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6% vs higher %'s?


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Just got my first candle tested.  6% FO RE Bird of Paradise, 464 wax, CD 18 wick.   12 ounce jar, 9 ounce wax.  Burned exactly right according to what I see recommended.  (FO put in at 185 degrees as suggested by manufacturer of wax).  Two week cure.

 

I thought CT and HT were decent (not omg wow).   But noticed HT a lot more when I would first walk in the store.   Customers definitely liked it.  They definitely saw the similarity to the national brand (that I used to sell in my retail stores).  Tested 2 candles.  After testing the 2nd one half way, put out 4 candles for sale, which sold quickly.

 

Could 6% FO be optimal?  I've read a higher FO% doesn't necessarily yield a higher HT?  This customer that makes candles came in and said "just make a 12% one, don't bother with the 6%. But they said it smelled good and asked for FO, which I gave them.    I think they make candles more for fun than to sell.  Wondering if I should even try a higher %?

 

 

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I'd never use 12%. That's a total waste of money when 6% or even 8% is working just fine. This is why we test. I have yet to work with any wax that required or needed 12%. Also, not all waxes have the ability to hold that high a FO load anyway. Check your wax manufacturers recos for the FO % load.

 

6% is the standard. That doesn't mean you have to use it. But most candle waxes work with it. Some need more and others less. A lot will also depend on the type of wax and the FO itself. 

 

I once had a candlemaker tell me they always use 2oz of FO per lb of wax. I found out she was using palm wax. Palm wax just does not hold 12%. It is overloaded and the candle will smoke like a chimney. Don't even get me started on what it does to the wick and your pocketbook. I am currently using 5% FO load in my palm candles and they smell better with a lighter load than 6%.

 

So, the point is always test. Start out with the manufacturers recommendations, then tweak the % from there per FO. You will find some need a little more or a little less.

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7 minutes ago, syntheaahh said:

@Candybee thank you for this. I know in a lot of FB groups they always say 12%. 

 

Think of it this way. Why spend the extra money on FO you don't need? If you want to run a candle biz and stay in it wasting expensive FO is a good way to ruin your biz. Besides, don't always listen to what is said on the FB. A lot of those groups have that follow the leader syndrome. If someone repeats something and it keeps getting repeated it has a habit of becoming written in stone law. 

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17 minutes ago, Candybee said:

 

Think of it this way. Why spend the extra money on FO you don't need? If you want to run a candle biz and stay in it wasting expensive FO is a good way to ruin your biz. Besides, don't always listen to what is said on the FB. A lot of those groups have that follow the leader syndrome. If someone repeats something and it keeps getting repeated it has a habit of becoming written in stone law. 

agree with you on this! And when you dont go towards the norm, you could get bullied.

Plus, like you said above too, too much FO could cause problems too

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I totally agree with @Candybee, she said it perfectly. I go as high as 7% with my paraffin, because that seems to be the FO sweet spot. Any more and the burn gets UGLY, less than 6% I'm not happy with the CT. Palm wax I use 5-6%, and for most FOs that is more than enough for great HT and CT. 

Why burn money, especially if it doesn't even make a better product?

That being said, I don't have much experience with soy wax, so that might be a different story. But even then, 12% just seems a ridiculous amount.

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I have never found that using more than 6% yielded a more fragrant candle.  All it ever gave me was a wicking problem.  BUT I use 6006.  Haven't used 464 in a really long time.  I might could see going up to 7 or 8% but 12% is just nuts.  People who are using that much FO need to learn more about making candles, IMO. 
Don't get me started on FB people.  That place is full of what not to do.

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18 hours ago, NightLight said:

When I go higher than 6 then I get oily spots in warm weather.

 

This!!!!!! I hate cleaning up oil slicks on candle tops in high heat weather. Happened once and since I cut back hasn't happened since. And that was with just 6% FO load!! Mostly my vanillas but the pumpkin did it too and another I can't remember.

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I'm just staying with the 6%.         If customers like it enough to buy based on smell of burning candle, I think that's good enough.   My 3 employees all agreed that it should be made as is and put out to sell ... that ht was good.   Plus the burn is right, no flames or tunneling.  I'm more concerned the candle doesn't catch fire or tunnel.  

 

Now to test more fo's.   I don't use any dyes.   Using same container, wick to start ....  how likely is it to have similar results?   In other words, how much does the specific FO affect the outcome?

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On 6/9/2019 at 6:18 PM, syntheaahh said:

@Candybee thank you for this. I know in a lot of FB groups they always say 12%. 

Exactly and you'll even see this sort of thing from some of the larger candle makers.  Windy Hill states that they use 11% FO in all of their candles while "most other candles contain 2-5% FO".   Fist of all, while I'm sure there are some posts out there regarding using less than 6% the majority of posts I've read indicate that people are using 6-8.  Secondly, while I'm new to this I've already learned that the same FO % is not going to work for all wax/scent/container combinations and more is not necessarily better.

Capture.JPG

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Percentage of FO stated by that candle company is so bogus.  2% of a few of my blends will blow the doors off of 12% of some retail. 

 

Remember that ALL fragrance oils are different. All will wick different. Each one needs to be tested from start to finish as a normal candle customer would burn, then power burned. Performance can change over time especially with natural waxes. Making safe, dependable candles is not a race. If you really want to see how well your candles are made, send some out to random acquaintance and ask for the containers back at the end. 

 

All labs use different aromachemicals to achieve the similar end scent. All use different carriers. Each will change how your wick fares through the life of a candle. Some carriers will make soy candles turn to mush while burning, which is not noticeable until the mush turns all liquid in the blink of an eye. More carrier oils only gives headaches as far as melt behavior, adhesion, syneresis, etc. 

 

ever want to buy some of those FB expert candles and burn for yourself? I’ve been a secret shopper for years. Most are Appalling. Very few are really all that. I keep my findings to myself and just take good mental notes, lol. 

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On 6/13/2019 at 12:47 PM, Dirt Roads said:

Now to test more fo's.   I don't use any dyes.   Using same container, wick to start ....  how likely is it to have similar results?   In other words, how much does the specific FO affect the outcome?

 

In my experience, each FO has the potential to effect the melt and burn greatly and therefore may require a different size wick or even another type of wick. I know it's not what you want to hear but there it is, LOL. I wish there was 1 magic wick that could be used in all and every candle. 😃

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Just found some reviews on Windy Hill on Yelp https://www.yelp.com/biz/windy-hill-farms-candle-factory-port-crane

Seems they get 2 1/2 stars out of a possible 4 based on 4 reviews. Not anything said about the candles except the fragrance permeates the candy and makes it inedible. To me, this is a giant red flag. If you are clueless about the scents rendering the candy to taste like the candles and ultimately disgusting tasting you're not running a very good or efficient business. Based on this I would guess that the candles smoke but not having tried one its just a guess. 

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22 hours ago, TallTayl said:

 

ever want to buy some of those FB expert candles and burn for yourself? I’ve been a secret shopper for years. Most are Appalling. Very few are really all that. I keep my findings to myself and just take good mental notes, lol. 

I posted some pics the other day of some candles that I saw at a local craft/antique multi vendor type thing.  I had a Macintosh apple in a jar just like theirs so I bought their version just to do a comparison.  After 4 hours burning in our bedroom with the doors closed you could barely smell the one I bought.  The next day I lit mine (6%)  and even with the doors closed you could smell it all throughout the house....and I don't even know what I'm doing yet.  She sure had some pretty labels though.  

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21 hours ago, Candybee said:

Has anyone tried one of those Windy Hill candles with the 11% FO load? It's hard to imagine a company that wants to stay in business over fragrancing their candles as a sales point. To each his own.

Back around 2005 or so I bought several of their candles and actually visited their shop.  At that point you could buy 8 oz jar candles from them for 5.95 and a lot of the time get them BOGO.  The candles I bought from them were actually fairly strong  but I only bought a few scents and all 8 oz jars.

 

20 hours ago, Karen M said:

@Candybee Yes I agree, they should keep the candlemaking in a separate spot, I wouldn't want to taste candles either.😝

Yummy!  https://www.etsy.com/shop/CandlelitDesserts

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There are just so many variables - every situation is different in regards to what each of us uses - the wax or wax/blend, wicking, jar size and shape, environmental issue, etc etc etc - that is why what works for me might not work for you

 

That being said, I was told by someone many years ago that if any FO was not strong enough for me at 6% then just forget it and move on to one of the other FOs that are out there - and there are a million others that are out there! - plus there is the economics of it - that $15 bottle used at 6% is a $30 bottle at 12% - I think you find some knock-your-socks-off higher end FOs might actually be cheaper because you use less

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On 6/9/2019 at 5:50 PM, Dirt Roads said:

Just got my first candle tested.  6% FO RE Bird of Paradise, 464 wax, CD 18 wick.   12 ounce jar, 9 ounce wax.  Burned exactly right according to what I see recommended.  (FO put in at 185 degrees as suggested by manufacturer of wax).  Two week cure.

Is that the 12 oz status jar you are using?  It's 12 oz holding 9 oz of wax, 3" diameter.  I'm finding that depending on scent either CD 16 or 18 wicks are what is working  for me with these jars, which is a far cry from the CD 10 I started with.  I get pretty good HT with most of the scents (6%) I've tested so far except for FC's lavender.  Of course, I'm also using 6006 so that could be the difference.

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5 hours ago, xxxAlpha71xxx said:

Is that the 12 oz status jar you are using?  It's 12 oz holding 9 oz of wax, 3" diameter.  I'm finding that depending on scent either CD 16 or 18 wicks are what is working  for me with these jars, which is a far cry from the CD 10 I started with.  I get pretty good HT with most of the scents (6%) I've tested so far except for FC's lavender.  Of course, I'm also using 6006 so that could be the difference.

 

Yes that the exact jar I'm using.  I'm staying with this jar and formula.  Put out 12 more and they sold.   Customers think it has a good hot throw in the store (they don't call it hot throw).   I have 8 curing. (omg this pics are huge)  Wax looks funny in that 2nd picture but it's the same candle, guess it's the angle.  I'm staying with the 6%.  Now to get a couple more fragrances.  I have lotions and soaps in 5 fragrances and I have a masculine scent I plan on doing tonight.   I would like to get 6 fragrances, plus 2 or 3 Christmas scents.   Hopefully I can get it done by September/October.    So back to testing.

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13 hours ago, Dirt Roads said:

 

Yes that the exact jar I'm using.  I'm staying with this jar and formula.  Put out 12 more and they sold.   Customers think it has a good hot throw in the store (they don't call it hot throw).   I have 8 curing. (omg this pics are huge)  Wax looks funny in that 2nd picture but it's the same candle, guess it's the angle.  I'm staying with the 6%.  Now to get a couple more fragrances.  I have lotions and soaps in 5 fragrances and I have a masculine scent I plan on doing tonight.   I would like to get 6 fragrances, plus 2 or 3 Christmas scents.   Hopefully I can get it done by September/October.    So back to testing.

Looking at the bottom of that jar I'm seeing the exact same issue, with like a big air bubble on one side or sometimes both sides.  I was able to get rid of it by heating my oven to 170 degrees, sticking the candles in, then turning the oven off and letting the candles cool as the oven cools.  That's just not feasible if/when I get to the point where I'm trying to make more than a few candles at a time. Let me know if you find a cure and I'll do the same 

 

Here's a pic of candle that was made with the oven cooling.

IMG_20190620_102704884.jpg

Edited by xxxAlpha71xxx
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30 minutes ago, TallTayl said:

Depending on where you get the glass it could just be the way it was molded. I’ve got some that I popped out the candle from commercial and they’re  tapered like that at the bottom.

That's what I would have thought otherwise, and it may very well be but I've seen that exact same thing on some of the status jars that I've put together.  Sometimes on one side, sometimes on the other, sometimes on both.  The jars I'm using do have a slight curve in the bottom-but only on one side, with the glass curving up from one side to the other.  I've often wondered if this one sided curve was causing some of my issues.

IMG_20190620_122335787.jpg

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