisers and never had a problem. Some fos just don't throw so don't use them. We don't cure our candles but they might be stronger at 2 wks.  In 15 yrs, we have gotten 1 bad case of wax. You'll know if wax is bad, it won't burn. I used to buy fos direct from Agilex but now use fos from BCN, Aztec, Fragrance Buddy, WSP and Lone Star. I'm not sure you are using good fos.   IMHO
 

Thanks for your input  Much appreciated.  Haven't tried any BCN FO's yet, I'll give those a shot soon.

[bfroberts]

24 minutes ago, Laura C said:

 

Oh yes, I second that. 😄 I have found myself shouting obscenities at the YouTube screen and my husband doesn't know what's going on. LOL.

I occasionally fall down the YouTube rabbit hole watching one incredulous thing after another.  The epidemic of unsecured wicks kills me.  I may or may not have just commented on one doozy of a video.....
"People who don't know how to properly make candles shouldn't produce candle making tutorials."

Sigh.  I'm usually a very nice person.

 

[Laura C]

56 minutes ago, Laura C said:

 

Ooh, ooh @ErronB if you do use the wick testing service at Wicks Unlimited would you mind to tell us about the experience? If you liked the service, if you'd use it again etc. you don't have to tell us your candle details. I just live a few miles away from them and I have been tempted many times to try their service but just never have.

 

I'm curious to know if anyone here on Craft Server has used their service. I need to search on here and see if I turn up any info.

 

Yes, I found the post I was thinking of regarding Wicks Unlimited and @Island girl appears to be satisfied with their wicking service.

 

[Laura C]

31 minutes ago, bfroberts said:

I occasionally fall down the YouTube rabbit hole watching one incredulous thing after another.  The epidemic of unsecured wicks kills me.  I may or may not have just commented on one doozy of a video.....
"People who don't know how to properly make candles shouldn't produce candle making tutorials."

Sigh.  I'm usually a very nice person.

 

That's funny. And yes, when you go to sell a candle you must have the wick secured. What are they thinking? Just so happens today, I went back into my YouTube Video history and re-watched some of the videos I had watched in the past and had in mind that they were "good" and "helpful" but had to turn away in horror. LOL. Now that I have more experience and knowledge with candle making, proper candle making, I certainly view those videos in a totally different light. 🤣

Edited July 24, 2019 by Laura C

[TallTayl]

@strugglebrother  which candle testing services did you try?

[BusyBee]

On 7/13/2019 at 7:10 PM, ErronB said:

Just following up with my results after testing this. You're absolutely right 6006 does benefit from leaving it longer than a couple days, and the wick size you suggested was pretty much bang on right. Unfortunately it mushroomed like crap after the first hour at only 6% load, and did it the same with some other FO's I use too.

 

 I take my hat off to anyone who has found a wick that gives good HT and doesn't mushroom bad with 6006, I couldn't do it after spending months testing it, I'll be sticking with my other parasoy blends. Thanks for everyone's suggestions!

First of all, I take my hat off to you for your desire to succeed.  When I read your post mentioning Wicks Unlimited, I just knew that how hard you are working on this.

 

I see a big problem with you using 6006.  No matter what you do, you are not going to be satisfied with the result because you have played around with 464.  6006 might have given you little better CT, but it's going to be a lot inferior HT compare to 464.  May I ask why you have stopped using 464?  For your 8oz tin, I believe outside diameter of your tin container is 3 1/8 inch.  If that is right, then you might want to try ECO 16 trimmed to 1/8 inch with 10% fragrance oil load.  This is not going to be perfect, but very close.  Still, it is going to produce inferior HT compare to 464.    *ECO 16 is not going to work for your 8oz tin container with 464 wax.  

 

I don't know what's your definition of great candle, so I cannot say much.  But, you might want to consider talking to private label candle manufacturers and find out what they can offer.  This is one of the ways to learn about this industry.  Wicks Unlimited was another good way to approach, which you already did.  Also, check out Atkins & Pearce, Inc. website.  They are manufacturer of your HTP wick, and it will cost money to do wick test with them.  Also, I believe their minimum order is 10,000.  But, you should check them out.  Because they have a lot of interesting wicks that regular candle suppliers don't carry and a lot of useful information on their website.

 

As for the FOs, let me give you my experiences.  I walked into one supplier which carried about 70 FOs.  Out of 70 FOs, I found 4 that I liked.  Another supplier had about 180 different FOs.  Out of 180, I found none that I liked.  I keep ordering sample size FOs by mail order, but so far I only have 6 FOs in my product line.  In my opinion, finding the best FO is going to be life long search!  Did you know that there are about 3,000 different Rose fragrance oil available on the market?  I was lucky to find the right Rose FO from the 4th try.  What I am trying to say here is that sometimes it might not be your candle making technique that is not producing the right result.

 

Oh, try not to heat up the soy blend wax above 185 degree.  Soy wax will burn slightly, if you go above 185.  

 

Have fun on your journey!  I have feeling that you might surpass us in the feature with your kind of hard research and work.

[NightLight]

Here’s what I think about waxes. There are no perfect waxes. You may have to modify your waxes for the wicks. You may have to change waxes. There is no point of banging your head with a wax slab if the wax is giving you angst. There are so many waxes out there. I would take a breather get some sample waxes. You may have to blend and it does take time with the ratios and wicks but you can get I think what you want. Regarding fragrances, many of the companies have fragrances are for bath and body. Many of them do not work great for candles but they smell nice. I think 6006 is 4630 with soy. You could get some 4630 and pure soy and try you own ratios. You may find your wax happy place. 

[Laura C]

I agree with @BusyBee, Wicks Unlimited and Atkins & Pearce are both great sources for wick information. I order wicks from A&P and as mentioned they offer some wicks that other suppliers do not.

http://www.atkinsandpearce.com/candle-solutions/

https://wicksunlimited.com/

[TallTayl]

4 hours ago, BusyBee said:

  For your 8oz tin, I believe outside diameter of your tin container is 3 1/8 inch.  If that is right, then you might want to try ECO 16 trimmed to 1/8 inch with 10% fragrance oil load.  This is not going to be perfect, but very close.  Still, it is going to produce inferior HT compare to 464.    *ECO 16 is not going to work for your 8oz tin container with 464 wax.  

 

 

An eco 16 is a gigantic wick for either easy to burn soy blends or parasoy in a typical 8 oz tin. Parasoy with an eco 16 is playing with fire when using big sizes in an already hot wick series. 

 

 (And measure containers by the inside  diameter). If you need to trim to a nub before lighting, it’s most likely not the best wick choice for simple safety concerns. If someone forgets to trim exactly perfectly every time, what happens? If they power burn, what happens? 

 

The only caveat to this sizing experience is if the FO is an extremely difficult one to burn, even then test from top to bottom as a typical candle burner would, and keep that IR thermometer at the Ready to pinpoint how long before the tin becomes dangerously hot. 

[bfroberts]

Seriously.  This ^.
I urge anyone who finds this thread.....Do NOT put an Eco 16 in an 8oz tin.  I just spent MONTHS retesting wicks with 6006, and I tested very extensively with Eco.  A container that size is Eco 8 territory.  16 is a hazard.

[ErronB]

Thanks everyone for your input, I settled pretty quickly on 4627 after some tests. I absolutely hate the wax consistency and wicking is still a pain but with wood and HTP's it's doing pretty good so far. Almost got the 'take no prisoners' HT I wanted, but I still prefer my melts!

 

 

 

 

 

 

[strugglebrother]

On 7/24/2019 at 7:19 AM, TallTayl said:

@strugglebrother  which candle testing services did you try?

 

I have tried Precision Wicking (5,000 wicks minimum order) and Wicks Unlimited (10,000 wicks minimum order)

[Laura C]

1 hour ago, strugglebrother said:

 

I have tried Precision Wicking (5,000 wicks minimum order) and Wicks Unlimited (10,000 wicks minimum order)

 

So was it worth it?

You don't have to give details but did they solve your wick issues?

Did they teach you anything you didn't already know?

And I guess you sell your candles and can use that many wicks? 

At this point, it's just a hobby for me and that many wicks would last forever, LOL.

[strugglebrother]

On 8/8/2019 at 6:23 PM, Laura C said:

 

So was it worth it?

You don't have to give details but did they solve your wick issues?

Did they teach you anything you didn't already know?

And I guess you sell your candles and can use that many wicks? 

At this point, it's just a hobby for me and that many wicks would last forever, LOL.

 

Wicks Unlimited were better in that sense that I could actually speak directly to the two people who does all the testing..

They helped me test out the new IGI coconut paraffin wax 6570 and although they did find one wick series that burned well in that wax, it didn't give the throw I wanted but I think it's the wax itself that isn't that potent on it's own. At least not in my jars although I had better luck in tins.

They did find a great wick for my palm wax candles which we make for another store, I'm just waiting for the client to approve the wick. Then I might buy it, it will take me some time to go through 10,000 wicks but sometimes just having the help of finding a wick is worth some $$$ as you will have a good performing candle.

 

Precision wicking could find me two different wicks for two palm wax candles and I bought 5,000 of each. They couldn't find me any suitable wicks for any coconut blends I gave to them. We tried about 15 candles. I had loads of problems with their choices for that. I could also not speak to their testing team, the sales person only relayed the information from them

 

Both had great customer support... I can recommend both companies but it also shows that even with professional help and so many wicks to choose from, it's pretty hard to completely nail it. In my case, I also had a problematic tapered jar which was not helping.

 

As a reference, 5,000 wicks is about $300 and $10,000 is $600

 

So even if it's a hobby you could see it as an investment in making a better candle and understanding the jar and wax you have. You could team up with someone here on the forum also who uses the same jar and wax and do it together.

 

[Laura C]

16 minutes ago, strugglebrother said:

Both had great customer support... I can recommend both companies but it also shows that even with professional help and so many wicks to choose from, it's pretty hard to completely nail it. In my case, I also had a problematic tapered jar which was not helping.

 

Wow @strugglebrother, that's interesting and thanks so much for the info. That many wicks is not as expensive as I thought it would be. Well it's helpful and somewhat comforting to know that even the paid professionals can have a tough time figuring out a good performing wick. I don't feel quite so clueless now, LOL. Glad that they were able to help you with some of your wicking problems, that's fantastic. Good luck with your products.

[pughaus]

1 hour ago, strugglebrother said:

They couldn't find me any suitable wicks for any coconut blends I gave to them. We tried about 15 candles.

@strugglebrother Were these coconut blends they couldn't wick the ones currently available on the market or your own blends? 

[strugglebrother]

8 hours ago, pughaus said:

@strugglebrother Were these coconut blends they couldn't wick the ones currently available on the market or your own blends? 

 

I tried the IGI 6570/6046 alone and although we could get a good burning candle with it from top to bottom I was never happy with the hot throw, I thought it was weak. The wick that I saw that Candlescience is recommending for that wax is one that was concluded a total failure by Wicks Unlimited . But then again, CS is recommending what they already have in stock, as in... they are trying to shoehorn in whatever they have instead of stocking a better working wick for that wax.

 

Then I tried various blends with Coco83 and paraffin in different percentages with Precision Wicking but i mostly got WAY too much sooting for it being a sellable candle. Sometimes I had good throw, sometimes very weak. Conclusion was that I had the same problems as with soywax, the wax were way too fickly with fragrances to be able to become my house blend.

[lovelyscents]

I too tested the paracoco wax and did not like the throw enough to incorporate this into my blends.  This was as melts first with no wick variables to get a good feel for the wax and throw...no for me.

[JLee]

Just found this site. I too am frustrated with all waxes,wicks etc. I thinking of trying 6006 but don't want to waste tons of money. I typically use 8oz mason jars and ribbon wicks and FOs from CS  and Northwood Candle supply. Ive been using soy wax from Northwood and haven't been able to get good CT/HT.  I've tried the 464 and had nothing but issues. Been at this for several years and just cant get the right combination.  Can anyone give advise on whats the preferred wax and wicks. 

[TallTayl]

With ribbon wicks, which burn pretty darned hot compared to other traditional wicks, in that I’d be looking for a wax that is relatively hard to burn. C3 fits that bill well. C1 is a close second. 

 

[TallTayl]

With ribbon wicks, which burn pretty darned hot compared to other traditional wicks, in that I’d be looking for a wax that is relatively hard to burn. C3 fits that bill well. C1 is a close second. 

 

[JLee]

Thanks for the info. I haven't tried 6006..was thinking about trying it. I'm not stuck on the ribbon wicks just something i was trying. Any suggestions are greatly appreciated 

[KrisS]

On 7/1/2019 at 5:38 PM, ErronB said:

 however my results were different to yours as I used a decent load of FO and dye.

 

 

 

Have you thoroughly tested without the dye?

[CaptnKush]

I don't use 6006 so I don't know the wicking, but when I watched this and saw the wicking he used I thought this can't be right. All mushrooms and oversized wicks for those small jelly jars. Does he only use HTP or what? Well here it is