Issues with Candles

[Jim]

I have two issues currently when I am pouring my soy candles. 

 

1.  Almost all of them are sperating from the wick so there is a small hole most of the way down the candle.  I have played around with pour temperature from 145 down to 125 in 5 degree increments with the same results.  I am using Golden Brand AAK 464 wax and CD8 wicks.  Any ideas?

 

2.  Black Sea scent is creating massive lumps and holes in my candles.  I poured other right after this and no major issues.  I had to melt the tops 4 times to be able to get a somewhat smooth top.  Ideas?

 

Thanks!!

[bfroberts]

I'm not the best to help because I haven't used that wax in a long time.  But....a lot of waxes can be prone to holes around the wick, cavities, whatnot.  Sometimes they are visible, and sometimes they are hidden just beneath the surface.  The best prevention I've found is to find the optimal pour temp and cool as slowly as possible, but that isn't 100%.  I get holes with my waxes too, and although I'd like to think I can prevent them, I still poke holes in the surface of every single candle and do a repour.  Sometimes I find there is a hole there, sometimes not, but this way I am sure there are none in the finished candle.

 

As for your FO causing issues...I'm not sure. Sounds more like a pouring issue than an FO specific issue.   If you can give us details about your procedure, I'm sure someone can help.  

[Jim]

Okay good to know.  I will start poking holes no matter what and see what I find.

 

As for my procedure it's always the same.  I heat to 185° I add my fragrance right away, stir for about 2 minutes or more depending on batch size, and then I let cool.  I've been playing around with pour temperature but it seems by best is around 140°.

[TallTayl]

What kind of container?

 

to prevent holes in soy waxes I generally pour when it’s pretty cloudy, often on the verge of slushy. 

[Jim]

I am using a small 8oz. glass container holds 6 oz wax.

[TallTayl]

Ok. Glass can cool unevenly, causing holes.  You can try pouring hotter and cover the tops to minimize the chances of the top cooling and sealing over quicker than the center of the candle. You can also try heating the jars then pouring cool wax (cloudy almost slushy so 105* or so).  The hot jar will melt the outside as you pour to prevent jump lines. The wax will not cool as much or as rapidly since it’s already pretty cool which does not allow cavities to develop. 

 

I’d still get into the habit of poking holes to verify there are no cavities until you have the golden ticket figured out. Once you figure it out for these summer temps you will need to modify somewhat for winter. Room temp, air currents, humidity, etc. all play a role in how your candles cool.

[Jim]

Okay good information.  I will try pouring at 105 and seeing what happens.  Just an idea......I have some insulation board which is siding underlayment.  Do you think making a box with it and pouring them inside of there may help?  

 

Any suggestion on an easy way of heating jars.  Put them in the oven?  Sorry I'm still in my first two months so pretty new to all of this.

[NightLight]

When I was using 464, I got great results pouring hot. The tops would pour completely smooth. You have tried mid temps, try hotter.

[TallTayl]

3 hours ago, Jim said:

Okay good information.  I will try pouring at 105 and seeing what happens.  Just an idea......I have some insulation board which is siding underlayment.  Do you think making a box with it and pouring them inside of there may help?  

 

Any suggestion on an easy way of heating jars.  Put them in the oven?  Sorry I'm still in my first two months so pretty new to all of this.

The great thing about chandling is all the experimenting. Learn the rules, then test them. Break them when you discover something that works better thereby creating new rules.

 

for heating jars, the easiest way I found when making testers is hot water. I soak in hot (soapy if needed) water while I prep everything.  Then dry, add a wick on a wick sticker and pour.  

 

To test the draft hypothesis, a pour pot turned over the candle as it cools can answer a lot. You don’t want to slow the cool so much that the soy grows grains.  If you need more space, a rubbermade type tub with blankets or towels insulating it will work also.  I have made simple heat sinks using stone tile. Soaked them in hot water, then placed on the table, filled the candles, topped with the overturned tub. For short runs this works well enough. For any sort of production work, it’s not so efficient. 

 

You need the top of the wax to not cool before the middle has shrunken.  Depending on the ambient conditions in the room, pouring hot might help or it may create worse cavities deeper within the candle. I poured a set of a dozen soy tins last night at 180.  This morning. they all had giant cavities 1/4” from the bottom where the countertop sucked the heat out quicker than the sides and top cooled. So you never know until you try a few hundred 🤗🤣

[Karen Ov]

I'm still having some trouble with this issue to . I have learned and i think I read it on here, to pour your wax down the wick  that has helped to a point. My tops will come out so smooth on top but after I burn them there usually is a hole after it hardens again. I also put them on a wire rack , wrap a lite little thin towel around them and put fat popsicle sticks on the top ...but still working on these methods . I have only been making candles since march..  it also has helped with  glass adhesion to ..And fo's with a lot of vanillin in them seem to give me a hard time..  

[RedRoomGraduate]

On 6/26/2019 at 7:43 PM, NightLight said:

When I was using 464, I got great results pouring hot. The tops would pour completely smooth. You have tried mid temps, try hotter.

 

Yes. Pouring hot does the trick for me as well. I typically pour 464 at 150 or so, but I've poured as hot as 175ish when not paying attention and still had tops that were super smooth. This is just anecdotal, but I really believe the super viscous fragrances (Black Sea is one of them, lots of vanillin in that one) do a lot better mixed in hot and poured hot. 

[Jim]

Awesome thanks for all the suggestions everyone!  Next question, after I pour it does it matter if i move it around at all?  Would this help with adhering to wick or just cause more problems?

[The Candle Nook]

I use 464 and always pour hot. I have 1 FO (can’t remember which one right now 🙄 it’s a winter candle) that always has crappy tops. No matter what I do. Have just decided that when I pour that one I use a heat gun to smooth the tops. It has always just been a cosmetic issue. 

[Jim]

On 7/1/2019 at 5:30 PM, RedRoomGraduate said:

 

Yes. Pouring hot does the trick for me as well. I typically pour 464 at 150 or so, but I've poured as hot as 175ish when not paying attention and still had tops that were super smooth. This is just anecdotal, but I really believe the super viscous fragrances (Black Sea is one of them, lots of vanillin in that one) do a lot better mixed in hot and poured hot. 

Thanks I poured 5 at 160 and had perfect tops!  Will see if it's that FO only or all of them.  

[TallTayl]

I would poke holes down to the bottom and around wicks to check for cavities when pouring soy hot. 

[Jim]

On 6/26/2019 at 10:23 PM, TallTayl said:

The great thing about chandling is all the experimenting. Learn the rules, then test them. Break them when you discover something that works better thereby creating new rules.

 

for heating jars, the easiest way I found when making testers is hot water. I soak in hot (soapy if needed) water while I prep everything.  Then dry, add a wick on a wick sticker and pour.  

 

To test the draft hypothesis, a pour pot turned over the candle as it cools can answer a lot. You don’t want to slow the cool so much that the soy grows grains.  If you need more space, a rubbermade type tub with blankets or towels insulating it will work also.  I have made simple heat sinks using stone tile. Soaked them in hot water, then placed on the table, filled the candles, topped with the overturned tub. For short runs this works well enough. For any sort of production work, it’s not so efficient. 

 

You need the top of the wax to not cool before the middle has shrunken.  Depending on the ambient conditions in the room, pouring hot might help or it may create worse cavities deeper within the candle. I poured a set of a dozen soy tins last night at 180.  This morning. they all had giant cavities 1/4” from the bottom where the countertop sucked the heat out quicker than the sides and top cooled. So you never know until you try a few hundred 🤗🤣

I have found pouring hot gets me perfect tops and not finding many cavities.  I've been reading that adding FO at that high of temperature in soy wax is affecting my hot throw.  Would you recommend adding at 120 and then pouring and just fix the tops?  Thoughts?

[TallTayl]

Everything depends upon your wax in your containers. I found no ht or ct difference adding my fragrance at 185 or lower.  I have found with many waxes that the potential for seeping of fragrance (syneresis)  became higher at low temperatures.  This was especially true for natural waxes. That point was super important to me as I sell at outdoor venues in hot Chicago summers. And I ship worldwide. Syneresis is a big safety issue in my mind.

[RedRoomGraduate]

8 hours ago, Jim said:

I have found pouring hot gets me perfect tops and not finding many cavities.  I've been reading that adding FO at that high of temperature in soy wax is affecting my hot throw.  Would you recommend adding at 120 and then pouring and just fix the tops?  Thoughts?

 

I personally wouldn't. You will not "burn off" fragrance adding it to wax that's under 200ºF. Fragrance oil is formulated specifically to be burned. Adding it low, the fragrance may not bind with the wax, risking seepage and/or poor throw. 

[Pam W]

On 7/6/2019 at 1:57 PM, Jim said:

Thanks I poured 5 at 160 and had perfect tops!  Will see if it's that FO only or all of them.  

Any particular reason as to why you are working with soy wax???????

[Kerven]

Is that the Black Sea from Candlescience? If so, that FO has given me trouble with air pockets in the past.

[CandleMaker3D]

When I make candles in jars using soy I use a heat gun to go around the top. Got a $20 one off a website and had it shipped to myself.

 

As long as you keep it even and go around the top in a circular motion it's pretty easy to do and/or use.

 

Not sure on the scents though and how that will effect it though.