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bktolbert

CPOP Question

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Hi all,

 

Thanks to your helpful advice, I've successfully made soap I'm proud of! I've ditched the hot process method for cold process oven process (CPOP for short, I believe.) However, I'm still somewhat confused about the proper way to do things. I've seen people pre-heat their oven to 175F, turn it off, then leave the soap in overnight or until the oven is cooled. I've seen others keep the soap at 175 until they visibly see the soap transition through the gel stage. I know it's probably preference, but which way do you do it and why?

 

Also, I've had some soaps volcano in the oven and others that haven't. I have been playing around with formulations, so I don't know if it's a specific ingredient causing this to happen or if it's because I allow the lye solution to cool completely for some and not others. Wondering what may be the culprit...

 

Thanks again for all the help so far (esp. Sponiebr).

IMG_20190510_232055.jpg

Edited by bktolbert
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That's great you've had successful batches! 😁 So satisfying, right?

I just turn on the light in my oven while I'm making my soap, and stick my loafs in after I pour them. I used to set it to 175 and turn it off right before I put them in, but for most of my soaps it was was overkill. But I soap pretty warm, around 100 degrees because I use a lot of solid fats, and I generally use full water too. Just having the light on keeps everything nice and warm without being too hot.

I'll pull my molds out after a few hours, and let them sit wrapped in a towel on the counter for another day or so.

HTH!

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You don’t need a lot of heat with that soap mold. I have same one. Using the light in oven should be fine. Another trick is I use a polypropylene cutting board for under those silicone molds then place on sheet pan inside oven. The polypropylene board retain heat so as soap heats up, the board does to and encourages gel.

The soap bars in that mold are not thick so you should not have issue getting gel.

 

When you soap the loaf molds more heat is handy as the soap is larger and thicker in those molds.

 

in silicon make sure you use some sodium lactate, it makes the bars harder and easier to remove from molds.

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Problems with volcanos with soap can happen with your formula. Too many hard oils. Stick to easy formula to learn at first then you can break the rules.

 

from The Spruce Crafts

Sandy Maine of SunFeather Natural Soap Company is the author of "The Soap Book." Her basic recipe for all the varieties of soap in her book is just three oils:

  • 48 percent Crisco
  • 25 percent olive oil
  • 25 percent coconut oil

That's right—no palm oil, no castor oil—just those three oils, and it's really very good soap. It doesn't have quite the heavy, creamy lather that adding castor oil gives. It's a lighter lather, but quite plentiful—perfectly respectable soap.

It's a great recipe to get started with soap making because these oils should be readily available and make a good option for a grocery store soap. The Crisco, and the absence of castor oil, also make this a great recipe to learn how to swirl with—because it will be slow to come to trace.

The formula for Crisco has changed since the early 2000s. It now incorporates a fair amount of hydrogenated palm oil, which is good for making soap. If you're using Crisco, be sure to know what kind you are using and and adjust your lye calculator accordingly. Most lye calculators have a setting for "old Crisco" and "new Crisco." If your label lists "hydrogenated palm oil" as one of the ingredients, use the "new Crisco" setting. The recipe below is formulated using "new Crisco."

 

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On 5/11/2019 at 2:58 PM, Sarah S said:

That's great you've had successful batches! 😁 So satisfying, right?

I just turn on the light in my oven while I'm making my soap, and stick my loafs in after I pour them. I used to set it to 175 and turn it off right before I put them in, but for most of my soaps it was was overkill. But I soap pretty warm, around 100 degrees because I use a lot of solid fats, and I generally use full water too. Just having the light on keeps everything nice and warm without being too hot.

I'll pull my molds out after a few hours, and let them sit wrapped in a towel on the counter for another day or so.

HTH!

Tbh, I think I need to stick with full water too. At least until I get some more practice.

 

Do you spray the tops with alcohol, which I think I've read somewhere to prevent... something (soda ash?)

On 5/12/2019 at 10:02 AM, NightLight said:

You don’t need a lot of heat with that soap mold. I have same one. Using the light in oven should be fine. Another trick is I use a polypropylene cutting board for under those silicone molds then place on sheet pan inside oven. The polypropylene board retain heat so as soap heats up, the board does to and encourages gel.

The soap bars in that mold are not thick so you should not have issue getting gel.

 

When you soap the loaf molds more heat is handy as the soap is larger and thicker in those molds.

 

in silicon make sure you use some sodium lactate, it makes the bars harder and easier to remove from molds.

That's a great tip! I'll be looking for those boards.

Also, thank you for the recipe!

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91 per cent alcohol. Use a spray bottle you can get in cosmetic area, versus the big ones like at Home Depot. Mist one pass, don’t soak.

Stick  with one recipe until you get comfortable with it. You will be able to what happens if you soap cooler or warmer, and what different fragrances do to 5e soap batter. Get fragrances that won’t cause you issues like soap on a stick!

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On 5/10/2019 at 11:34 PM, bktolbert said:

Hi all,

 

Thanks to your helpful advice, I've successfully made soap I'm proud of! I've ditched the hot process method for cold process oven process (CPOP for short, I believe.) However, I'm still somewhat confused about the proper way to do things. I've seen people pre-heat their oven to 175F, turn it off, then leave the soap in overnight or until the oven is cooled. I've seen others keep the soap at 175 until they visibly see the soap transition through the gel stage. I know it's probably preference, but which way do you do it and why?

 

Also, I've had some soaps volcano in the oven and others that haven't. I have been playing around with formulations, so I don't know if it's a specific ingredient causing this to happen or if it's because I allow the lye solution to cool completely for some and not others. Wondering what may be the culprit...

 

Thanks again for all the help so far (esp. Sponiebr).


Glad I actually was able to help! 

Volcanoing is a direct result of water content. The fat profile of your soap can cause it to heat up when using it at RT, but in CPOP that's also a water content issue.

So, you can go with a lower water content, say 30% and that should help reduce if not completely eliminate the volcanoing for CPOP. (for the record I don't do CPOP very often, but I have done it many times) 

About the Crisco... (Shudder) Crisco is hydrogenated Soybean Oil which is basically GUARANTEED DOS...  I swear canola and soybean oil are the 2 most consistently DOS'n oils I have EVER used. I actually LIKE a little canola oil in my formulation from time to time but I WILL NOT use it anymore because they ALWAYS get DOS.

There's nothing wrong with palm oil, to be perfectly honest the coconut oil is FAR MORE likely to volcano on you over the palm. Coconut oil gets HOT very QUICKLY , and, more importantly, it gets HARD very quickly... (split loaves, and EXPLOSIVE volcanoing)   I think I've posted my formulation that uses the Walmart Great Value Shortening... That formulation was made so that ANYONE in the US could buy ALL of their fats from Walmart or a Grocery Store. Bake Rite is the brand of shortening that is the same as the GV animal and veg shortening. For the castor oil part, up until 3 weeks ago when Bulk had a sale, I was using Humco Castor oil in the little 6 ounce bottles. Obviously, it's cheaper to buy it by the gallon (e.g.: 7 lbs jug), but the Humco castor oil works PERFECTLY well, and it's not horrifically expensive from Walmart. 


Another gel inducing method that you can do it wrap it up in an electric blanket. (If it volcanoes though... IJS...) If your oven can go down to 150 I'd go with that temperature if I could. 

3 other ingredients can heat soap up by simply being present. 

1. Milk or dairy (That's a SURE BET EVERY TIME) 
2. Honey (It is also another one that always seems to heat the hell out of soap) 
3. TD. YEP titanium dioxide will heat the soap up REALLY REALLY HOT and REALLY REALLY fast. (It's why you get glycerin rivers with TD) 

If you can eliminate any or all of those you can definitely make a cooler acting soap. 

High CO content soap WILL HEAT UP. Lard also heats up pretty good as I recall... 

HTH!

Slainte, 
Sponiebr
The Executor of Bad Ideas and Sundry Services. 

Edited by Sponiebr
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To learn soapmaking without spending a fortune, crisco is not a bad method. As you know learning can get costly. It’s all about access!

The Walmart sounds good too if you are close to one otherwise you have to order.

 

Yes also agreed milk, sugar, honey you will have issues with overheating so as a newbie avoid these additives.

 

You can buy castor oil on eBay quart size, or places like Saveoncitric.

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BTW the Wallie world shortening, and Bakerite are made from BEEF ANIMAL and is NOT vegetable. So no vegan veggie soap with that!

 

You can create a simple three oil soap with castor oil for bubble 5 %, coconut oil 76, high oleic sunflower oil or olive oil. Play with the number on soap calc.

 

This is from Brambleberry

 

Basic Cold Process Recipe (Super fat 5%): 
8 oz. Coconut Oil (24%)
15 oz. Olive Oil (44%)
11 oz. Palm Oil (32%)
4.8 oz. Lye
11.2 oz. Distilled Water

This recipe is comprised of coconut oilpalm oil and olive oil. These three oils are some of the most common in soap making, and all offer something different to handmade soap. To learn more about properties of various common soap making oils, check out this blog post. Coconut and palm oil both give the soap firmness. Olive oil gives soap a mild and creamy lather. Coconut oil is very cleansing in nature, and gives the soap a large lather.

A very common soaping recipe is 33% coconut oil, 34% olive oil and 33% palm oil. Some people feel that soap containing more than 25-30% coconut oil is drying. This is a personal preference, but this recipe was formulated to accommodate sensitive skins. The olive oil was increased to ensure the bars are gentle. This recipe contains a 5% superfat. This means that 5% of the oils in this recipe were not turned into soap, and are “free floating” in the soap. In other words, this recipe contains 5% less lye than necessary to turn 100% of the oils into soap.

To learn more about formulating your cold process recipes, check out this blog post. The How to Substitute Oil in Cold Process Recipes also has some great information for formulating your own cold process recipes. Now, let’s get started making soap!

 

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1 hour ago, NightLight said:

BTW the Wallie world shortening, and Bakerite are made from BEEF ANIMAL and is NOT vegetable. So no vegan veggie soap with that!

 

You can create a simple three oil soap with castor oil for bubble 5 %, coconut oil 76, high oleic sunflower oil or olive oil. Play with the number on soap calc.

 

Yep the 2 shortenings are indeed beef tallow and palm oil blends. 

And just to clarify the simple 3 oil soap you mentioned not more than adding 5% castor oil, and then 76F  Coconut Oil, High Oleic Sunflower oil, or Olive oil? 


 

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Yes you can do simple three oil soap. I like sunflower oil as it has the same properties as olive oil but you won’t get the green tinge as you do with olive. People love the soap. Soap does not have to be complicated in formula to be great, and also it’s a rinse off product so I would rather be using the expensive oils and butters for lotions and creams.

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